Unless and until you have the actualisation of this experience, you cannot become divine 1992-09-08
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
8 September 1992
Unless And Until You Have The Actualisation Of This Experience, You Cannot Become Divine
Public Program
Terrace on the Park, New York City (United States)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
Public Program
[note = There are 5 audio tracks out of which 4&5 is realisation which is excluded from transcription here, (SR part on Video)]
Track 1
Shri Mataji: At the very outset we have to know that truth is what it is. We cannot change it, we cannot transform it, we cannot describe it, but, truth is that you have to feel this all pervading power of divine love on your central nervous system. Another truth is, fundamental one, that you are not this body, this mind, these emotions, this ego, these conditionings, but, you are pure spirit. This is what you have to become. You have to get to your selfhood. Just giving sermons and lectures or talking about it, it is not going to work out. It is the actualisation which is important. Unless and until you have the actualisation of this experience, you cannot become divine. The divinity within you is absolutely there intact. Nothing can disturb it because it is eternal. But it has been through our thinking, may be be our ignorance, call it anything, is covered as the sun can be covered with clouds. It is all there. But you are here, you are here as seekers and I respect you and I bow to you because you are seekers, seekers of truth. What do you have to find? You have to become the spirit. This is the most important point we have missed in our seeking.
I know in this New York when I first came, I was really surprised that such advertisement and such falsehood and so much money was going on in the name of God. And people are so naive, so simple, and so faithful that they accepted all these false people from India, who came from everywhere. But one has to know that God doesn’t understand money, you cannot purchase it. We live with money, we deal with money, but not God. The divine does not know your banks, your affluence and recession, doesn’t know. So first of all we have to respect ourselves as seekers. This is where I think we have failed. We are not ??. Sometimes we lack that dignity of a seeker. Of course, some of them have gone to any extent of torture, I know that. But some of them have been very frivelous about it. Like you have shopping here, massive store, this store, that store, so they are going from one place to another to another to another. And I was stunned the way people liked all these showmanship. That time I did tell them that don’t take to unnatural life and I told them that you will develop a disease like AIDS. About 10 years back I told them you will develop a disease, ?? but they don’t like it. You have to pamper their ego to say that no, no, you are great you are already there in the heavens, you are already twice born. It’s not so. I can’t tell lies. But this is what has filed us, all these ??. Though I must say American are excellent people, very knowledgeable. So before you go to any guru, you should first find out the disciples, their lifestyle, how are they, what are they doing. Now most of them are exposed, of course now. But still new people are coming up. And so blatantly they are telling things that I don’t know what happens to our intelligence that we can’t find out that they are just marketing it. How can you market God? Its turning away from, all these, now people may take to fundamentalism. Is true. Because they have to have faith in something. So they take to fundamentalism. But just look at these religions also, what they have done in the name of God. Christ has said, you will be calling me calling me Christ Christ, I wouldn’t recognize you. So with all these kind of people coming up, though I have been telling them by names, I described them by names, I told people who were they before and what are they now and how are they going to get at it. But they would not listen to me. It’s impossible to understand how such intelligent people like Americans can get so mesmerised and so very easily. And bombardment of these advertisement, advertisement, really.
First I refused to have any posters put in America. I thought if there are seekers they will come. But doesn’t work out that way, doesn’t work out that way. And so now before I tell you about it, I have to tell you one thing that you have to be serious about it. You must respect yourself. Not only that human beings but you are seekers of truth. You have been seeking in your last lives and now where there is chance for you to get it, at this time you should be serious; and not treat as another show going on. This they asked me permission to show this, I said alright do it. I mean if that is going to help you. But why should you even believe that? Why should you also believe me? At least you must know that I want you to know yourself. And if you don’t know yourself, you should have no faith in me. But you have to come forward. When I started my work in England, you the English are known for their snobbishness, they are snobbish, but their scholarship nobody can match. That’s another thing with their snobbishness, they are scholars. And there suddenly it clicked with them and they came along. So there is one thing we have to remember, Christ has said it that the meek in heart will inherit the earth. We have to be humble about it, that we have not known so far and that we have to know. That’s all. You don’t have to surrender your money to me, surrender these ??. Only things is that we have not known so far, I have been a seeker, I have been running all over the places, I haven’t fund it and let me now find it, for final.
9.50
So in us lies this kundalini in the triangular bone (at the base of spine). Its a very ancient knowledge. Its not nothing new as such. But in those days the tradition was to have only one disciple and one master. We had people who were devotional, we had people who were doing research sort of thing and we can say they were, with vedas, they were trying to find out how to master the material life or you can say the five elements. But we have people in our country since long who wanted that we should know ourselves, self knowledge, self realisation -’atmasakshatkar’. If this knowledge comes to you from India, what’s the harm? After all the whole scientific knowledge has come to us from the West. And also Christ was also not born in England. Anywhere we get the knowledge we should respect it. The reason is we were so busy in the West, developing ourselved outside that we didn’t tried to find out our roots; and this is the knowledge of the roots. All this knowledge can be yours, you can’t pay for it. That’s one thing please remember. Its so invaluable. All this knowledge can be yours and you could master it, you all can become masters; but for that you have to have a quality. It is not meant for stupid, idiots and lousy people. And also for shifty people. You have to be solid sahaja yogis for that only thing what is need is pure desire to become the spirit, the pure desire. Because this kundalini is the power of pure desire. You know the law of economics is that ‘no want is satiable’ in the sense that in general wnats are not satiable. Today you want to have this, tomorrow you want to have that, then that, it goes no moving from one to another. So whatever desires we have are all mundane. But the pure desire if you are aware of it or not is to know yourself. Without knowing yourself you cannot know the divine, you cannot know almighty. No use talking about God, giving big big lectures and surmons and this and that. It’s all a yarn out the heads of the people that is coming out. It has no substance in it. First of all we have to know ourselves. Get ourself, then only we will know what is the truth or what is not. I don’t know what Gregoire has told you about kundalini. But when it rises, it is spontaneous. No we should understand what is spontaneous. We have flowers here, we see them so beautiful they are. They come from this mother earth. How? Isn’t it a miracle? Look at our eyes, which is a camera, and the brain is a computer; how did we get all these things? We take everything for granted. Who does all this living work? We never ever think. And Science cannot answer.
Science has its own limitations. It cannot say why are you here and what is your purpose of life? It cannot, it cannot answer this. Unless and until you get this answer you will be restless, you will be nervous, you will be upset, you will be insecure till you find out the answer why are we here. So these miracles takes place spontaneously because the seed has the built in quality to sprout and the mother earth has the built in quality to sprout it. It just works out. We can say that mother earth is a living thing. Seed is also potentially living. Whatever it is, the most important thing is you born in those special days when you have to get what you have been seeking. So when this kundalini rises, whatever may be your genetics, whatever may be your race, your this and that, all the problems that come out of conditioning and your ego and your enterprises into various aspects of life, whatever it has been, there is one thing for sure that everything can change with your ascent because spirit is a universal being. It cannot be conditioned and you will jump into a new awareness which we call as collective consciousness, about which (Carl) Jung has written. But Jung knew little bit about it, not the full of it. He has written about the collective consciousness means you start feelings others on your being. You will be surprised in Quran, Mohammad Sahab has said that at the time of Qiyama, means resurrection, your hands will speak. But who is bothered to see about the Qiyama. They are just fighting. All these religions have become money oriented or power oriented. None of them are spirit oriented. Whatever they may say about themselves. And they don’t know how to retain their existence. So they are trying all kinds of things. Whatever is false has to be destroyed. That time has come.
So now, when this ascent takes place, first thing that happens to you that you become collectively conscious. Means on central nervous system you can feel the centres of others. Your own centres and the centres of others. This is the beginning of it. But that doesn’t mean spiritually you are fully evolved. First state of evolution takes place when you cross over on this centre, optic chiasma, where you become thoughtlessly aware ‘nirvichar samadhi’. Thoughtlessly aware. It has to happen. For eg. We live all the time in the past or in future and our mind is all the time jumping on the cusps of these thoughts. Sometimes these thoughts could be very trouble some. But when kundalini rises she pushes these thoughts on one side and in between there is a little space or vilamba in sanskrit, it’s a pause where there is the present. So in the present you don’t think. And unless and until you are in the present, you cannot grow spiritually. And if I say you stand in the present, you cannot. As the result of this first establishment of your state you become extremely kind, peaceful, relaxed, and atleast drop 20 years of your age (looks youger). All your wrinkles drop, all your twitching and nervousness drops out. You become extremely calm. Like if you are on the periphery of the wheel, moving, moving, moving, but the axis of the wheel is quiet. Has to be. It can’t move. If it start moving, cart will never move, the car will never move. So you jump on the axis of your being. From there you see everything. You become the witness. Like when you are watching some drama, suddenly you see Napoleon, you think you are also Napoleon. You see you also get into that mode.
20.05
But when the drama is over, what do you find? It was drama, it’s over! In the same way all this becomes like a drama and you become the witness of that. Moreover, all those problems which were troubling you, you can see them now. Like in water you are afraid getting drowned. But, supposingly you get up somehow or the other into a boat, you can watch these waves. But, if you become a swimmer, you can save so many.
The second state where it breaks through from your fontanelle bone area, this is the actualisation of baptism. Not that some priest put water on your head and say ‘now you are baptised’. William Blake has said ‘a priest cursed me on my fontanelle’; and people call him mad. You see if every body is mad, a sane person also looks like mad then. And this is what we should not accept. And then you can feel a cool breeze coming out of your own fontanelle bone area. You start doubting, is there a aircondition in my head or what, how it’s coming out? But first mostly it is hot, then it goes down. The reason is all the heat of the body. But with some cancer patients I have seen even in London the room can get heated up. But when this kundalini rises she nourishes these centres on the left and the right side. You have the sympathetic nervous system which we use, left and right side, they join together and a centre is form, like this. When you start using the energy, what happens there is constriction of these and sometimes it breaks. When it breaks there is no connection with the whole. That's how you develop all these incurable diseases, specially cancer. You will be happy to know even blood cancer has been cured through Sahaja yoga. We don’t want to advertise too much because all the blood cancer (patients) will be coming on our heads. What we want sane, good, healthy people first become doctors and then they can cure others. There are three doctors in delhi university where they have got their MD in Sahaja yoga. We have one here now. On their thesis on Sahaja yoga, how they have cured incurable diseases. I think asthma and epilepsies, things like that. I mean India is very sensitive to spirituality, I must say. We have lots of hypocrites, lots of wrong people also, but on the whole our life style is very steady. We would have never accepted this Freud in India. I told somebody what Freud was saying about the mother. And the fellow said, ‘really he said so’? I said, yes he did. If he would have come to India we would have chopped him off and threw him in the sea. But here we accepted this horrible devil of a Freud. And now after so many years they are talking against him. It is also I must say the suppression of the catholic church may be, that is the original sin. I mean, imagine Christ attended a wedding, was he trying to encourage a original sin? There is no logic in this. All this yarn has come out of Paul’s mind and he used this Peter the weakest disciple of Christ, to completely destroy the work of Christ. This yarn which came out thier heads that it’s a original sin, i mean so we are all sinners (according to them). So these special people who are supposed to be the in charge of affairs are not sinners (?) They can take money from us. But why take money from sinners? We must use our logic when we follow something. What has it given to us? Its not only Christianity, Hinduism same thing I tell you. Horrible. Krishna has said that spirit is in every one. How can they have caste sytem then? And who wrote Gita, Vyasa, who was illegitimate child of a fisher woman. But in the Gita they have changed it and put it that your caste is prenate. It is absolutely a very superficial garment people are wearing as religion which has no connection with them. So first we have to become alert and see for ourselves and introspect, what religion are we following, what do we believe in, what we have accepted, how far it is correct? So, when the kundalini is out and this connection is established, even for a short time, you can feel on your finger tips the all pervading power of divine love. If I talk of God in these modern times because science and dollar has become our God, people don’t like it. But I can talk of divinity. You can then feel that there is this divine power which is doing all this living work. Now imagine you become one with that divine power, then what happens? What is this divine power made of? It has all the vital power, what you call as prana, it has all the mental powers, is called as manasa, and it has all the redeeming power in it. All the knowledge is within us and the whole knowledge starts manifesting itself. We have no idea what we are. Just see this instrument (mike) is made, and it is not put to mains (power connection), it has no meaning. It has to be put to the mains. In the same way once we are connected with this power, we become one with the divine. Or, we can say that we enter into the kingdom of God. Even when they enter, they don’t belive in them. They will say take your seat now this is a thrown for you, still a person looks around. See because if he is begging on street and if you make him a King suddenly, he can’t believe it you see. He sits on the thrown and he is asking (begging). It happens. Doesn’t matter. But gradually you realise that you are extremely powerful, you are extremely dynamic and at the same time you are extremely compassionate. So we have never used the power of love. Always the power of hatred has been used by human beings. It comes from animals I think. Not from the divine. So, in the nature of spirit, when the spirit starts manifesting in your attention, first as I told you, you can feel the centres of others and your centres very clearly. And all of them feel the same. You take 5 children who are realised souls, tie (on) their eyes and ask them, ‘What is this man suffering from’? They will raise the same finger, all of them. And you ask that person ‘have you got a heart trouble?’. Yes, how do you know? This finger (little). It is meta science I am talking to you about, that you become the science itself. You don’t have to go for your diagnosis somewhere. Some people die only in diagnosis, leave alone the further treatment. You can diagnose others, you can diagnose yourself and you know what is wrong within. If you know how to correct our self, you are alright. All the world problems comes from human beings. Must admit. And all the human problems come from their centres. And if you can put these centres alright, you can solve your problem without paying any money, without having any discussions, and arguments, and fightings, and wars; nothing. Because you become a universal being, your universal religion come up. I am surprised, Dalai Lama who is begging all over. Specially in America, lot of money, that’s all they do; has developed such wrinkles all over his face, begging. He told that we can’t have a universal religion because we are all different people. They are now against having a universal religion. But actually all these religions outside which create such barriers between human beings cannot be religion.
Within us then rises that universal religion which integrates all the religion and all the beautiful principles of ?? religion. Mahatma Gandhi believed in that and so many people do believe, because he was realised soul. These religions came as beautiful flowers on the tree of spirituality and people have plucked them and now they are marketing those dead flowers and fighting. So you understand all these religions come out of one tree of spirituality. And you see the beauty of it; and also you see the nonsense that people have done in the name of God. Now the first thing you know is the absolute truth about everything. You just put your hands (palms upwards as if asking). Those who don’t believe in God can ask ‘is there God?’ If you are realised soul, vibrations will start cool vibrations in the hand, moving. Supposing a crook is there sitting like a big acetic and you ask ‘is he a real guru?’ Your hand will burn. Not only, sometimes, you might get blister from some of them. So you know the absolute truth. And if everyone knows the same absolute truth then how can there be quarrel, how can there be fight? We have, I don’t know, thousands of people who have got realisation; but about 3000 people come to India for seminar we have; and I am amazed they are from all communities, all races, from all over the world, they never quarrel, no fight, no violence, nothing. They meet each other, no brother can meet like that. No sex problems, like this man running after that woman, that married woman is running after (that man), nothing of the kind. This all. They become pure people, pure. Really they become angels I tell you. They have lived in the same society, enjoying the same nonsense, but suddenly they enjoy their virtues and shy like angels. You all can become angels. This is one thing I promise. But you must know that you can become and you must respect yourself. Whatever may be your birth, your creed, your nation, anything, makes no difference. These are different varieties that God has created to create beauty. That’s all. But every human being can get his selfrealisation because it is inevitable and end of evolution. This is the last breakthrough you have to have.
In the beginning American discarded me because I was not charging any money. I couldn’t understand that. I didn’t know how to talk to them. But I hope, its better, the situation is better now. The second very important thing about the spirit is that it brings light in your life, that you see things you are not upset, you don’t get into tensions. Apart from your physical, mental, emotional problems are solved, your spiritual problems are solved. You become like a saint or become a saint. That’s what happens. It’s unbelievable, its so fantastic. But you are fantastic. Supposing I take a little, a television to some remote village and tell them that you can see some films in this, they will say ‘ohh, oh this box?’ We also think we are just boxes, but if you put if you put to the mains we can see what fantasy is and you will be really amazed at yourself. All this otential qualities are expressed because of the light of the spirit within you. Not that, you get back your innocence, but you get back all your powers. In the sense that you can give realisation to others. If there is an enlightened candle it can enlighten another candle. But those who think that now supposing this candle is not enlightened and it thinks that I can get enlightened by myself, it cannot. That’s another ego.
An enlightened person can only enlighten another person and when another person is enlightened he can enlighten another person.
This is another ego which is killing us. This is a wrong idea.
And above all you jump into the ocean of joy. You should understand what joy is. Joy is not duality like happiness and unhappiness. If our ego is pampered you are happy, If it is disturbed we are unhappy. But joy is a state which is singular, which is absolute. It cannot be described, it can be enjoyed. And such a person becomes such a source of peace and simplicity, innocence and love, that you are amazed. Now on the material side also I should tell you that first of all that your creativity starts manifesting. 38.35
I know some people who were Chartered Accountants have become great poets. Imagine a Chartered Accountant dealing with accounts becoming poets. Musician, very great musicians, those who you know, are Sahaja yogis from India. Amjad Ali you must be knowing, ??, Debut Chaudhary, they are all Sahaja yogis. Then because you get wisdom within you, you have right choices and you are blessed by the divine. Your material problems are solved. In England, you will be surprised, we have the highest record of unemployment but not single sahaja yogis are unemployed; its impossible to find. Your wasteful habits are dropped out. So many drug addicts, overnight they have given up drugs. I never tell them don’t do. I never tell them don’t do this. Otherwise, half of them will walk out. Just it happens. Because if you are holding on to a snake, somebody ?? it’s a snake, they will not like it. Bring the light, immediately they will drop out the snake. So all self destructive things that we have acquired, just drops out and we become extremely constructive. Aesthetically we become very rich and we understand that righteousness is the only way we can live happily. We just become righteous. Christ has said ‘Thou shall not have adulterous eyes’; what a subtle thing he has said. Even the eyes should not have any lust and greed. Actually thats what happens. And these innocent eyes are so powerful, that even a glance can do a lot. This mastery I don’t want to tell you too much because you wouldn’t be able to bear it; what mastery you can reach. But, the greatest thing that happens to you that by knowing yourself you are absolutely confident of yourself but you do not agress anyone and do not take anybody’s aggression. You develop such a personality that no body can aggress you. Neither you aggress anyone. And if anybody aggresses you, you take it just as a joke. You don’t take it seriously. This kind of personality is within you which is trying to manifest. Some people who never used to sing started singing so beautifully. Can you imagine these English who stayed in India for 300 years, didn’t know how to say one sentence of Hindi language. Its impossible. Now they are singing sanskrit songs. Can’t understand ?? very beautifully. If you just close the door don’t see them, you wouldn’t believe. Even the Indians can’t sing the way they are singing.Because you have become universal, you start understanding. The whole alertness helps you because one has to understand that there is divine power which is working it out everything. Whatever you saw in this ?? is the work of divine power. And you feel amazed that at every step how they help you. How you get rid of your diseases. In Sahaja yoga no body gets sick. Very rarely. Even if they start getting sick, they know why this is happening, they can correct themselves. On the agricultural side we have experimented, if you give vibrated water or if a sahaja yogi does the cultivation, sometimes this yield could be 10 times more than normal and with non-hybrid seeds. Even with animals, with animal husbandry, so many professors have experimented. Except for this country everyone has taken Sahaja yoga very seriously. Scientists, doctors; in London there are 7 doctors who are doing recording of so many people have been cured of so many diseases. 43.42
Track 2
There are scientists in Switzerland who have found out so many things. All this happens just because you yourself have the power to do it. This science is not conclusive. Today you find out something to bake your cake easily, then you do something how to shave fast, then something else, something else, but nothing about yourself. Goes on like that. You go to moon, you go to this place, you go there, what you get? Why not go to yourself? If all these things are contained many more, why not allow our spirituality to come up. Ofcourse you don’t have to give money, but, you have to give some time. Because the whole thing is now working on a collective basis not on individual basis. If you say alright, I am doing myself meditation, mother has told ?? I am doing at home, it wouldn’t work out. You have to be in the collective. Say a nail is cut out of the finger it wouldn’t grow. So you have to belong the whole body. Once you become collective you will never leave it, because its so enjoyable. Such pure joy. Example, first when I went to Russia, there were 25 Germans who came to help me. I was really touched. I asked them ‘how is it you all have come’? So they said mother ‘don’t you think we bear responsibility for what our forefathers have done.’ with the tears in their eyes. If you see these Germans, they are the gentlest people you could think of, very gentle. This is time for us to change. It’s all working out. Russia is of course as he said. India I need not tell you because India is tremendous. Also I think so many Arabic countries will now jump into it because they are fedup with fundamentalism. Russia may be one day a very very great country because they are very solid people, very introspective, very satisfied. There are 30% who are just minial workers and things, they will ask you for American gene or something like that, but 70% are, every third person is a doctor of this and doctor of that. 200 scientists invited me to address them and they said ‘Mother don’t tell us about science - we know, tell us about divine science. Which absolutely conclusive, not only that but which is absolutely absolute. You cannot imporve on it. It’s so efficient, it’s so definite, so meticulous and its so beautiful. It’s all there. There are so many other things that you can discover and I leave it to you. Now to get to it.
Track 3
because Sahaja yogis are now here are fed up. They say that 100 will come to our program and 2 will stay then 1 will stick. I can’t believe it that Americans can’t take things seriously. Can’t believe it, where people like Abraham Lincoln, great people who gave democracy to whole world and there is so much for you to give. You will be held responsible in a way because you are here, I have told you the truth, and if you do not get to it, it’s your responsibility. I cannot force on you, its your freedom. If you don’t want to have it, how can I force? It cannot be forced. I have seen all the gurus, they will write letters to all the people inviting them, all those who have money and all – please come to uor program. They have delegations to meet them. No, its for seekers. Not for the rich or the poor or politicians, for bureaucrats, for anything, or for any successful musicians; its meant only for seekers. If you are true seeker you should get it. It’s your right to get it. Sahaja- ‘saha’ means with you, ‘ja’ is born, this right to get this yoga-union with the divine. I am happy to see so many Indians here. It is there heritage. But I think dollar system might have little bit clouded their eyes. This is their heritage. And they should take to it. But it is the right of every human being to have it. 300 years of British rule in India has changed our country a lot. We lost all our old knowledge which is 1000s and 1000s of years old. Markandeya (sage) wrote about it this 14000 years back. Then Adi Shankaracharya in 6 th century, 12 th century Gyaneshwara, then Nanaka. Guru Nanaka has so clearly said it. Where are they? I hope in this visit of mine in New York many of you will take to it seriously. I must tell you now I am 70 years of age, I don’t know, every day I am travelling. I don’t know how long will I continue in my life time I would like New York people settle down nicely in Sahaja Yoga.
May God bless you all.