The Powers of Kundalini, Interview Shri Mataji with Stephen Taylor 1990-03-16
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16 March 1990
Interview
Burwood Ashram, Sydney (Australia)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) - Reviewed
The Power of kundalini (Interview) Shri Mataji with Stephen Taylor, Friday, March 16, 1990
Stephen Taylor: Shri Mataji, what is Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Sahaja. Saha means ‘with’. Ja means ‘born’. So it is born with you.’ The right’ to become ‘united,’ which is the yoga with the Divine.
Stephen Taylor: And this Sahaja Yoga is something that everybody can have, is it? Is something everybody can practice?
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Stephen Taylor: And how does this connection with the Divine take place?
Shri Mataji: We have within ourselves this power in the triangular bone which is called a ‘Sacrum’ meaning sacred, which when awakened sprouts like a primule in a seed, and rises through six subtle centres, opens out the last centre and gets connected with the Divine, which is the subtle energy all around us, which organizes us, or which nourishes us, does all the living work. Above all it loves us.
Interviewer: Does this mean, Shri Mataji, that people who have not had the ability to practice Sahaja Yoga are not connected with the Divine?
Shri Mataji: Most of them are not. And if some of them are, they don’t know all about it.
Interviewer: So this is what, an extra force that is available to human beings to develop themselves in this world?
Shri Mataji: Of course. This is the last breakthrough of our evolution, where you have to get connected with the Divine. You have to feel it on your central nervous system and that’s how you get your Self-realization.
Interviewer: Do I perceive here that this is a way of balancing oneself, of keeping in such a way - of living one’s life in such a way that one is not unbalanced in one’s view of what is going on around us?
Shri Mataji: Yes. We have two sides in our system of the autonomous nervous system, left and right, which we call as left and right sympathetic nervous system.
Left side caters for our emotions, for our past, our desires. The right side caters for our action, physical and mental. If you indulge into one too much and go too far with it, you develop an imbalance within yourself.
In the centre lies the third power which we call as parasympathetic nervous system. This is the channel which is the central path of ascent.
When the Kundalini rises through it, it brings you in the balance because it rises in the centre of the system. So this is the minimum that happens, that you develop your balance.
Interviewer: So how does one actually achieve this balance?
Shri Mataji: It just happens spontaneously.
Interviewer: In other words, there is no physical requirement on an individual?
Shri Mataji: Not at all. Not at all. It’s an evolutionary step as I told you; in our evolution, we have developed a balance, we can stand on our two legs. Animals cannot.
In the same way, you develop this special balance between your emotions and your actions in a very proper way.
Interviewer: You speak as though this is some sort of evolutionary step.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is. It is the last breakthrough, that you have to become the Spirit now. And this has to be achieved, which can be achieved only through a living process because we have become human beings through a living process and that living process has to act within us.
Interviewer: This sounds as though it is rather a significant time then in the history of humanity.
Shri Mataji: Very much. In the history of humanity, in the history of evolution, in the history of spirituality, it’s the most important time because here, where you will get what Heaven has been promised to you so far.
Interviewer: So it is no accident that Sahaja Yoga has appeared in the world at this time?
Shri Mataji: No, not at all, not at all. It is all predicted thousands of years back in India and later on by many saints. Even William Blake has predicted it.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, you went to Russia last year and I believe the reception you got was most surprising.
Shri Mataji: Yes. I was myself surprised, because thousands of people came. And very sensible, well-educated people came and they all settled down. Thousands. I did not know how to cope with that number because there were so many. And even the members of the supreme council, the government, they came. I could only say that in the so-called free societies we waste too much time experimenting with our freedom, and indulge too much into politics which is a waste thing, I think. Then economics, all these things.
While the people there did not have any such chances. So they put their energies to something that was higher than that. They diverted and they were very knowledgeable, they knew a lot about seeking.
They knew a lot about Kundalini and as if they were just waiting for me. It was very remarkable.
Interviewer: Mr Gorbachev has said the Russian requires a mental revolution. Do you see the acceptance of Sahaja Yoga as part of this revolution?
Shri Mataji: Of course. He himself is a saint and what he is meaning by ‘mental’, that they should now understand that they have to develop that balance between communism and democracy.
Our democracies are imbalanced. They are one-sided. They have not the other side of collectivity, but communism has collectivity, it is power-oriented. Our democracies are money-oriented. What he is meaning is the maturity of our wisdom.
Interviewer: So referring back to what we were talking about earlier, is it... [Audio interruption during interview] Okay. As we were talking about earlier about bringing the human body into balance, could we say then that Mr Gorbachev is bringing the whole Eastern Bloc into balance?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Yes, they had gone too much on one side and he is trying to bring them in the centre.
Interviewer: You mentioned that you went to an Eastern Bloc conference last year and I believe you gave many influential people, Realization.
Is it true that you believe that this was instrumental in helping the overthrow of oppressive communism?
Shri Mataji: It was a yoga, yoga seminar and I expected all of them to be there. And surprisingly I talked to them hardly for 30 to 35 minutes and then I gave them realization and all of them got it. They were representatives from all the Eastern Bloc Countries. When they got it they were so surprised at it, then they walked out with me out of the hall and nobody was left in the hall to listen to other people.
They gave me their addresses and they said, “We want this only in our country”, and they wanted to start centres and I am told they have already started centres.
The all-pervading power requires a medium to trigger something, and when these people were created as Realized souls, as they got connected with this ‘all-pervading power’, I think they triggered it.
They had that confidence within them, that courage in them, because once you are realized, you become very courageous, and you want to establish truth at any cost.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, the West, shall we call it the Western nations have had Sahaja Yoga available to them to investigate, to see for themselves how it worked, for 20 years, and yet it has been very slow to grow.
Why has it happened this way, do you think?
Shri Mataji: Here people have so many diverse ideas about things. They are very self-opinionated also about things and the so-called man-made religions all over have also conditioned them too much.
They have other conditioning of different norms that they have as far as the social life is concerned and the physical appearances, rather on a very superficial level. So the people have not grown, I think so, much deeper.
Of course, I must say there are so many seekers in the West, so many seekers.
And they were lost because as soon as people knew that there’s a market for them, the false gurus jumped out, and they started preaching about false things just to earn money. They were all money-oriented people.
Now there’s another psychology with the western mind that you must buy everything. If something is not for sale, then it is useless, and this psychology has really deterred them to come to Sahaja Yoga very much, because this is a living process and you cannot pay for it, and they couldn’t bear it.
I mean, actually, I must say, one of the very important television gentlemen told me off that Anglo Saxon brain cannot accept anything which cannot be sold.
And I did not know what to tell him. I just said, Who has made this brain? If God has made, then why is it so?”.
Interviewer: So you have an expectation really that the thing called Sahaja Yoga will change the world.
Shri Mataji: Of course. It changes human beings and they manifest the change outside. And we create a new race.
That is what they are talking about.
If you know they talk of a new age, of a new race, but I don’t know what is their imagination about it. They talk about all this thing, ‘Aquarius.’ And Aquarius is the Kundalini. She is placed in the Aquarius, and they talk about the Aquarius age. All kinds of things. They are talking, writing, thinking about it, but when it comes to actualization I think they think I am very too simple for them. Not complicated.
And Sahaja Yoga is too simple. It should be very complicated. And all their own ideas about seeking, that they must suffer, they must go to the Himalayas, they must starve themselves and then only they can get realization.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, is the evolution of the planet closely related to the evolution of humanity?
Shri Mataji: Of course. It is, very much related, and the planet, our planet is moving in a spiral way. All the planets are moving in a spiral way and they are creating all possible things for the use of human beings, so that they can save time. Save time for getting their ascent and for meditative growth, but people don’t understand that part.
Interviewer: There are theories around now, the suggestions, so we say, that the planet could be a living organism, a complete entity.
Shri Mataji: Of course it is. One of the examples of this one, I can give you, is that if you sleep under a coconut tree, a coconut never falls on anything that is living, whether it is a human being or snake. It never falls.
Interviewer: That is so? Is it? All around the world, coconuts never fall on living creatures?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Yes. So they – understand. We call it as Shriphala because we think that it is like a brain which understands.
Interviewer: Well, if this world is a living organism, what is the brain? What drives this being, this organism? What has made it evolve the way it has?
Shri Mataji: There is this subtle power which is all-pervading of God’s love which manifests all the things like living work, all nourishment, all balancing. It’s so balanced if the Pacific was slightly deeper than this, there would have been problems.
If Himalaya was, say, one and a half times more than what it is, there would have been problems. So everything is so balanced in nature, and the Almighty has created only one world.
Only we human beings have divided and move like criminals with our passports in our hands.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, What we have been talking about, many people would regard as a belief or a theory. How does one know the difference between truth and a belief?
Shri Mataji: First of all anything for which you have to pay money is not the truth. You can’t pay for the truth. If you cancel out that, I think 99.9% of all the falsehood will drop out.
But truth to be really actualized you have to have Self-realization. Then you feel on your fingertips vibratory awareness. A new awareness. A new dimension of awareness by which you can make out what is truth and what is false. That is an absolute truth that you realize at that stage.
Interviewer: So one must have one’s realization really, to be able to tell the truth.
Shri Mataji: Even to follow anyone, one must have a Realization.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Thank you.
Russians are doing one film, too. Russians are doing one film.
Interviewer: Shri Mother, I was reading an article just now where you were talking about inner peace and outer peace. This seems to be something that attracts the attention of people in this present stressful age.
Shri Mataji: By realization what happens - [ Video interruption ] as a result, you become a person endowed with thoughtless awareness.
That means you see everything. You witness everything and whenever you want to say, or to think, you can see about it, but you don’t react.
There is no reaction. So you are empowered to see it in such a manner that there need not be any thought, just the whole creation acts on you. It’s a very subtle thing.
It is to be experienced and that is the point where we realize that we are the source of peace, and that’s how our inner peace is established.
Now people have many foundations of peace, I have known all of them. They have no peace within themselves. Some people have got peace awards and they are horribly hot-tempered people but they have got peace awards, Noble prizes.
The peace has to be first of all found inside and then it manifests outside.
Interviewer: Shri Mother, another question we wanted to ask you is because of this rather useful way, you use your hands to describe the movement of the chakra when they part.
I wonder if you could just explain why, when illness occurs, it occurs because of the movement away of one centre from another.
Shri Mataji: All right. What I try to show them is that this is the left side, this is the right side.
This is the left sympathetic nervous system and this is the right sympathetic nervous system. And really the spinal cord looks like this, and inside here is the spinal cord which has the centres in it. The subtle centres.
Now when you start using the energy of these centres, say too much on the right, then it starts moving more towards the right and there is a constriction; and the power becomes less because you are exhausting it, going more towards the right side.
Suddenly something happens and from the left, if there is a jerk, the connection is completely broken.
This is on its own. It starts working on its own. That’s we say that this has become malignant. It has no relationship with the whole to have proportionate growth, so if the nose starts developing it can cover your eyes, it can cover your mouth, everything.
This is how cancer is set in or any other disease. So many psychosomatic diseases are nothing but - somatic is from the right side - and when the psyche gives in, then it becomes a psychosomatic disease.
There are so many diseases which are more psychosomatic than physical. And these we call them as incurable, can be easily cured by kundalini awakening because when Kundalini passes through this, she just integrates them.
For example, she’s going like this then she goes into this, integrates them.
Just like she strings them like pearls and so they are brought around and also she nourishes that centre. That is how people get cured, automatically, by themselves, by their own power.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, do you want to speak to the ABC in Adelaide this afternoon or would you rather that I rang them and said you are too busy?
Shri Mataji: Yes... No. (Video interruption) abrupt.
Interviewer: Yes, there have been many problems there.
Shri Mataji: Abrupt, also a very flippant type of thing. It’s not going to help...
Interviewer: They said they wanted to talk to you about false gurus and more. (Video interruption) They have been having a little trouble this morning, you know. And we have banners to put up announcing your program tonight and we had them on various bridges and they kept chasing them away, but we finally found a place where they’ve allowed them to stay.
Shri Mataji: They must be busy with the elections.
Interviewer: Oh yes, it’s all very important.
Shri Mataji: They want to reserve places for elections.
Interviewer: Yes, If it was for the election, it would be able to go up anywhere. But if it’s anything else they are not so happy.
Shri Mataji: That shows their attention.
Interviewer (aside to the recording team): Enough?
Recording team: Yes.