What is the criteria that we are realized souls? 1983-10-20
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20 October 1983
What Is The Criteria That We Are Realized Souls?
Public Program
The Community Church of New York, New York City (United States)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
Public Program Day 3
If Rama came to be the greatest example of kingship, of fatherhood and who gave society a tremendous base upon which to establish the quality of dharma and family life, then there had to be a power to sustain. That power was none other than Radha, than Sita. If Lord Krishna came to do the job of establishing within us the potential consciousness that we have to become the witness to the [drama] of life, that we have to recognize the nature of the all-pervading God, that we have to recognize the greatness of God and that He has to watch His play, and that we have to be like Him and watch that play rather than become involved in it. If Shri Krishna came on the Earth to establish the quality of divine diplomacy within us, that we have to be sweet, that we have to, in order to convince people have a certain essence of truth, you may have to go about it in different ways, at different levels, all of those sweet things that we know from Bhagavat Gita. There had to be a power to sustain. That power was Radha. If Christ came to open the narrow gate, if He came to absorb and dissolve and neutralize our ego, He said: “I have died for your sins”. This means that He absorbs all of the wrong doings of the past at the time of self Realization. If He came to be resurrected, to prove that the Spirit is eternal, how did He do it, how did He go through the drama? He was sustained again by the power of his Mother, who was none other than the primordial Mother Herself, as the Mother Mary. So through the eternity of time, as the Mother of the Buddha, as the wife of Hazrat Ali who was the husband of Fatima, She incarnated at that time to do that job of providing the sustaining force. But now what has happened today is that same [Thy] has taken birth as a Mother, to give us what Christ promised, our second birth. The age of the father was an age of rough, of stern supervision. The age of the son, Christ, was the age of nourishment, yes, but nourishment in the sense of setting that quality of Sonship, forgiveness, sacrifice and slowly introducing the concept of the Mother. And the final age of the Holy Ghost spoken of by Joachim del Fiore and many other Catholic mystics. The age of the Holy Ghost is now. And the one to do the job has to be none other than a Mother, the same Primordial Mother as has been incarnating over the eternity of time. So Shri Mataji is here for one job. She is here to awaken within you that pure desire to be one with God. That residual energy which is sleeping, but which in the presence of Her, or another realized soul, awakens spontaneously and effortlessly and without any pain, and gives you what you have been seeking for so many births. The time has come. Mother uses the phrase that on the Tree of Life, at first there were just a few flowers. Now the blossom time has come. And all of those blossoms have to turn to fruit. And this is why we are here. The fruiting is self Realization, but it has to actualize, it has to happen. So when it happens, it manifests as I explained to you as these cool vibrations. When you feel these cool vibrations, you then are empowered with the all-pervading power of God. You can raise your own Kundalini, you can balance the energies, you can clear the chakras in yourself and in others. Through the collective consciousness that happens you can know which center within you is clear and which one is a little bit obstructed. And you know in other people. You can work it out in yourself, you can work it out in others. You can give the blessing to others. As you get it, you can give it to others. So it's a tremendous leap forward in our evolutionary cycle. So from this limited, human awareness we are now moving ahead into a new dimension, which has been promised, by all of the great incarnations. You become a Spiritual being. So on this last night, here in New York, all of you should be absolutely in the mood of, "I have to get something", but not only get something, because most of you have got it, but you have to as if “suck" those vibrations into your being, into the very being which is this subtle body that lies within you. Allow these centers to purify and to cleanse. Allow the Kundalini to come up with greater and greater force. And allow yourself to enjoy all of the blessings of being one with the Spirit. Thank you very much. And may I introduce you to again, Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. I bow to all the seekers of Truth. As Dr. Warren has told you, that the blossom time has come. You could never have found so many seekers, on this Earth, say even before 50 years. Suddenly so many seekers have been born, who are seeking something beyond. They are not satisfied with rationality, with materialism, with all the ideologies given by the people who talk that that we should be satisfied with ourselves as far as matter goes or as far as mental projection is concerned. They want to know that there must be something beyond. And thus we find there is a great shopping center that has opened especially in your country, of all those people who think they can surprise us. That is one of the signs which were described even by Christ. Of course in our country, there are books and books written about those people who will come here as fake people and take full advantage of your seeking. Now the problem with the Western mind is this, that it does not understand the dangers of getting into all kinds of things, and that is why they are really [led] into things where they should not have been. And they have no knowledge also, in a way what to expect of themselves. When they are seeking, what should be expected? What should happen to us? What is the criteria that we are realized souls? Which is the way we can find out that we have got our Realization? As it is, there is so much of book-knowledge, the worst, as Shankaracharya calls as, calls it shabda jaalam, the net of worse. And people were lost in those words. The books are there, the words are there, and the people start thinking that by reading these books or by understanding them mentally, or some of them think by remembering by heart, they will achieve their Realization. That means Realization is only for people, who are able to read. And what about the people who cannot read? Are they not going to evolve? Perhaps they are going to evolve much faster than the people who can read. Because they have no complications in their heads. They are simple, straight forward people. I've seen the example of that in India. Not only that, but they are very sensitive. It's because they live with the Mother Earth They are extremely sensitive. They know a tug, they know a cheat, they know a hypocrite and they know the reality. While where people live with artificialities, with artificial love, it's impossible for them to judge, what is real and what is artificial. As I told you before, that minimum of minimum, you must cancel all the people who live on your money. They are parasites, in simple words. Or they may be your servants. But they cannot be the people who can deliver the goods. If they are poor, they live like poor people. If they are rich, they live there, but absolutely detached. Now, what should we expect? What should happen to us, when we say that "I have got Realization". This is the point people do not know they are not educated in that. They are naive about it, and that's why people have taken full advantage of their ignorance. I came ten years back, and told them frankly about all these things, with names and things, But they didn’t like Me. They said, "Why should You stop us from doing all these?" I said, "Go ahead." But now what I find most of them are lost. They have just became like cabbages. They are so mesmerized, they don’t know what they are doing, where they have to go. Now if the Spirit has to shine within us, what should happen, what is Self Realization? Let’s see if there is a light in this room, if you become the light, you don’t see the light. But through that you can see everyone, the light can see everyone. And what do you see? First you must see yourself. You have never faced yourself. People become mad. Till they are mad they don’t know that they are becoming mad. They get cancers, their diseases in the body is crawling up. They don’t know they got the disease, there’s any problem. They just continue with the life, without understanding. They have no way of finding out, or diagnosis cannot be done by them. But once you become the Spirit, the Spirit when it emits through your fingers, when you start feeling enlightenment of your fingertips, you can feel what’s wrong with your chakras, means your centers. Now somebody can decode it and tell you, that this fingers means that, this finger means that, this finger means that, the combination and permutations of these seven centers, one two, three four, five, six, seven, as shown here. We have marked with the colors to show you that how on the finger, hands, feet have different, but hands, you see the effect of those centers when you are enlightened. Before that you cannot. Because you are like a computer. You are really a computer, otherwise also if you want to see rationally that you see something and you don’t think about it, but you see. What a perfect computer you are already. But the computer becomes a part and parcel of your awareness. You sort of become the master of that computer so that you can understand the decoding, and the maneuvering of all the processes of that computer. This computer is beautifully made, Is very beautifully made as you can see it. Is not a mix bag, as most of the psychologists believe that you have to go to the subconscious, to get to the higher super consciousness. Here you can see on the left hand side is the subconscious and the collective subconscious. On the right hand side you have got this supraconscious that is the future and the collective supraconscious. Down below is what you call the hell, and on top is the superconsciousness. To rise there is a passage kept very firmly. You have to pass through these centers and whatever problems are in the centers if you start feeling on your fingertips and know how to cure them, you can make your Kundalini rise very nicely and establish Agnya. All these knowledge can be yours, very easily, but the first thing is that you have to get your Realization. Unless and until there is light, and if I tell you, this is not a snake, this is just a cord, you are not going to believe it. The light has to come to give you the complete idea about yourself, so you know yourself. First of all you must know physically what is wrong. Secondly you must know what's wrong with you mentally. Now people who are ego oriented. They torture others, they aggress others, but they don’t know that they are full of ego. The people who are superego, means those who take tortures upon others, they start indulging into their miseries and start saying, "I must suffer, I must have done something wrong, so I must suffer". They accept that kind of a life. But after Realization you understand that you are not your ego or superego, but you are your Self. And you are not to suffer, nor do you have to aggress anyone. Nor you have to take aggression from anyone, but you stand in the center, as the light. You have to just have to just have the source of joy flowing into you. All the time you have to get connected to the whole, so that you are looked after by the whole. You become part and parcel of the whole. You are part and parcel, but you are not aware. You become aware of it. So the first thing happens to you that you come to know about your physical side and mental side, whether you are emotional or whether you are ego oriented. Then you start in the center. When I’m talking to you maybe you are thinking of your past or maybe you are thinking about of you future at this time. But if I say that pay attention to yourself, you cannot pay. Your attention is outside. That is why this happening takes place, which attracts your attention inside. And when the attention is attracted inside, then you start seeing yourself clearly, understanding yourself, "That is the matter with me". What's wrong with the world today is wrong with every individual. If the individuals improve, the whole world is going to improve. So physically and mentally you get perfectly all right. All kinds of diseases can be cured by Sahaja Yoga; you can cure yourself, I don’t have to cure you. Because you become empowered by that. Secondly, you also know what is wrong with you, Spiritually. Supposing you have been to a wrong guru, supposing you have been mesmerized by a wrong person, now how are you going to know whether he is wrong or a right person? How will you find out? Supposing Christ comes stands before you, how will you recognize Christ? Have you any way of finding out? Anybody who talks sweetly has all these professional methods of enticing you, you can fall a pray to that. But after Realization you find from your hand a new kind of a vibratory awareness is going. Through these vibrations you can find out whether the person is false, hypocritical or a devil. If he is a devil you might even get blisters on your hand. And that's how you correct your Spiritual seeking when you have gone wrong. If you know how to correct it, the methods which are very simple, the movement of your hands, you can get out of that. Many people as you must have known, that who have been to cults, had fake gurus, have suffered. They have become like cabbages. But all those people can be saved if they get their Realization and gradually understand their power of getting out of it. Because Spirit is self-powered, it works on itself. So first of all you know about yourself. As a result of that, you drop off all your habits. Supposing there is a black spot on my sari, I cannot see and I am identified with it, so anybody tells me there is black spot, I won’t like it. But supposing I can see it, then I clean it myself. When the nectar or ambrosia of God’s love starts flowing in you, you just don’t need to drink, you just don't need to smoke, you are no more a slave of any habits. You just become a free bird. That’s the real freedom, that nothing can entice you, nothing can enslave you. You become so integrated that if you don’t want it, you just don’t want it. Then your body will support you, your mind will support you, your Spirit will support you. You are completely integrated at that point. That is the first thing happens to you, as a person who comes to Sahaja Yoga; I’ve seen many of them, were alcoholics. We have some artists in India, were great alcoholics. Very great artists. They came to Sahaja Yoga and they dropped their habits. They dropped them completely. They were amazed. Next day they dropped it. Because once you get the test of this great understanding that you are the Spirit, you just become so powerful that nothing can overpower you. It has happened with many. Now only thing is that, what is the use, people ask Me, of becoming. The becoming is actually, is the epitome of your evolution. You have to do it. You cannot avoid it. If not today, tomorrow. If you don’t accept it, then you'll have to face the consequences. But you have to become the Spirit. The another very great thing it happens, that the light that you have, gives light to others. You can enlighten their lights. Their candles are not yet ready, then you know how to put them right. You can enlighten their lights with your light, without obliging them. Like the sun shines. It doesn’t say "I’m shinning, I’m doing all this, I’m creating chlorophyll". It doesn’t. It just shines. But we can say that it doesn’t do any work, or we say he does non-work, a-karma. In the same way it starts flowing through your being, just working out. And anybody says, "Mother, I am thankful", I’m surprised. Because if you are a part and parcel of My being, if this is my finger, if I try to soothe My finger, is not going to thank Me. In the same way, there is not the other left, you just start feeling another person upon your fingertips. That means you become again collectively conscious, and later on as you grow you become cosmic conscious. That means that you know how to handle even the elements. But first you have to become collectively conscious. When you become collectively conscious, suddenly a tremendous compassion and love starts growing in you. You feel so nourished yourself that you want to give. You have so much that the charity just makes you feel that you should give. And when this charity starts flowing, then you are amazed how it works. We invite people to our house to create good relationships. We give them food, we give them this, try to make good relationship. Here the relationship is spontaneous. You don’t have to say about it, it just exists. You feel it that is there. I’ll give you an example of a girl who went to Sicily and she was feeling very lonely she said "now what am I to talk to these people, you see, there is nobody here who is a realized soul". She was feeling very lonely. Suddenly she felt some vibrations around her. She turn around and she saw another lady sitting there. She said, “Are you the child of Mother?" She just got up and grasped her, she said “Yes, I am". "I could feel your vibration, you could feel mine" And just they understood each other, that they were, they had never met before, their language is very different, they were from two different countries, they had nothing to do with each other. But the love and understanding, that they had, that all these identifications drop off, that you are an Italian, or you are an Indian, or you are an American you become a human being, and a super human being who can feel others. This knowledge is not new. It was a secret knowledge for some time. In the sixth century in our country, a great incarnation came as Adi Shankaracharya and he talked about it openly. And after that also, we had many poets who talked about it. Hundred years back, William Blake came in. And he said all about it, so clearly, he's such a seer, that he beats all the sears, everywhere. The amount of precision he has used, because perhaps he felt that if Western mind has to understand, they need precision. Even My house he has described, exact place he has described. Even what Sahaja Yogis will be doing, where our ashram will be in London, what places I’ll be visiting, I mean to such a detailed thing. And surprisingly, we discovered all these after we have been to that place, after we have done it. Like in London, we had our ashram, and it was a very dilapidated house, bombed. That he has written down. It will be a house, ruined house, because people didn’t have so much money. So, and then I laid the foundation. And he said "the foundation will be laid in Lambert, come to Lambert. Her sinews vibrated. He used the word "Her" all the time. And the clear cut picture he has given. But people called him crazy, that he is a psychological case. Because they don’t have that super consciousness to understand. But if you ask any Sahaja Yogi, he understands him very well. So even only 100 years back, there was someone who talked about Me. I would say 70 years back, somebody talked about Me, in India. But people at 14 000 years back, have also talked about Sahaja Yoga. So you can imagine that it is not that today I've just started coming out of the blue, and some sort of a neo business has started. Its a traditional growth, in a very traditional way, respecting all the establishments, not to demolish anything. But whatever is not correct, drops out by itself. All that is useless drops out by itself. In the living process, even a flower has to drop out its [chalis] if it has to become the fruit. In the same way everything works out so naturally, the way it grows, that you are amazed that at the end of it you remain pure Spirit. Your eyes become innocent. There is no lust and greed in it. What Christ has said, "Thou shall not have adulterous eyes", that innocence is awakened within you and you just become, become innocent. Becoming innocent is not possible otherwise, but you just become innocent. You become really childlike. Your whole attitude towards life becomes childlike. Now some people may say that, "When people become like that, Mother, then what happens to our business?" There was a girl in San Francisco, an Indian girl who had married another Indian. And they were having a shop. And she said:"After realization Mother, I forgot about counting this, that, I was very meticulous. But I never made any profits." But now I’m told that they have made so many profits, they are no more there, that they have 14 stores all over New York. So how things [help] you and work it out when you leave it to God, because He is thousand fold more efficient. I mean He is absolutely, we cannot compare Him to ourselves, because He is perfect. Everything is perfect, but you must enter into His Kingdom. If i don’t come to America, how will I know how Americans operate? When I have come here, then only I’ve come to know. But if you see God's realm is such, that when you enter it, you feel you are looked after every moment. How He guides you, how He watches you, in the smallest way and in the biggest way, it's most surprising. It's not easy to understand His ways. One of the examples, I don’t know, if Warren has told you. Did you tell them about the Bedford example, Warren? No. I must tell you this one, so that you’ll understand His ways are so great. I was in Bedford one night, and we had about 600 people there. I was speaking to them, about 7 o’clock I was there, till about 10 o’clock. At 8 o’clock about 10-15 miles away, one boy fell down in a ditch, in a sense that there was a bridge and he fell down very low, with his motorcycle. And when they sent for the ambulance, he just walked up and came out, so they were quite surprised that how could he come. So they took him in the ambulance to the hospital, and the police also came. Then he told them, that "A lady, Indian lady came in a white car - I have a white car - and She came down and She healed me completely". But She said that, "At the base of the spine there is still problem, you come and see me at my house." And She went away. But the people who were there, they said, "We saw no car, we saw no lady coming here. What is he talking about?" So they noted down everything and next day, because he was completely all right, they were surprised, falling from that distance, nothing had happened. He saw My photograph in the newspaper, and then he said, "This is the lady". And that was at 8 o’clock when I was speaking to so many people. So they were quite surprised when he went and told the police, and he told the hospital people, that they informed the newspaper. And newspaper people wrote to us and one of our Sahaja Yogis, answered back, and the whole thing was in the newspaper. And they were quite amazed at it. Now how this has happened. You may say how can this happen, Mother? It can happen, because as you have got television, God has tremendous organization of television. He has all telecommunication, everything. Don’t think that you can only produce these, these are dead. These are good for nothing. His working is so great that tat-kshane, at that moment. As soon as you see, as soon as you speak as soon as you desire, it works out. Even if somebody just desires, and he is a man looked after God, even he may not be a realized soul. He is helped in such a way. Now then after that they described all such happenings that took place in India, and everywhere. But what I am trying to say, that we are so much proud of what our achievements are. These achievements are nothing, compared to what God has for you. In His realm once you enter, actually you yourself become so beautiful, you yourself become such a dynamic, beautiful, silent flame of love, that you are not bothered at all as to what is happening around, what is going wrong, you don’t get upset with it. You are silently watching all this joke, all this drama, hoping that one day, the rest of the world will also become realized, and the rest of the world will also enjoy the blessings of God. This is what is desired by every Sahaja Yogi, and that's why they forced Me to come to America, that I should come and speak to people here. So we must understand what are the barriers within us, not to understand Divinity Why we cannot understand Divinity? First of all we have had no education. Whatever education we have had was about the tree that is outside. But we have no education about the roots, doesn’t matter. To go to the roots, you have to become subtle. When you get Realization you enter into the roots, and the knowledge becomes yours in no time. You don’t need much time to know about it, because you become the light and through that light you can see. Like you must have seen these people who work in the mines, you see, they have a light placed here and through that they can see everything. In the same way you become the light, you don’t see the light, You become the light, and in that light you see everything. Now, when this happens to you, your attention, as I told you, becomes collective. Your attention starts feel another personality, another person, another person’s, another people, and you start understanding what the problem is. And you can help them, by just doing some sort of a blessing, as you say, and you can work it out. But there are people who are unwise. In this world, there are people who are stupid. They need not be educated. Educated people also can be very unwise people. They need not be very intelligent, or they may be intelligent, but wisdom is an innate quality in a person. If they are wise enough, they know how to handle the situation, to understand themselves and they settle down in Sahaja Yoga in no time. But those who are not so wise, take time. So one has to understand that we have to have perseverance about it we have to settle down into it, absolutely master it, because you become the master. That’s the point is, you become the master of yourself you dont need any guru. You become the master. As I will tell you, the left and the right, is here. We can compare it to the brake and the accelerator of a car. Left side is the brake - Gregoire later you do it, because you see, people have attention very much confused. If you get up immediately their eyes go there. We should keep, you see, he is just taking a photograph. We have seen so many people in this world. For a change, keep your attention little concentrated. But it will happen. It will happen, once you get your Realization, your attention will be very, very nicely placed. Now, when you people know that this has happened to you, and when you become the master, you know the brake and the accelerator in you. But still, actually you are not the master, you are still the driver. And when you are a driver, you automatically do it driving, but still one should not say that you are a driver. You know the balancing of it, you know how to maneuver it, how to act. But then, what happens? To become the master, what do you do? This Realization takes place. Then you become the master, and you see the driver, you see the accelerator, and you see the brake in yourself. And you just enjoy like a master. When you become the master, you cannot be slave of anything. No more slavery, the real freedom lies in becoming the master of yourself. No use mastering others, just master yourself. But that mastering cannot be done by lecturing or by brainwashing, or by talking to you, but it's a happening that has to take place. The Kundalini has to rise and has to give you Realization. This, unless and until this happens we should not say that we know. Know, knowledge is not, when we are not one with the Divine. It’s like a machine or you can say telephone not connected. We have to get our connection first, establish the connection, and then we become the knower. And the knowledge becomes a part and parcel of you. But this cannot happen to stupid people. It’s not meant for stupid at all, neither for the cowardly. It is meant for people who are courageous, who are people of wisdom, who are not given to nonsensical things easily. Thats why in Sahaja Yoga there are two forces working all the time. You may get your Realization today here, but I won’t say that you’ll sustain it. I won’t guarantee that. The reason is, we have two forces, one is centripetal and another is centrifugal. By one force you are attracted towards it, by another force you are thrown out. Because you have come out of matter. And the matter tries to drag you down. You have to master it, in such a way that the Spirit sits on the top of the matter. And the matter doesn’t dominate you anymore. And for that you have to meditate, and you will be in meditation. It's simple thing to be done, there’s nothing difficult. Sahaja Yoga is the simplest method. Sahaja also means, it means also a simple, easy. But "saha-ja", saha means with, "ja" means born, is born with you. But today this is called in India as Maha Yoga. Because before this, all the Realizations took place of course through Sahaj only, by Kundalini awakening. There is no other way. Only Kundalini awakening is the way you get your Realization. Like some people said, there must be some another way. There is none. Because like a seed has to sprout through the primule only, in the same way, in your case, in human beings, the Kundalini has to rise to give you Realization. There’s no other way, but this. It is called as Sahaja method, means spontaneous method. But today it is called as Maha Yoga, because youll find thousands of people get Realization. People who have been with Me in the villages of India, have seen 6000, 8000 people gathered. I mean in New York we have so many people, see how many have come. But if you go to a village, one village in India, you’ll be surprised, people will be pouring on their bullock carts, " There, Mataji has come". Because they know, and in that atmosphere, you see, the fragrance of this good news spreads so fast, spreads so fast, because that’s the atmosphere for that. But where there is so much of mental activity, nothing can penetrate. They cannot see, they have no sensitivity to visualize what is good for them and what is not. So the last chakra is of the 7-th, all the 7 chakras are in the last chakra. And that's how you get complete integrated. Your emotional being, your mental being, your physical being, your spiritual being completely integrated. You go beyond time. You are not bothered about time at all. If you say "Mother, when will get Realization? I say "Just now". That's the point is. But if you don’t get it, all right. If you get it, just now. This Kundalini rises in a split of a second, like a jet it goes out of your head. But with so many people it just struggles [for days]. She is there at the base just trying to come up. It's very difficult sometimes. I've seen some Kundalinis in such a bad shape that it horrifies Me. What we have done to ourselves? By this kind of a tomfoolery, "What is wrong? What is wrong?", going into this and going into that, we have really ruined our chances of our evolution. And then you say you are seeking. How to help people? You have already weakened yourself so much. It takes time. It’s one of my concerns, that so many saints are born in this country, are born in the West. But where are they lost, what has happened to them? Why do they take so much time to take to reality? They are driven to any fake guru to any fake person who is making money, who has got Rolls Royces, this, that. Why should it impress you so much, I can’t understand. Like a newspaper I went to, and they said, "How many Rolls Royce She has got?" They said, "She has no Rolls Royces". Then they said, "We are not interested". Imagine! Such a thing happening in your country is absolutely absurd, that such a thing should happen to people who are intelligent, that God cannot be purchased, He cannot be paid in Rolls Royces and all these material things. They are nothing to Him, they are not equal to the dust of His feet. And what is there to give up? Some people talk that you must give up this and give up that. When you are not holding to anything, what is there to give up? All these nonsensical ideas, that you give up this for God, give up that. God doesn't want all these nonsensical things you give to yourself. But what happens, you get out of it. A thought rises and falls off. Another thought rises and falls off. When you are in the thought, you are materialistic you are mentally thinking and all those things happening. But in the center is a little space, which is called in Sanskrit as vilamba. When you rise above that, then neither you are in the future nor in the past. You are above time. You are absolutely detached. You start seeing the whole thing as a joke. And then you become a real dynamic person. And you create things which are superb and eternal. Like I would say Mozart was a realized soul. Michelangelo was another realized soul. They created all those things because they were realized souls. They could go out and see for themselves what’s happening. All the great geniuses who have lust, all useless, vulgar, cheap type have fallen. They do not stand, they cannot stand the test of time. They have all gone out. See, Christ came 2000 years back. How many artists from 2000 years back, have stood the test of time? He is still there. He is still there. Why? Because He was genuine. He was real. What He said was the truth. That's why He is still there. And that's what we have to understand that once you become that genuine Self, that is you, the beauty, the glory within you. Then you don’t have to worry, you never perish, you get into the eternal life. Now there is no end to my talking. I’ve been talking for now, at least one and a half month continuously. Apart from that I was 21 days out in tour in Europe, just 2 days in between, and again I came here. I have given so many lectures, that in London if you go, you’ll find thousands of them. I have spoken individually about ego, superego, all these things, about chakras, all the details about it, and I’ve gone through all the details. But in these 3 days whatever I could cover, I've tried to tell you, and I also allowed you to ask questions. But yesterday as you know, some stupid people came in and tried to disturb Me. Now look at them. There is, I can’t understand that, because their daughter telephoned to Me, today also, that her father has gone to work, he is not there. So they are cheating their daughter, coming and disturbing others. Abd why are they doing this? Why don’t they understand their child? They don’t believe in God, but the child believes in God, let the child, because that child is free now, in this country. You should allow the child to know about the God. Even supposing she does wrong, I say even if it is a cult, how can you stop? But they can’t see the point. That the point is, she is a different category of a person. She’s a person who’s a seeker. She has to seek. Even if she is making mistakes, they cannot stop it, that is her nature. She will never stop, till she has found it. Because that is a special category. She is not a mundane type of materialistic personality who can take just to anything. She is a person who is a seeker. I know they have done mistakes, they have gone to cults, they have ruined themselves, whatever it is. But she’ll be born again and again and will be seeking. Because she is a person who is a seeker, is a very special category, and that say, special category is at the epitome of evolution. The mundane type of vulgar, loafer type of people, are not meant for God. He is not bothered about that, just a waste product. The people who are seekers are only under His grace and He is only worried and concerned about them and not about the people who maybe are occupying very big positions or anything, I mean My husband is in the, you know, he is a secretary general and all that, but i never went to the UN, at all. I said, "I have nothing to do with your", It has nothing to do, because this is a special category of people. They will meet Me here, that`s what it is. One has to understand that is not what family you come from, what nationality you come from, or what color you have, what education you have had, but what kind of a being, the inner being you have, is important. If that is the seeker, then you get your Realization. May God bless you all. Now can you ask Me some questions? If you want to, but don’t try to dominate Me, that’s not good. Yesterday they misbehaved to such an extent. What happened? Is all right?
Shri Mataji: She has come?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes she is here. She's come, she told the police.
Sahaja Yogi: She's just sitting there quietly with her mother.
Shri Mataji: Where?
Sahaja Yogi: Any questions? Yes. Q: Shri Mataji, when you spoke
Shri Mataji: Yes he is asking it. Q: all about the people from Your country who came to our country the United States, as teachers who, who are [unclear] false teachers and not very [unclear] and not realized, not realized. Are there any in Your country or in our country as teachers who do respect and [unclear] are realized people?
Sahaja Yogi: You’ve spoken of teachers and gurus who come from your country, who are either false teachers or not realized. Are there [unclear] are realized?
Shri Mataji: There are many, but they dont want to come. Lets sit. Q: I mean are there any... Agree that, I understand. There are many real ones also in India. They know about My work. There are many who are real gurus in India. And they know about My work. They respect Me very much. And I asked one of them, who was [real] one, to come to United States, because I could not come, it's dangerous. He just refused first of all. But he [unclear] and within 3 days he ran away. He said "They'll never understand me". Mother they want me to wear some horns. He would not stay. So they are. There are many who are real gurus, but they are hiding themselves in the hills and vales. And they are very strict people, I'm afraid they are not [for us]. [unclear] "Because we have worked very hard to become like this and these people want to take advantage of our achievements [unclear]. There is one called as Narendra Maharaj because [unclear]. They say [unclear] and poor person his legs and hands were broken by other people, you see. That's what they do [unclear]. Till the person [unclear] and they always trouble the right people. So I went to see him, because he was telling people, that "Now, Mother has come, so why do you want to [trouble me]? Go and see Her". And he told Me that, "If anybody troubles you Mother send him over to me". I didn't know he was such a straight man, Myself. So there was one fellow who was torturing My life, in the program often he used to come and ask such questions and, very funny type. So I told him, [unclear]. [unclear] to Maharashtra. He thought, "Oh, Mother [unclear] I went to see him. After one month I saw him, he was sitting like this in the passage, [unclear]. And this fellow had put his legs on his neck and was juggling. And people brought him [unclear]. The whole thing was horrifing, tears came into My eyes. I said, "What's the matter?" He said, "Mother, I must tell you what has happened to me, [unclear] "What happened?" "I went to that guru". "Then why? What happened? He said, "I just told [unclear] things against You". I said, "What did you tell him?" I just said that, "She gives Realization to every Tom, Dick and Harry and She should be careful [unclear] all kinds of things like this. He said, "You are wiser than Mother, are you?" And that's all he said and I slept off. In the night he [unclear] a tiger so the tiger pushed me into a ditch and then I fell down, about 3 feet down. and I broke my legs. And then he locks up [unclear] about three inch [unclear]. He said, "Now, eat it". I was there for 5-6 days like that. Then he sent somebody to pick me up, they wanted to [unclear], treat me and then they said, "Now see our guru". So they brought him there. He said, "Now you take his legs and put them in your neck and [unclear] to your Mother. She is your guru, not me". I was a really shocked at it. Another fellow, a doctor used [to think] no end of himself, and he tried to argue much with Me so I said, "You go and see [unclear]". So he went to see him. And when he went to see him, you see, he told him some sort of a thing, I don't know what he told him, but when he came back I saw he was looking thin. So I said, "Why [unclear]. What has happened? He said, "Every day I had to carry seven miles, two buckets of water". [unclear] I said, "But for what?" He said "That's what You said [unclear] do like this. So I asked this man, I said, "Why did you do like that?" He said, "For a donkey, he must be [brought] this way. You are too kind. They don't know how much we have [worked]. They are extremely strict people, I've seen that. They beat their disciples sometimes. Another one I've met, was called as [unclear], something like that. And he lived [unclear]. And he came to see Me in another place called Ambarnath, where his disciple was living [unclear]. And this disciple took Me to see him there, in the ashram that he had. And he, as soon as we entered, you see [unclear] his disciple told me, "Mataji, my guru [unclear], very badly". So I went there, he touched My Feet and all. I said, "Why did you beat him? He said, you know when going [unclear] he was smoking. So I hit him hard". Then I said, "Really you should not have done it. If you give him Realization then he won't. But his Agnya chakra is catching. And the Agnya chakra is catching, so poor fellow, you see, he does not know to get rid of it, so he's smoking He said, "Who cleared my Agnya chakra? I cleared mine for years together, I've worked hard. Why should I [unclear]? I said, "This is five minutes job". "For You this is five minutes job". I cleared his Agnya chakra. Then on My way back, he told Me that he raised him [unclear], hang him on a well before he [unclear]. [unclear] they take you to tests to much, they do this, but there are many people like that. Another one who was here [unclear] [unclear] Realization and started making money and I didnt know. He came back and he told me that he's doing very well. But the vibrations were very bad and we discovered that he was making money out of his vibrations. And I scolded him, I said, "Why did you make money like this?" He said, "Should I become poor man?" I said, "Whatever you were doing, as if you were a teacher... Why don't you become a teacher? Why do you want to sell vibrations? Did I give you vibrations for money?" He said, "No, but I have to do it". He shouted at Me. But then he went away [unclear]. And he went to see him [in Calcutta], this fellow. And the description is like this, because he came back and [unclear]. He said that, "As soon as I went there he started, and the guru started throwing big stones at me. So [unclear] back to the station and the people from there came and told Me that "The guru is very angry with you because you went to Mother and misbehave, and hes not going to talk to you. So he was quite surprised. He said, "All right, I've never seen this guru, please ask him." Then three times he went there and the guru was beating him, throwing stones at him. But this fellow, you see, I think human beings have this habit, the more you try to discard them, the more they'll stick to you. Otherwise if you're kind to them, they don't understand kindness perhaps. Then forth day [unclear] [unclear] [unclear] [unclear] But this fellow has been doing such wrong things, even now in a way, that he cannot come and see Me because he is making money out of Sahaja Yoga. He is calling himself as a Sahaja Yogi and he is curing people and he is trying to befool them. And surprisingly, he is an Indian but I can't understand why he took to such a [gain]. In India we have so many Sahaja Yogis, thousands, but nobody does like this. I dont know why he is doing like this, really. So this is what it is. There are gurus, many gurus, but they dont want to have anything to do with others. They are very [unclear] people. I am [trying], yet I am not given up. Q: Would excessive fatigue have an effect of your Self Realization, or impair your powers of discrimination? Would excessive fatigue impair your discrimination and have an effect on your Self Realization?
Shri Mataji: Excessive what?
Sahaja Yogi: Fatigue, tiredness. Excessive physical exhaustion.
Shri Mataji: Excessive fatigue if you have is very simple to get rid of it. You see what you have to do, when you are having this fatigue, your right side is exhausted, all right? When put your left hand towards the photograph, because in the beginning you have to use My photograph. Later on you need not, but in the beginning. Even if My photograph is not there, you can put the hand, and raise your left side like this. Left. Raise the left side to the right. Like this. And put it here. Even for a heart attack it is very important. Even if you have heart attacks as hearth is [unclear] you can raise your left side, raise it up take it out from your head and put it down. The fatigue will go away, you get balanced. But one should not go to extremes in Sahaja Yoga. You should work to a point then finish off. But once the energy is established, connection is established [unclear]. We are very resistant, quite a lot. Look at Me. Q: I have something that is in away question but it's difficult for me to put it in that form so I would like just say something that that might make it so. I was listening with a friend yesterday, and listening just some wonderful music, and, and I had, I had some moments of, of real feeling, of real, and some more realization and sense of the beauty in the world than I have had in the past. It seems to be something that has been growing and developing with what I hear, what I see, as I am still quite a beginner on the spiritual path, but I have been on, long enough to feel this. And, and I was about to remark to my friend that such a beautiful world, and yet it seems that the more the more that we do in a positive [side] in this world it seems, that there seems to be on the, always on the other extreme more problems, more, more... things that are threatening, threatening us. [unclear] and in myself I feel that as I, as I haven't tried to develop spirituality, I feel that sometimes on one hand I have moments of this type of wonders and on the other hand more and more feelings of fear. So in a way, is like an internal fear that I hope that I will survive that exploding on, on the, without destroying myself in this path, and in a larger sense I hope that the world will survive, this period of so...SY [unclear] The basic conflict between what we see as a [unclear] consciousness and the beauty of things, for example the music he was listening to yesterday made him closer to [unclear]. But yet on the outside he sees that struggle, that conflict, that fear and [he things what's the] solution and how the Realization....
Shri Mataji: You see that is what I say that unless and until the Realization is established, you don't become the master of the situation. Now wone must know that if you see a conflict or anything you dont know how to master it. That is the point is. But if you somehow get your Realization established, then what happens is that you are out of it. Because you are out of it you can handle the situation very well. And you are amazed how things work out. How things work out and how it helps you. So you dont have to worry. You become just the master. Because you are still not the master. That`s why there is the problem. But once you are the master you handle all the situation. Then what you do is to give others. You become so confident, you give others. Now for example now, Dr. Warren went to Australia.
Shri Mataji: Now the amount of centers is?
Sahaja Yogi: Eight. We have eight centers, and at least three to four thousands people were realized by him. So once you become the master, then no, nothing can disturb you. You have no fear because you are the master, You know how to handle. You are the master of the ship. When the ship is seaworthy and the master is an expert, he knows how to handle the situation. In the same way you become the master. That's the point is, you have to become the master. Make a choice. all right? The question is [unclear], please. Yes, yes, you tell. You are the [winner?]. P: Teacher, on our spiritual journey, as we are seekers, how we know a true teacher from a false teacher?
Sahaja Yogi: On our Spiritual path for Realization how do we know a true teacher from a false teacher?
Shri Mataji: It's very simple My child, I tell you to find out. First thing is that a person who is a true teacher he never takes any money from you. He has to give you. He doesn't take anything. He cannot sell. Secondly, the life style of that person is according to his own balance. Supposing I'm a carpenter, then I live like a carpenter in complete [unclear]. If I am [not], supposing I'm a wife of such and such. All right, I live with that. But I am completely detached about it. Thirdly, a person who doesn't give you the experience of the Divine, is not true. Truth is what? Not such mesmerism. Now how to understand what is their experience of the Divine. Because Divine does things which human being cannot do. Like a flower becomes a fruit. All right? Now supposing somebody makes you jump, or shout, or scream, or makes you say some things going through mantras, this, that. Anybody can do, what's so special? Any human being can do it. You can always jump, you can always shout, you can do all kinds of things. Somebody mesmerizes you, it's very simple. But if you get a cool breeze coming out of your head, and through your fingers, this cannot be done. This is divine. Anybody who does that, is a great teacher. Otherwise you become the teacher, now why you want a teacher to be followed? You become the teacher. That is why is Mother's job. Mother is the best teacher I think because she is born teacher. She has to be. And the teacher who loves, who is compassion, Is very difficult these days. I wish there were some [unclear] But they are so [unclear], so difficult. Anyone of them takes My responsibility, I would be really happy, because to travel all over the world, like this, is too much for Me. But I couldn't find anybody who will give you that love and affection. They get so annoyed and so easily disturbed. that they want to go back to their places, they don't want to face you, what to do? I wish you people become experts and do the job for Me. You will do it.
Shri Mataji: All right?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. What's the vibration, always speak [unclear] and feeling vibrations but I don't have sensation of cold.
Sahaja Yogi: Good evening.
P: I [can] get vibrations.
Sahaja Yogi: What, what [unclear]?
Shri Mataji: Are you feeling the cool breeze? No, that's the point. She said she feels that she is [frightened] of vibrations, but is not always cool. No, no, cool, it should be cool. It should be cool. If it is only vibrations then it's not all right. That means the cool breeze is trying to come in but there is still an obstruction. All right? It's all right. There is nothing wrong, it is all [working]. It will not take much time. It's all right, doesn't matter. Just started [unclear], the feeling has started. But if it is the cool breeze coming in the hands and the cool, not very cool, but cooler type, then it is correct. I have two simple questions. The first is how to evolve [in collectivity as human race] from man to superman. Some people think this was suggested [unclear] India and Europe, that we have done so far. One at a time, yes. What is the first question? Let him. Maybe he wants to connect it with [You]. And is Shri Mataji, the only manifestation of the Adi Shakti in a human body, [in these days]. Man to superman. How we evolve, how we are evolving at this stage from man to superman? And is Shri Mataji, the only one who is Adi Shakti in a human body on the Earth today?
Shri Mataji: One answer is...
Sahaja Yogi: Sorry ,in this century. You better ask the question. And get the vibrations as an answer. [unclear], "Mother are You an Incarnation?" Ask the question, "Mother are You the Adi Shakti?" P: Mother are you the Adi Shakti?
Shri Mataji: Ask three times. P: Mother are you the Adi Shakti?
Sahaja Yogi: Again. Mother are you the Adi Shakti?
Sahaja Yogi: Are you feeling the cool vibrations on your hands? P: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: That's your answer.
Shri Mataji: That's the answer. You are comfortable.
Sahaja Yogi: You can ask any question. It will give you cool vibrations.
Shri Mataji: And definitely human beings are, have to evolve. They cannot [unclear] unless and until they get their Realization. This is the way you can find out whether [unclear]. All absolute questions can be answered.
Sahaja Yogi: Same, people can ask, "Mother are you the Holy Ghost?" [unclear]
Sahaja Yogi: Put your hands [unclear]. I think the best you put right [unclear] on the left hand side.
Sahaja Yogi: Close your eyes.
Shri Mataji: Right hand. Right hand up [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: Left towards Shri Mataji, right hand up in the air like this. No, like this [unclear]. Ask it, in your heart.
Shri Mataji: All right?
Sahaja Yogi: Ask it three times. Yes, it's working out [unclear]. Put the hand at the back side, like this. facing like this, not [unclear]. He looks so [unclear]. I could not understand. How are you? Feeling all right? What a simple thing has worked out, yes? You should come and see Me again to see about it. [unclear]
Shri Mataji: You are coming to the second?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes. We are having a seminar, at the weekend. about eighty miles from here. Very nice place. And i don't know, whatever it is. And those who want to come, should give their addresses to Dr. Warren. And today is the last day. And I'm afraid I have to say good bye to you. I hope I'll try to come next year, but I can't say that I'll be here. But in any case, let's try to get Realization. So we put our hands again, like this, and sit comfortable.
Sahaja Yogi: [You take your shoes out]. Today I think all of you have [unclear] on the heart, [little while]. On the heart, more on the heart. Put your left hand towards Me, and right hand on the heart. And close your eyes, putting both the feet on the ground, separately. Separated from each other. Just put them on the ground. Now put your hand on your heart, and just close your eyes. Just close your eyes. Close your eyes. Heart. Now, today, as it is the last day, let's jut be [receptive] about it. And you have to say, in your heart, with full confidence, "Mother, I am the Spirit". Say it twelve times. You can feel the cool breeze coming out of your head, most of you. It's working very fast today. Let's see if it is there. Put your left hand towards Me. You can feel it first, and then with the right hand. See if the cool breeze is coming. All right? It's there. Most of you [have got]. I'll tell you how to raise your Kundalini. Today it has worked much faster. But those who have not felt the cool breeze we'll see them [after]. First of all, put your left hand in front of your Kundalini. Don't get upset if you have not felt. You'll feel. Because [unclear]. Now left hand in front of your Kundalini, and right hand has to be moved here, front, below, front. Like that. We have to raise it now, ourselves. Watch your hand. Now, make your shoulders loose, and push back your head, and give them twist, and now a knot. We have to do it three times. Watch your hand with concentration, left hand. Now loosen and put the twist. And with a knot. Third time, 3 knots [have to do]. One, two and three. Now see if you are feeling it. All right? You can put up your hands, in the air. And now put up your head, and say, "Mother, is this the Holy Ghost?" or we can say, "Is this the breeze of the Holy Ghost?" Is this the chaitanya lahari of the Adi Shakti? Ask the question thrice. [All you feel it?] Now let's see if you have cool breeze in the hand. All right? Got it? Those who are not feeling it? All right, you see Me. Let's see them. They are not feeling it. One or two. The Sahaja Yogis will come and see you, all right? [But you get it out, you get it all right,] there's no problem. Must be some problem there. Who is the gentleman there? There's one gentleman there. Can you see [unclear]? Dan, are you there?
Shri Mataji: This gentleman there.
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]