Interview With Greek Journalist And Talk With Sahaja Yogis 1990-03-04
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
4 March 1990
Interview
Greg and Cheryl Bradshaw's house, Melbourne (Australia)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
Interview with a Greek Journalist, at Greg and Cheryl Bradshaw's house, Melbourne (Australia), March 4th, 1990
Shri Mataji: What lotuses! Very surprising!
Interviewer: I’ve heard that You’ve been brought up in some of – I’m a Greek descendant myself, I was born, my life birth [unsure] in an island in the Aegean Sea. And I’ve heard that You’ve been to Greece.
Shri Mataji: Oh, Greece is tremendous! Tremendous people, Greeks. You see, they’re very traditional. They’re very traditional people and they understand this, you see, and you had such great philosophers like Socrates. So, I mean, is all in-built within them absolutely and they’re very subtle people also. They understand serenity. I mean, in the whole of Europe I never heard this word anywhere except in Greece, the word serenity. And it’s beautiful.
Interviewer: Could you tell me what’s the record of your philosophy?
Shri Mataji: All right. The, you see, the philosophy is actually the practical side of it. Whatever has been the philosophy so far that you have to know yourself: ‘Know Thyself.
Also Socrates said the same thing and Christ said the same thing, that you are to be born again. All the scriptures, all the saints have said, ‘You are to be born again’ or ‘You have to know yourself.’
Now how to do it? You see, how to achieve it was the problem which now is being solved. Not only that is solved for one person but solved for many because you can do it en masse because we have a power within us. I think the Greeks knew about it because they called this triangular bone as sacrum, meaning sacred. So, they knew there’s this power, sacred power inside that and this is the power when is awakened and passes through six subtle centres, pierces through your fontanel bone area, you get in touch with that All-pervading subtle Power about which all these saints have talked. And then you start feeling the cool breeze on your finger-tips. Also, you start feeling the cool breeze on top of your head. Then this power is your new dimension to your central nervous system. You see, early Christians called themselves ‘Gnostics’. ‘Gna’ in Sanskrit language means to know and we used to call it same thing.
Interviewer: How do you get to know yourself?
Shri Mataji: Ha, yes. Now this is what happens that yourself is, the seat of yourself is here, but is reflected in your heart. And as soon as this happens, first of all, you come to know about your subtle centres which are within you – which you do not know so far, on your finger-tips you know. These are all sympathetic nervous system centres which are expressed on the right and the left hand you see. So, whatever is the problem you can feel it on your finger-tips, so you know at least the centres that you have. Now these centres are for your physical, mental, emotional and spiritual being. So, immediately you find out what’s the problem with you. Then also you develop another dimension on your central nervous system that you become collectively conscious, means you can feel others. You can feel everyone what’s the problem with that person, only on the centres. When that happens and if you know how to correct it, you can cure diseases, you can cure mental troubles. And whatever is promised, then you become the Spirit, you become the witness and you become the peaceful personality, and also you become joy.
Interviewer: But in practical terms, how do we start, what do we do first?
Shri Mataji: It’s very simple. It’s a, it’s a living process of evolution.
As we have become human-beings, we can also become super human-beings, not so difficult. But only it’s like this that one enlightened, one enlightened candle can enlighten another, that’s all. So, supposing I,
Interviewer: I want to be enlightened.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you do.
Interviewer: What do I do?
Shri Mataji: Nothing, you just have to put hands like this and you get it. Once you get it, you just practice it a little bit and understand all the permutations and combination, then you can give it to others. It’s so simple as that.
Interviewer: You believe that there are no problems, that there are no problems that human-beings cannot handle. Is that so?
Shri Mataji: So many problems. First of all, they are not at all collective by temperament, they are collective outside. Now supposing, you follow any religion, any religion whatsoever, you can commit any sin, there’s no bondage.
But once it happens, you just become absolutely righteous, just don’t do wrong things. You become so powerful and so compassionate; So many diseases which are incurable are cured by this.
Interviewer: Could You explain little bit on this?
Shri Mataji: How it happens?
Interviewer: How it happens, yes.
Shri Mataji: Okay, it’s very simple. Like this is the left and the right side, left sympathetic and right sympathetic. In the centre is the parasympathetic nervous system. Now this, these are the centres, you can say, at different positions in the spinal cord and it’s all them play [?]. Now what happens that, any diseases caused by the constriction of these centres. Now supposing you are using your left side – means you are very emotional, cry too much, think of your past and all that –
Interviewer: Exactly.
Shri Mataji: Supposing, supposing. [Laughter]
Could you take it further from that side?
Shri Mataji: That’s exactly what
Sahaja Yogini: Ho, that’s all offensive somehow [unsure]
[Inaudible]
Interviewer: Tell me more. [Laughter]
Sahaja Yogini: I just keep doing and I’ll do it again [unsure]
Shri Mataji: [Laughter]
Interviewer: Yes, I’m very emotional, how can I go over it? [unsure]
Shri Mataji: I could see that. On your centres I can feel that you are an emotional personality.
Interviewer: Yes, I don’t like to obey it, how do I cope with the situation?
Shri Mataji: That’s what I was saying. Now what happens, the right side is the one which balances it here – now the left and the right. But you start moving out because you use too much of left. So, the control of the right is gone, the balance is lost. Apart from that, sometimes you may just break and then all kinds of diseases can start on it’s own and you cannot control it because there’s no connection with the whole.
Interviewer: So, you need what, self-discipline?
Shri Mataji: No, nothing. You just have to get Realization so that this power, which I call as Kundalini, which is placed in the sacrum bone, rises, passes through this and integrates them. And pierces through this so that you become in contact with the mains, you can say. Like any machinery has to be in contact with the mains. You become in contact with that all the time: you feel very energetic, very dynamic and very compassionate, very righteous and you enjoy your virtues.
Interviewer: So, what do I say to my readers that they want to be enlightened? How do they start? I still don’t get it.
Shri Mataji: You just come to My programs and it will happen. I, I’ll do it for them and then they have to do it for others – that’s all. It will work out in the programs.
Interviewer: I believe You are travelling all the time and that You’ve been in every part of the world.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon? Yes, I am, I am.
Interviewer: And I believe that You had a great success but personally, are You satisfied with your results?
Shri Mataji: Very much! Even in Russia I was very much satisfied. Russian people are the best, turned out to be the best! Who never believed in God, no religion, nothing but such a clean slate, you see, wonderful people! Even the government has accepted us there. Even in India because there are three doctors who got their MD from- for Sahaja Yoga, that the way they cured Psychosomatic diseases, epilepsy, asthma, so many diseases; Even in Russia we have cured some people.
Interviewer: What’s the place of the God in your philosophy?
Shri Mataji: God is everywhere, without Him nothing. His Power, All-pervading Power, is his own power of love. So, God is everything.
Interviewer: But You don’t seem to approve of the way the various religious interpret the role of God or the way that -
Shri Mataji: Human interpretations are wrong absolutely because they are money-oriented. But, actually, if you see the interpretation of God, is we should go to the Incarnations, to the people who established it, to Christ. Say, if you are a Muslim, then ask Mohammad. Mohammad himself has said, “Your hands will speak when the resurrection will come,” He said it.
Interviewer: What you’re going to interact [unsure] along with Christianity for instance, I mean Orthodox Christians?
Shri Mataji: You see, Christianity is just a, it’s a – I was also born in a Christian religion so there’s no problem to explain that. But Christ has said that, “You are to be born again,” but it’s a social thing, only it’s a just a social thing and Christians can go to any limit of doing all kinds of wrong things, converting people. Like in India, they came with a gun, gun in one hand and a Bible in another hand. You see, this kind of a things! Imagine Christ!
And what Christ has said in a very subtle way, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” It’s very difficult to find Christians without adulterous eyes, very difficult, so we have missed the point.
We are not following Christ, we are following some sort of a Christianity which was later on made by Paul, maybe, more organisational. You cannot organize God, you cannot pay for it.
Interviewer: Yes. How many Sahaja Yogis there are all over the world, do You know? How many followers do You have?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know. They have already crossed the mark what John has said about 144 thousand he said – we have already crossed that mark. So, I don’t know.
Interviewer: 144 thousand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, maybe more because we are in forty nations.
Interviewer: Forgive me because I ask but in what way Sahaja Yoga differs from the other forms of
Shri Mataji: Yoga.
Interviewer: Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Other yogas are just the wee part of it, you see. Patanjali wrote about Hatha Yoga. He didn’t write about this standing on the heads business and all that, that’s just a wee part of it. But Hatha Yoga means ‘Ha’- ‘Tha’, means you have to deal with your right side as well as with your left side. But they just deal with the right side and physically you may feel fit but such a person can become very dry, might get heart attacks and it’s a very one-sided life. But he talked about the same thing as I did, was to get to your state of your mind in thoughtless awareness and doubtless awareness. We do the same thing. Then another yoga is Raja Yoga is another very prevalent thing which is also [Shri Mataji speaks aside: Nako pankha nahin?] which is also a very, I should say, very mechanical thing. Like, unless and until you ignite the car, the machines won’t work. But the modern Raja Yoga is like this, that you move the wheels without starting the car. So, in Sahaja Yoga we start the car and then we find out what’s wrong with you and then we correct it. It’s the other way round.
And that’s why they cut the tongues of people Raja Yoga and push them back because it happens when Kundalini rises – you won’t feel it, nobody feels it – but the tongue is little bit pulled in, a little bit, to hold the flow of Kundalini. But that doesn’t mean you cut your tongue and push it back and there are people who are wagging their tongues in Los Angeles – some good doctors from here. Horrible things these yogas have done!
Interviewer: And what place does the exercise have in your-?
Shri Mataji: Not much. If you, I mean, exercise should be for just for little bit, not much is needed. If you worry for your health, it’s all right, but not too much of it. Also, not good because that puts a strain on your, on your right side. For example, I have to have lot of water in My body otherwise how will I manage? Because I’m dealing with people and I’m to be protected so, it’s all right, I accept it. But these days everybody wants to be like mosquitoes.
Interviewer: What do You think of the state of the war with as it is today?
Shri Mataji: Ah! Now, one problem is solved because Gorbachev is an enlightened man. One problem is solved to a great extent because he has withdrawn from one side so the other side doesn’t know whom to fight now. So, they are also receding back. So, this world tension is much less in a way.
Also, when I went to Russia, actually they were all these third, this Eastern Bloc was there – all of them – and I gave all of them Realization. When they came back to their own countries, the Berlin wall fell down. So, this enlightenment gives you strength and sense of honour. It just fell down. And, so now, that problem, is partially or quite a lot, is solved.
But the second problem is of fundamentalism. Everybody thinks they are chosen ones, and they think they are the best. They are all just the same, no difference.
Interviewer: Are You talking about the politicians or -
Shri Mataji: Oh, no, everyone, whatever religion they may follow, fundamentalists. You see, “We are the best.” Then the politicians. Politicians, I don’t think they believe in God, that God exists really. If they believed, they would have understood that God resides in human beings and we have to look after them; That’s the first duty. It will happen. People will start coming. We’ll have people like Gorbachev then things will change.
Interviewer: So, You are optimistic of a -
Shri Mataji: Very optimistic, very, very optimistic because such a transformation is taking place and if human beings are transformed, things will be transformed completely. All the mess is because of us.
Interviewer: But are You happy with the rate that this transformation is taking place?
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Interviewer: The rate, the speed. Is it a slow process? Are You happy with the speed, the process, the rate that this change takes place or – is it too slow? Or would you like –
Shri Mataji: It started very slow to begin with because it’s a living process. You see, if you have to produce one flower, it takes time, a real flower. But plastic flowers you can produce any number. But now it’s taken over, I think. The speed has increased very much everywhere. It’s progressing very fast and things will work out. Now, what we need is this certain number of people in any countries and it will trigger out. It’s like that "100 monkey phenomena", as you call it, that kind, that has to happen. A certain number of people have to really become established and the whole thing will be transformed.
Interviewer: In which part of the world Your Sahaja Yogis spread more than any other, than other parts of the world?
Shri Mataji: Of course, in India.
Interviewer: India, yes.
Shri Mataji: India is the maximum.
Interviewer: Apart from India?
Shri Mataji: Indians are very, sort of, they have these basics with them. But I should say the best Sahaja Yogis now are in Austria. There are very good Sahaja Yogis in Austria. And also we have now Russia, I should say. Can you imagine that Germans went to Russia to give them enlightenment! To Russians – Germans! Such a change!
Interviewer: Well, the Western. Germans.
Shri Mataji: Germans are from Germany. We have disciples there in Germany; They all went down, rushed to Russia to help them out. Remarkable!
Interviewer: So, what are You going to do during Your visit here apart from giving lectures?
Shri Mataji: I have programs. I think, we have two programs tomorrow and day after and there I’ll give enlightenment to people. Now it works en masse, it works en masse.
Interviewer: Can You give enlightenment to me now?
Shri Mataji: They are all enlightened people sitting here.
Interviewer: What about me? I’m not. [Laughter].
Shri Mataji: To you I’ll give you, I’ll give you, I’ll give you
Interviewer: I would love to be Realized
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s very great. That’s why Greeks are very good. When I went to Athens – now Athena word comes from the Primordial Mother. ‘Ath’ ‘Ath’ in Sanskrit means Primordial. So, Athens is very much there. And when I went there, you should have seen the hall and even where we had the hall, the gentleman who owned it, came down he said, “Better stop now. With so many people we can’t have it under certain laws, this.” But the people were shouting, big problem there. Two days I had.
Interviewer: They’ are very emotional. Greeks are very emotional.
Shri Mataji: Very, I know. Apart from that, they are seeking truth and very sincere about it. They don’t care for other things much. It’s beautiful people. We have a lawyer there [name unclear] he’s looking after them.
Interviewer: And do You feel that temperament has anything to do with the enlightment? The type of temperament a person has?
Shri Mataji: No, nothing, you get into balance itself, balance is to be established. I mean, of course, as you said, you are emotional and also Greeks are very emotional people. I mean, when they saw Me there were tears in their eyes, you see. And then gradually they settled down and things worked. Most of them got Realization, thousands. Greeks were great, I must say. I was so happy that You are coming here. I was so happy to hear that because I know Greeks are the ones who will touch very fast. So, Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, are ancient people.
Interviewer: You think they are tuned that way, ‘We are seeking the truth and the-
Shri Mataji: Yes, because they are very ancient people. So, they have been doing this, you see, trial and error and then trial. And that’s how they are, sort of, at a point. They have reached at a point where they, they think that now, ‘We must find it out what is it.’
Such philosophies you had!
Interviewer: When were You in Greece, how long ago?
Shri Mataji: About, I think, about eight months back. Eight months back because I travel the whole year round. In summer time I’m travelling in Europe and winter time I’m travelling in India.
Interviewer: You always get the same satisfaction and the positive results with it?
Shri Mataji: In the beginning it was not because too fantastic to believe, you see. People were not so. But still, I must say, everywhere. I started with one lady and now it’s going to be – I started 1970, 5th May slowly. Now it’s about nineteen years completed in May.
Interviewer: What do You do with people that are sceptical about the thing that You’re worshiping?
Shri Mataji: I don’t bother about them. You see, you cannot force it on anyone, you cannot force, you cannot convince it, it’s not mental. It has to be asked for, then it works. It is, gradually they also come because they see the results on other people, they see the results on their friends and all that – the change, the transformation and the beauty of their temperament and then they come themselves. But, you see, we cannot force it on anyone. It cannot be forced, that’s so improper [unsure].
Interviewer: What position, what place materialism has in Your philosophy?
Shri Mataji: Materialism has to have a balance, has to have a balance. You see, we are in imbalance. Like produce plastic, plastic, plastic so much that we produced, so much of mountains of plastic. Then this machinery, you see. Machinery is for us, we are not for machinery; There has to be a balance for everything. There’s no balance and that’s why we have gone into this problem of ecology and all that.
Interviewer: But there is – You don’t see any harm in having some comfort in life which the material things give us.
Shri Mataji: In a way they do, in a way they don’t. It’s a headache also sometimes to have material things with you. But the comfort you seek is of your Spirit. Of course, I mean, you can live very comfortably, no problem. The way you want to live, you can live: you don’t have to run away from your house, you don’t have to live in jungles, nothing. You can live very comfortably, whichever way you like. But actually, I have seen after Realization people seek the comfort of the Spirit.
It’s all right, if it is there, is there. Now, I must say, I come from a rich family. My husband is rich and my parents are rich and all that. So, I have lots of comforts in my family but I can live anywhere. You send Me to a jungle. I can be there. I can live anywhere. I enjoy everything.
Interviewer: So, part of your philosophy is to adapt to various situations.
Shri Mataji: No, we don’t force on anything, just automatically it happens. You see, people are used to alcoholism, drugs, this, everything drops off. Just I don’t tell them. Just because you become the Spirit in the light of Spirit. And whatever Spirit enjoys that’s you like, you’re more worried about that. And matter is for the expression of your love so that you can give it to others. Even when we want to wear good dress or want to keep a good house or anything, it is just, we want to please others innately, not for our sake. We don’t do all this for our sake, we do it for others. Actually, one has work very hard to keep the house clean and make it beautiful and all, we don’t mind. Because really, innately we want to please others. And then ultimately it happens that by giving others or by expression through the matter, we can say, ‘I love you very much.’
Interviewer: Apparently, if you are after progress and you want to progress to develop as a person in your sphere, in your profession and we all know that in order to do this, you have to be tough in today’s work. What do You think about that?
Shri Mataji: You see, love is such a great power that you don’t have to be tough at all; it works.
Interviewer: But we are so tough. So, if you want to survive-
Shri Mataji: No, no, you survive through the power, this subtle power, which is love. It looks after you. You don’t have to be at all, at all, tough.
Interviewer: But I find myself, if I’m kind to the others all the time, the others take advantage of me, in my profession for instance.
Shri Mataji: It’s true but when you get your Realization, you’ll be surprised, you’ll be in the Kingdom of God and everything will be done in such a way that you’ll be amazed how things work out.
Today only these musicians have come and they were telling Me that, “They were very hard with us. When we entered, they wouldn’t give us their immigration because some were not graduates.” The artists were not graduates. And just they saw them and these people, just in their hearts said, “Now we have to go somehow,” and immediately the whole, everything changed and they got it. Everything works out and everyone of them can tell you the story how things worked out in their lives and how everything is so beautiful.
Interviewer: All right. Do You think that mind can swallow, I’m a bit confused- mind can swallow through different things? I mean, sometimes you say, I say to myself, “Don’t do it,” Are we divided, do we have two selves?
Shri Mataji: Yeah, yeah, yes. There’s a disintegration, but with this you get integrated. Whatever you feel, you do it and enjoy it. It’s just that; You get completely integrated. And you know the absolute truth also because whenever you want to find out the truth, you can just put your hands and find out. So, you know the Absolute, what is right. You do that, you’re all right, no problem.
Interviewer: But who’s telling me what to do? I mean, there are two selves within me?
Shri Mataji: Yes, there are already. The one is the ignorance, one is the knowledge but the knowledge has not come into the light. Once the knowledge comes in, you can feel it on these. Then there are vibrations, you can feel a cool breeze and that tells you. Supposing, there’s a man who wants to cheat you. Immediately you’ll feel the heat from that man.
Interviewer: How come that sometimes I struggle with myself. I know that what I’m going to do or to say [inaudible] because I’m an impulsive person. I know what I’m going to say it’s not right and probably it’s going to hurt the other person and it’s going to hurt me as a result as well. But I can’t help not doing it, not saying which gives me the- I realize that there are two people, there are two selves inside me.
Shri Mataji: But that becomes one now so that whatever you do, you don’t mind, it’s all right. If somebody hurts you, it’s all right, you don’t feel it, it’s all right but you say – whatever – Interviewer: How can I suppose the other person, what happens to the other self, that I feel it is there but they don’t always approve?
Shri Mataji: Doesn’t matter, you don’t have to worry, it will all work out. You don’t have to mentally make them approve, it works out, you see. And sometimes the desires, which do not sometimes - you see, sometimes I’m going in the car and we get lost. Then I think, I have to be lost – there’s something to be done here, I have to pass through this lane, it’s all right.
Interviewer: So even the hardships that we have in life they, they have a positive message.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely! Whatever you do, you know that it’s for your good, you just don’t bother. You keep in a very joyous mood and you don’t worry about it. There must be something: "Why am I here? Why this happened? All right, there must be something, let’s see". You become a witness of the whole drama. Like in a drama you are watching – this event has come – now what must be the reason? Then it shows you. In the same way everything starts unfolding beautifully.
Interviewer: What do You believe is the role of human-beings on earth?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Interviewer: What is the role of human-beings on earth?
Shri Mataji: So?
Interviewer: The role, the role? What’s the purpose, the meaning or supposed of life?
Shri Mataji: Is to, is to enjoy that’s all.
Interviewer: And do You believe in Incarnation?
Shri Mataji: Yes, enjoy, enjoy the bounties of God and to spread the news of God and to give Realization to people and to evolve them. That’s the purpose.
Interviewer: And You believe in reincarnation that when we are dying–
Shri Mataji: Yes, we are reincarnated, no doubt. We’ve been born again and again and again and now we have come to this stage as human beings also. And now human beings have to just go through a little breakthrough, that’s all. It’s not purposeless.
Interviewer: So, what happens to me when I die? What happens to my soul? Does it immediately goes to another human being that is-
Shri Mataji: No, no, it depends on. Now you become your own master. If you want to be born again, if you want to save more people, you may be born again. If you don’t want to be born again, you need not be born again. It’s, it’s your desire. Then you become the master of yourself. You decide what you want to do.
Interviewer: OK. What do You want to say to my readers?
Shri Mataji: To?
Interviewer: To my readers, to the people that I am writing the article, the interview that we’re having.
Shri Mataji: I should say, they must now take their Realization, the time has come. I call it a blossom time. It’s a great chance, it’s a very great thing that’s happening all over the world and should happen. And the Greeks, who have come from Greece, should not lose their moorings and their traditions and should get their Realization.
Interviewer: OK. What do You want to say to my readers?
Shri Mataji: To?
Interviewer: To my readers, to the people that I am writing the article, the interview that we’re having.
Shri Mataji: I should say, they must now take their Realization, the time has come. I call it a blossom time. It’s a great chance, it’s a very great thing that’s happening all over the world and should happen. And the Greeks, who have come from Greece, should not lose their moorings and their traditions and should get their Realization.
Interviewer: Thank you. Now, I would like to hear, if You don’t mind, some of your disciples as we go for it [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: All right. Sheryl will do that.
Interviewer: Sheryl, is it possible to have a photo- do you mind, by the way, if your photo appears [inaudible] I’m a journalist and I take few articles for a Greek newspaper who is [inaudible] in circulation. And do you mind having your photo appear in there? And telling people what happened to You and- You don’t, ah good. Okay. And Greg, could you take a photo while She’s talking to me and- [Laughter] I’m sorry, this seems very sort of business to me.
Sahaja Yogini: You want just here?
Interviewer: Yes.
Sheryl: I was, took my Realization ten years ago. I was a very hectic person, very busy, hectic. I had a lot – very busy mind.
Interviewer: Greg?
Greg: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Take your chair there. Better take her chair. This will be nice for her to see Me. [Inaudible]
Greg: Excuse-me.
Sheryl: No, it’s OK. Very busy mind. And after I received my Realization through the Grace of Shri Mataji I went, I felt it all happened within me and the next morning, I woke up and I don’t have any conference, [inaudible] but all my problems, they just, they lashed. I gave up smoking overnight, I gave up drinking overnight, gave up swearing.
All the really gross things that I used to do, just they lashed. And I didn’t know whether that too happened to other people and they said to me that I had to experience it more. It was just so amazing and I felt really peaceful inside.
Interviewer: And it happened overnight.
Shri Mataji: You must show Shirley’s photographs to her. Shirley’s photographs that...
Greg: One with the light.
Sheryl: And then I developed this Realization. [Inaudible] Shri Mataji because I was given it by Her in person. And I went to India and while I was in India, I took these photographs that Shri Mataji will show you. And when we had them developed, it was just absolute great flames of light just radiating down from Her. But whole day I felt like that couldn’t explain it. It’s hard to say with those stained-glass window [inaudible] I saw the lights; it was just nothing. And [inaudible] – improving in the heart.
Interviewer: So how do you face the problems that you have?
Sheryl: Well, let’s say that I don’t have so many problems as I used to, but it’s like, within you, you begin to know yourself and when we do something wrong it’s like an innate knowing that you’ve done something wrong and you’ve got the means to fix it through your Realization. It’s like that. You look at things in a calm way and you are much calmer. [Inaudible]. It’s like a drama going on and if you can cope up with it, suddenly see that you are in the middle, “What am I doing?” You know, “it’s all just a drama.”
[Conversation between Sahaja Yogis]
Shri Mataji: These are the ones [the photos], you see. She was the first to get it. Here is the series you got in the village, and in the village, it’s just think of it.
Why, why did you put another one on this one?
You have to take it out. [Inaudible].
Yeah, but that’s too much for her. Better show her this much only. This much is all right. You can say there are many miraculous photographs I’ll show you later.
Go show her this later.
Hmm, beautiful! Yes, I’m laughing.
When are we, when are you going to, when are you going to send the interview?
Interviewer: It’s for the afternoon newspaper ‘The Noble Herald’ Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Hmm?
Interviewer: For the afternoon newspaper ‘The Noble Herald’. I ‘d rather go and call them [unsure] I want to go to make the interview.
Shri Mataji: Good. [Laughter]
I’d better sit facing it.
[Laughter]
Last night he promised not to laugh, she’s already broken. [Laughter]
Sheryl: I said I’ll try.
Shri Mataji: Your book is very good. You gave Me the book you wrote, you remember, long time back.
Sheryl: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: It’s very good and you should come and see our garden in Pratishthan. It requires lot of understanding and I have no time to look after. But all these flowers can come there, I think, all of them could be.
Now show her this one that she would like, you should say.
Sheryl: This is the one 1990 New Zealand in Mahane, after puja.
Shri Mataji: Hmm.
Sheryl: The New Parliament of New Zealand in Mahane
Shri Mataji: Oh, really. We mean England, the other day, in England.
Sheryl: That’s the summer storm.
Shri Mataji: Here there are three, one, two, three. This is the Kundalini, these are two. But actually, in another photograph this one maybe, let’ see. One, two and three.
Here is also. Pouring of vibrations. Here also there are three: one, two and three but it’s light. Shirley: Fantastic, isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: These are gold actually, it’s a good idea, just imagine!
Sheryl: We got this on photograph.
Shri Mataji: Cameras are clever.
Sheryl: That one was the one, wasn’t it? Is that with the deities above?
Shri Mataji: Oh, no, no, no, no. These are all on your head. You see, this is my name written in Urdu language. It’s my name on your heads.
Shirley: Fantastic!
Shri Mataji: But not this one. There’s another one that this year they were going to give you –
Sahaja Yogini: Sorry, that’s the one on the bedroom in the atrium.
Shri Mataji: Um, look at that! I remember.
Sheryl: That was so dark!
Shri Mataji: Is that the window?
Sheryl: That, this was the window but everything was just really black and there was no flash. So, it shouldn’t not have really come out all right.
Shri Mataji: I know, I know. I know.
This is remarkable. This one of course was there, no doubt. Let’s get this, we have yes.
This one is tremendous. No, that’s not the one of the Deities. They were going to give you in the- I think, I’ll ask them. They have enlarged it for Ganapatipule. They must have given it to some people, I’m sure. Very enlarged ones.
Sahaja Yogini: We didn’t see them, with all the deities.
Sahaja Yogi: I think, they’ve sent them to Sydney. There were some in Sydney, I’m sure.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: I think they’ve reached Sydney but don’t –
Might be. I haven’t seen there. They can make copies. So, I’m sitting here and all of them sitting there, it’s wonderful. And the way they are, there are also angels and you can see also the Ganas and every bride, they have got divine flowers, beautiful flowers all around them. And the boys also are all having vibrations on top of them.
That’s what is your marriage is.
Shri Mataji: I wanted to talk to him about Taiwan.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: See, what they told Me – what’s the name of the gentleman from New York?
Sahaja Yogi: New York, it is Nelson. Nelson Saw [unsure]
Shri Mataji: Yeah, and he wanted Me to go to Taiwan. But what I told him that, “First of all, you people go there and work it out, then I’ll come,” because there’s just raw just now, no one will know there. So, they said, “Yes”. But I said I’ll fix a - they said May is a good month for Taiwan. Is it a good month for Taiwan, May?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji it’s a very mild and pleasant, maybe a little humid but very mild and pleasant. Very mild.
Shri Mataji: Is it? What do you think is the best month for Taiwan to go to?
Sahaja Yogi: Well.
Shri Mataji: November?
Sahaja Yogi: I think, You see, it’s been five years or six years since I’ve been there and if I remember basically is that the bad months are summer from late May until early September. It’s not only warm but very, very humid as they are rainy months and –
Shri Mataji: Early December will be all right?
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, it certainly will be all right by November. The heat is all gone by the end of September. The hot months are finished.
Shri Mataji: You see, because I’m coming to India on the, say, 18th of December. And before that, I could go there and then go from there to India. It would be much better.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: And you’ll have more time to work it out.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Can you write to him about it?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I’ll also talk to him from England.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I’ll fix it up like this. First, I said, “I’ll come in April,” but then I can also go to Singapore, it’s Malaysia. Malaysia now we have 30 people. They came at the airport, I was surprised, thirty of them. All Chinese, very beautiful!
If Chinese take to it, they can go very far. And also, Toronto we have lots of Chinese. Vancouver, we have lots of Chinese now. New York now we have some, not many but they are very dynamic.
So, if you think it’s all right then we’ll do it in the early December.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: On my way to India.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Another Sahaja Yogi: May I ask Shri Mother, is it an auspicious time for me to go to Taiwan?
Shri Mataji: I Beg your pardon?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Is it auspicious time for me to go to Taiwan yet?
Shri Mataji: It should be before just I go – if you could go there and find out what you can work it out. Or you can go earlier and again you can go. But you’d better talk to him and both of you consult what you can do.
I’ve been to Taiwan once, I’ve been there. I think the Chinese are all right even in China, they’re very good to Me. But this news nonsense that has come has spoiled the image of China but the government has tremendous respect for Me. Whenever I went there, they respected Me, they were very kind to Me. But as far as Sahaja Yoga is concerned, I don’t know how far they’ll react, I can’t say.
Sahaja Yogi: The Chinese in Taiwan are easier than –
Shri Mataji: Much easier.
Sahaja Yogi: Than the overseas.
Shri Mataji: Because there’s no suppression on them; They are not suppressed people and they’re doing well now because lots of people are using their labour and things, much better.
You came from where, which part?
Sahaja Yogi: From Kuala Lumpur, from –
Shri Mataji: Kuala Lumpur but I was surprised there are thirty of them now.
Sahaja Yogi: They’re all very new, aren’t they?
Shri Mataji: Yes. But very good, very dedicated and the children know how to give Realization, they know the mantras and everything, so beautiful!
Angie has done that.
Indians are horrible in Kuala Lumpur, horrible! They’ve all kinds of funny problems here. I said you give up Indians. You see, Indians are like uprooted people, anywhere.
Once they, when they’re uprooted from India, they become very funny. I always say, a mango tree if you take it to England, it won’t give you mangoes but also not give you an apple. It’s like that, useless thing.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother, we have an Indian man who comes to one of the programs in John Wayne. He comes and he is from Kuala Lumpur also and he was just in Kuala Lumpur.
Shri Mataji: He’s Chinese?
Sahaja Yogi: No, Indian.
Shri Mataji: That’s it.
Sahaja Yogi: He was there last month and he got in some quite serious trouble with a lot of other Indians there, who are –
Shri Mataji: Very predictable. All kinds of false people have gone there, very stupid, absolutely stupid people.
Sahaja Yogi: He talks to everybody about Sahaja Yoga and TM people got after him, so he is-
Shri Mataji: No but Chinese are very good. Chinese are very good in Kuala Lumpur, extremely alert.
Are you satisfied with that?
Interviewer: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: So, would you like to have your Realization?
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: All right, better take out your shoes.
You can sit on the chair now. Please be seated. Give her the chair, please.
Just, if you can face Me here, it’ll be better.
No, no on the chair. Just be seated.
Now, you put your hands like this, that’s all, that’s all. Just see on her head if it’s already there.
Interviewer: Beautiful feeling!
Shri Mataji: She’s got it already. Feeling the cool breeze already.
Interviewer: So, it’s tingling on my feet.
Shri Mataji: Feet are tingling but hands because you got down from there – but hands you’ve got the cool breeze. Now don’t doubt if they are on the finger-tips, they are. You got it so fast. The only thing is that you’re also very hard-working person. Despite the fact you are emotional [Laughter].
So, but you must forgive, you must forgive people, that’s very important. Just say, “I forgive.” Don’t think of them who they are or anything, you just say, “I forgive everyone.” Just in your heart, “I just forgive them,” just say that.
Good and you are relaxed, no thought. Watch Me without thinking [Shri Mataji shows her bindi] you can do it.
Very simple.
You see as a seed you can put in the Mother Earth; it sprouts by itself so you are built-in within you, built-in; Sahaja means born with you, is there. Only this yoga, the union with the Divine, has to take place. That works out. See now. I told you Greeks are very good.
[Laughter].
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: They’re wonderful, wonderful people.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: All right, May God bless you!
But you must know what it is and you must understand what it is and how to work it out, how to help people, it’s wonderful! You should see these people again.
Can you give her some address of yours where you’re going to have the program today and tomorrow?
Sahaja Yogi: There is one thing I’d like to show you... It’s an interview with Bruna, the necklace that Francis is wearing is Bruna’s work.
Interviewer: All right. Wow!
Sahaja Yogi: And that’s his –
Shri Mataji: What’s it?
Sahaja Yogi: Bruna’s, Bruna’s work, Mother.
Sahaja Yogini: Bruna, Shri Mother.
Shri Mataji: Really.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: Bruna, yeah.
Shri Mataji: You made it! It’s wonderful, ne?
Sahaja Yogini: It is a very beautiful jewel!
Shri Mataji: They all have become so dynamic, I must say, the. She must show her the ceramics these Sahaja Yogis have made. Beautiful ceramics they have made just as this jeweler. Greek style.
Interviewer: So fine!
Sahaja Yogi: Last year [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Remarkable! And there are people who never knew much of ceramic have done such good work.
[Conversation between Sahaja Yogis]
Shri Mataji: Did you tell her where is the program?
Sahaja Yogini: She has the pamphlet with the addresses.
Show her this. You must see this.
Shri Mataji: Sheryl is the one who got all these photographs. Now we have many more but you should see and many more like this. You show her the others.
Sahaja Yogini: This one?
Shri Mataji: Not this.
Shri Mataji: The one You are talking is that one?
In a village.
Sheryl: In a village, in an Indian village and-
Shri Mataji: Oh, there are photographs and photographs and you’ll be amazed.
Sheryl: It started off fine and then it got bigger and bigger. And then at the end Mother put up her hand to stop the light and then after that there was no more light.
[Laughter].
Shri Mataji: There are so many photographs like this that you’ll be amazed and we’ll show you later on. But you must join this and you must develop it.
Is there the photograph in the dark you took?
Sheryl: Shri Mataji, one of the other ladies in Norway who was also at this program took some photographs. She has some in the album but there’s no light. [Laughter].
And they are all mostly the same photographs and there’s no light.
Shri Mataji: I know!
Sheryl: That photograph was taken in a pitch-black room with no light whatsoever, just as an experiment and that’s how it turned out. My flash was really dark.
Shri Mataji: That’s all the Sahasrara, that’s also possible. She has some photographs but we have so many of them. And the one which is with the, on the heart, there’s light. –
Sheryl: Very subtle things, you know, the camera takes photos of the different lights that emit from us.
Shri Mataji: On top of their heads.
Sheryl: On top of everybody’s heads. Now this one here – this is, Shri Mother, this is in Austria also?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no this was in Italy. Now, we were going on a boat.
Sheryl: This was number one, then number two, this is all on a roll; then, wait, number three, number four and then number five. This was all coming from Shri Mataji. Yes, this is the Sahasrara.
Shri Mataji: This is the day when the last centre was opened, the seventh centre. And they wanted to have the celebration on the 6th but it was on the 5th. So, they said, “6th is a Sunday everybody will be there”. And we were in a boat, suddenly this happened. One fellow got it, everybody doesn’t get.
Sheryl: And this and Shri Mataji is just here, next is –
Shri Mataji: This is my head and these look like when we enlarge them, they look like as if the bones are cut, you see, little, little things, these.
Sheryl: That’s all. And this is the sort of photographs –
Shri Mataji: This one is also there, the one with the light in the heart.
Sheryl: The light coming from the heart chakra.
Shri Mataji: This was in say, Ganapatipule.
Sheryl: This one here was the light from the heart?
Shri Mataji: This is from Ganapatipule.
Interviewer: Ganapatipule.
Shri Mataji: It’s in a, on the sea-shore, in India.
Sheryl: Would you like this for your paper?
Can she print this in her paper?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, why not.
Interviewer: Which part is it?
Shri Mataji: Which part? This is in India, in Ganapatipule.
Interviewer: India, hmm. The next, were You meeting people there or You were only alone?
Shri Mataji: No, no we had some people also around. They just took My photograph.
Sheryl: And then this light.
Shri Mataji: One is there with on the hand. Now recently there’s one behind Me. Then another one on my feet, it’s the moon, as a complete moon.
Sheryl: There’s lots and lots more. We haven’t got them all here but we’ve seen this one here was in New Zealand and Shri Mataji made the neck [inaudible] and the new Parliament of New Zealand appeared– you know how the new parliament of New Zealand looks like in the honey.
Shri Mataji: Also, in England the whole of England came in, yeah.
Sheryl: Came into the honey, yes after New York.
Sahaja Yogini: And the one, the face has come in the clouds on the sky.
Sheryl: Yeah.
Sahaja Yogini: You can see it in the clouds. Everything even-
Shri Mataji: Event the-
Sahaja Yogini: Even I teeth and all.
Shri Mataji: Teeth. Also, I used to wear this thing here [nose ring], that also came in.
[Laughter] I don’t know if you have that one or not.
Sheryl: And somebody just took a photo of the clouds. Now, it’s often in Sydney for the big enlargement [inaudible] this and this.
Interviewer: Are you Mother’s companion?
Sahaja Yogini: Ah, we are children. [Laughter]
Sheryl: So, there’s many more miracle photos like that.
Somehow the camera sees things more than people can see.
Sahaja Yogini: How long tomorrow’s lecture is going to last?
Shri Mataji: It takes about one hour to explain everything because somebody else will say something and then I’ll say. And then about 15 minutes for Realization only. You took hardly any time. You just opened your hands and you got it. [Laughter]
So, the people who are good like you, it will take only one second
[Shri Mataji laughs]
If they have to be like you, seekers, you see, they have to be truthful people. Seekers, it works out. But supposing they are sick or something, there’s conditionings, this, that, it takes little time but not much.
[Aside, in Marathi]
Shri Mataji: [About the Indian Sahaja Yogini] Her sister has come all the way but she’s busy with Me. I said, “You go and see her.” She said, “No Mother, I will be with You.”
Her sister has come all the way from India but she wants to be with Me. [Shri Mataji laughs]
All love, you see, just love. In that, it feels so protected and God loves you, you see. He doesn’t want you to suffer; This is a nonsensical idea of Christianity. Actually, recently Thomas, when on his way to India, was in Egypt. And he wrote all the treatise about Christ and put it in a big jar. They opened it and in that they found so many things written just what I say. He said, “God doesn’t want you to suffer. Christ has suffered for you, you don’t have to suffer.” So, the whole thing is absolutely challenging the theories that, “You must suffer for God.” It’s all nonsense. Why should you suffer? He’s your father. No father wants his children to suffer and He’s the Father of all the fathers.
Why will He want you to suffer? It’s illogical.
Interviewer: And the priests say that they seem to go, to have a good time like on Saturday you are not allowed to go out and have a good time because next day you have to go to church. What do You think about that?
Shri Mataji: Nothing of the kind.
Interviewer: Hmm?
Shri Mataji: You see, [Laughter] Sunday is for enjoyment actually.
[Laughter]
All these things are, I don’t know why they say, “You are sinners, this.” This this is not the way to talk to people, I mean, to make them feel miserable! And the first condition in Sahaja Yoga: you are not to feel guilty for anything. After all.
Interviewer: Even if you do something wrong?
Shri Mataji: Wrong, doesn’t matter, after all you are human beings. God cannot do anything wrong but human beings can do, so it’s all right. At a human level is all right. Once you get your enlightenment, then you don’t do wrong things, so you are excused. Forgiveness is there. You have to be completely forgiven.
You see, this All-pervading power of God’s love is an ocean of forgiveness. What can we commit? Mistakes, all the time to feel guilty. It’s all money-making proposition, I think, that, “You have committed sins, all right, you pay us the money and sins will be wiped out.” Common with every religion. Even in India they do the same thing. “Now, You committed a sin. All right, you give us these things, so we’ll tell God, it will be all cleared out.”
[Laughter]
Interviewer: If you confess, yes, and then, you see, your sins will be wiped out.
Shri Mataji: After all we must understand God. He is love. He is love and He understands human beings, He loves them. He doesn’t go on punishing all the time, that’s not His job.
Actually, we in our, in our stupidity, we are the ones who create problems. He does not for each other.
Interviewer: How many hours do You sleep?
[Laughter]
Sheryl: Not many.
Interviewer: Not many!
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: It’s very little. Also, I eat very little, sleep, very little. Also, you see, I don’t need much sleep as I’m quite full of energy. I’m now 67 years of age.
Interviewer: Amazing! Nice!
Shri Mataji: And I travel so much this - last night I must have slept at 2 0’clock or 3 0’clock.
Sahaja Yogini: Two 0’clock.
Shri Mataji: Two 0’clock I must have slept.
Interviewer: Up again three hours later.
Shri Mataji: Yeah, I was up.
Interviewer: So, You have energy with five, six hours of sleep per night?
Shri Mataji: Daytime I sleep for a while, always, little bit. But night time, I can keep awake. [Laughter]
And I can travel. I have no problems of this jet lag and all that. Never I have these problems. Supposing I’m travelling now – some people who travel they have to adjust to the timing, the timing adjusts according to my sleep. There’s no problem, nothing. Travelling is no problem. I travel such a lot, such a lot I travel. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with travelling, wrong with ourselves because you just think you are there. You are there, that’s all.
Whether you are travelling or sitting at home or going anywhere, you are there, that’s all. Why to think you are travelling? If you start "you are travelling ", then you start feeling that "Oh, something you have done ". You’ve done nothing, you’re just there.
Interviewer: And where do You get all this energy from?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Interviewer: Where do You get all this energy that?
Shri Mataji: It’s coming, you see, it’s there, all-pervading. You are connected to the mains now.
You should have given her some tea or something like a.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi]
What would you like to have, some cold drink?
Interviewer: No, I’m fine, thanks.
Shri Mataji: What?
Interviewer: I’m fine.
Sahaja Yogini: Some tea or –
Interviewer: No, thanks.
Shri Mataji Something? Anything you’ll have. You have come to Mother’s house, better have something. [Laughter]
Interviewer: I’ll have a cup of tea, thanks.
Sahaja Yogi: Better give her something good to drink.
Interviewer: I’ll have a cup of tea, thank you.
Shri Mataji: You made something else?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother. I was making [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Let Me see
[Inaudible]
Sheryl: This’s called is all the Australian [inaudible] of jewellery.
Shri Mataji: Really?
[Conversation with Shri Mataji in Marathi]
The combination is tremendous but the central one is not the real stone.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Is real?
Sahaja Yogi: Real emerald.
Shri Mataji: All of them are real stones?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Diamonds?
Sahaja Yogi: Real diamonds.
Shri Mataji: This emerald is real?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, the emerald-
Shri Mataji: Very delicate, I must say. It’s a very delicate thing you have done, really.
Interviewer: Yes, your designs are very delicate and –
Shri Mataji: The combination, you see.
Interviewer: And they have a rhythm.
Shri Mataji: Just have a look. It’s very delicate.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible].
Interviewer: What is the material around the-
[Conversation with Shri Mataji in Marathi]
Interviewer: Are you going to interview?
Shri Mataji: Yes, please.
Sheryl: Can I stay. Can I hear?
Interviewer: Oh, yes, please.
Sahaja Yogini: I have some questions, Mother, I have to put down.
Do you have cot deaths?
Shri Mataji: Really?
Interviewer: Yes, very big problem in Australia and in Melbourne.
Sahaja Yogi: They’re spending quite a lot of money trying to research it, Shri Mother.
Shri Mataji: They won’t believe Me if I tell them the truth.
Sahaja Yogini: That’s what I heard Mother if You could find a way of explaining.
Shri Mataji: Yes of course, we can. But will they listen to Me, I don’t know if they will listen to Me;
Sahaja Yogini: Once it’s in the air, it must help.
Shri Mataji: All right. [Shri Mataji reads the questions]
The first question is, “Why was Melbourne chosen for the initial spiritual education experiment?” It was not chosen, it was Sahaja, you see.
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know if the readers of the Herald would understand that.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: You see, in the sense that, we had a building and we had students and we had teachers. So, naturally, the whole thing worked out.
Moreover, I think, Melbourne has a temperant climate, in the sense that, people are not extremist also here. There’re many people who do not drink and go to extremes and – I mean, good parents. They are temperant because of their children, you see. So, that was also a good thing: there were good parents here.
Yes, it has been tried elsewhere. We have one in Dharamshala, which is at the foothill of Himalayas. That’s one school. One in Delhi, one in Rome, one in, now, in Milan. Now another we starting near Bombay, Vashi and Vaitarna, ultimately.
"Why did you choose again Russia and why are they excellent Sahaja Yoginis? "
Again, I never chose it, as far as I know. [Laughter.] It so happened that, it’s a- just a chance.
One of the Sahaja Yogis, it’s Yogi Mahajan. He met an ambassador, Russian ambassador, in Delhi who asked him, "How are you so peaceful and relaxed and all that? Who is your guru?" Sort of thing. And he said about Sahaja Yoga. Because they were surprised, he was in a party and everybody’s getting drunk and saying all kinds of things and. So, they were surprised at him the way he was looking at everyone and the way he was absolutely so dignified. Then they asked the question, you see, and he said that such and such thing.
Then he said, “Can She come to Russia?” And there was one minister that time there, who also was interested. And they both got Realization.
Interviewer: A Russian minister came?
Shri Mataji: The minister, yes, he got Realization. He was amazed that how could Yogi and another, just a disciple of Sahaja Yoga, could give Realization. So, he told him, “Can we get Shri Mataji here, to Russia?” That’s all. And we arranged the timing and I was there. And we had some Russians in London Bogdan you know; He actually is an, he is Australian but he’s Russian and also, he’s a doctor. So, we sent him first, we sent him first, few people went there.
And they worked it out and I was surprised that they were, as if they were waiting for Me. You know, there were two thousand people on the first program we went to, outside and two thousand inside and they said, “No we cannot go inside because there’s no room.” My lecture lasted for about one and a half hour or so and then Realization, all that. I came out and I find they were all sitting there still waiting for Me. They said, “Now what about us?” So, I said, “All right, you come here and we’ll have the program outside.” Next day, in the morning, the two thousand outside ones and the two thousand inside ones, all of them there.
And then the second question is that:
Sahaja Yogini: "Did the Russian government become interested in Sahaja Yoga teachings and apply it to their education system from there?”
Shri Mataji: Yeah, they did. You see, to begin with, we have got three doctors, who have got MD, in Delhi. They’re very open-minded people, as far as the scientific side is concerned. And they were surprised at the papers we produced. And also, we have so many people cured in Sahaja Yoga. But when they saw all these things, you see, they just said, “We must have it here, on the medical terms.” And the doctor, who was the head of the Health Ministry, invited us to his office and he said that, “I’ll give You an independent charge and do what You like but this the easiest because you don’t have to pay for anything, you get cured – I mean, this is something they could not understand. So, he gave us an independent charge on the medical side.
Then, I think, somebody visited the school in Delhi, perhaps, I don’t know what happened but they wanted, very much, the school on the side. Because they’re having the same problems, as you have, with their children. They have drug problem, there are parents who are separated and children are becoming quite violent. All the same problems as you have. So, they wanted to change the lives of the children. And they asked us if they could, we could take over one school. They’re willing to give us a big building, students, everything and free passage to the teachers and also payment to them and to Me also.
[Laughter] I said, I don’t need, I have money, I can come.” “No, no, no, no we would like to pay for You.” So, the whole thing is so spontaneous, as if they have found something very great they know and that’s what they wanted to implement.
Sahaja Yogini: Can You explain the nature what is so different about Sahaja Yoga education than normal education?
Shri Mataji: Other schools?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You see, in other schools, they just give mental studies to children, only mental. But they don’t teach then to respect themselves and to respect others. Minimum of minimum they should have taught, that is not there. They don’t even respect the teachers. Also, the teachers may not be of that quality to command that respect. Possibly, I don’t know what is the situation. Now, in Sahaja Yoga when the children come in, first of all, they are all given Realization, their parents are given Realization. As a result there’s a transformation and children become extremely obedient, respectful, sensible, tolerant and they’re so beautiful. And as you know, there are many children these days born as Realized souls. So, they also have a place to go to. Even Russia has so many children.
Sahaja Yogini: Could You explain what are Realized souls’ children and unrealized soul?
Shri Mataji: Realized souls’ children are those who are in connection with the All-pervading power.
Sahaja Yogini: How does this make things different?
Shri Mataji: Because that transforms them completely. They become righteous and they become so powerful. They’re not afraid of anything. At the same time, they become compassionate because these are the powers of this All-pervading power.
Sahaja Yogini: Is this why people don’t understand how these children are being born now what their purpose is?
Shri Mataji: I mean, many people don’t know these children, you see, they are born to them. They don’t understand them why children behave like this, why they react like this, why this is – like if you see to the Freudian theories are all absurd – that if a child puts a finger in the mouth, he says, “It’s sex,” It’s not. He’s trying to show that this is the centre is catching in you or in him. They don’t understand how to depict it. So, everything goes to sex, you see. It’s not true.
So, they’re brought up in the right perspective with love, affection and respect. In all these schools we respect the children and teach them that, “You are now Yogis. You have your own dignity and you have to behave like a Yogi. You can’t behave like ordinary stray dogs.” And then they understand the difference: you shouldn’t go on barking at people. They understand that, “We are human-beings, we are not dogs.” So, the way we teach them also the whole system is such a system that they develop their own dignity, serenity, their deeper personality and they mature very fast, mature. They’re very matured people.
Sahaja Yogini: How would ordinary parents have their discover that their children are these born Realized children?
Shri Mataji: From everything. First of all, they don’t tell lies, they don’t steal things, they’re very satisfied, contented but they stand against injustice. I’ll give an example of my own grand-daughter. They went down to Ladakh. My son-in-law, you know, he’s written this book about Himalayas, so they went to Ladakh. And there was one lama sitting on a mound and talking something, wearing some sort of a big Choga, as we call them, you see, and everybody was bowing. This girl couldn’t bear it, you see, but still she watching, she was hardly five years.
And then she saw her parents because, out of everybody’s touching his feet, so they also went and bowed. That, she couldn’t bear it, you see. She went and stood before him like this with her hands like that [Shri Mataji puts her right hand behind her back]. She said, “Aye you, the one who is wearing such a long dress, you’re not a Realized soul. Why are you making everybody touch your feet?” And these two parents were so embarrassed.
Also, once we had a meeting. They invited Me as a Chief Guest for this Raman Maharshi, who was a Realized soul. And all his disciples are hopelessly bad. But they had invited somebody from Ram Krishna Ashram, who was wearing the same sort of a dress and sitting next to Me. So, the another grand-daughter was – they were all sitting in the front line, so many Sahaja Yogis had come. So, she suddenly got up, she said, “O Grandmother, please ask this man with a maxi to get out. He’s emitting so much of heat we can’t bear it.”
[Laughter] And he’s supposed to be a big Vivekananda there, sitting there! His name was Akhandananda, you see. He got, later on he got a cancer and died also.
So, that’s how they behave, you know, their behaviour is something very unique. And they have great affection and compassion, right attitude. But people find them absurd because if they are girls and boys, they don’t like to have dates and things like that, they don’t indulge into sex before marriages and they don’t have – they’re very innocent.
Sahaja Yogini: How can parents nurture these children and look after them and protect them?
Shri Mataji: Parents must get their Realization to understand these children, you see. Actually, these children have ventured to be born to people like that, is rather dangerous. Mostly they are born to people who are Sahaja Yogis. All Sahaja Yogis get children like that, all Sahaja Yogis.
Sahaja Yogini: Will there be another school in Melbourne for these children?
Shri Mataji: Oh, we should try, I’ve been telling you. We should try to have one more, will be good idea. School is very important. These children, I look at them, the society is so bad. They were telling Me children under twelve also take drugs here, you see. It’s such a challenging society and these children will be lost. If you have a proper school, it will help everyone.
Sahaja Yogini: What do You see as the future in Russia now? Will they settle down for a different form of government?
Shri Mataji: Of course, they will. See, there’re two types of people in Russia, I found out. There’re people who are taxi drivers and ordinary labour class and all that kind of people. And there are very well-educated people also, very well-educated, intelligent people, very well-read, professionals, doctors, very enlightened people as far as education is concerned. So, these drivers and all that, they hanker after and if you go there, they’ll ask for an American cigarettes or things like that. Their level is different but most of these people, they just want their Spirit. Now this, these Muslim what’s they’re called as "Ai"?
Sahaja Yogi: Azerbaijan.
Shri Mataji: "Azer", what’s they called as?
Sahaja Yogi: Azerbaijan.
Shri Mataji: Yes, Azerbaijan. They were, when I had gone to Russia there also, they were really rolling in complete wealth. They had big, big beds, that we call as takhatas, as big as this and under, the grape vines, you see, vines and they would take out the grapes and eat like, you see, once upon a time as Greeks did, same style you see.
Interviewer: Yes, I see.
Shri Mataji: Lordly and will have hookahs and all that to smoke. While on the other side, the Afghanis, poor things, are poor people. and there were very rich people there I saw, in the sense that food and wines and drinks and everything, clothes they wear- Russians have very good clothes also, very cheap. You won’t believe how cheap the clothes are. Everything so very cheap there, so very cheap. Travelling is five "p" [penny] for miles together, beautiful trains and all.
Now the problem came in when Gorbachev came that the bureaucrats didn’t want democracy because they’ll be losing the power. So, they created this problem, artificial problem. This is just an artificial problem. They have lots of food, they have everything. but what Gorbachev has found out that unless and until you have incentives, people don’t want to produce more. And in Russia everybody gets a house, everybody. As soon as you get married, you get a flat.
And they have no idea, they think in the West it’s all paved with gold, you see, they think like that, which is not. So, their life was not such a struggling one. But he felt that after some time the incentive to work will go away and was little bit diminishing also. They couldn’t produce sufficient food and things like that, their interests changed. So, he thought is best is to bring democracy by which people will feel that this is their own land and they should work it out and they should have incentives.
Sahaja Yogini: Australia is in the middle of a Federal election campaign. Do You feel that there’re any enlightened politicians among our lot?
Shri Mataji: [Laughter] I think New Zealand had one but he’s no more now. I don’t know where is he gone.
Sahaja Yogini: He’s retired.
Sahaja Yogi: He’s still in the government there, Mother but he’s taken another post other than Prime minister.
Shri Mataji: He’s taken another?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s another, he’s Minister, he’s Attorney General or something like that rather than Prime minister, Mother.
Shri Mataji: They must have tortured his life, he’s alone. You see, for that you have to have many people with you [unsure]. I don’t know. Just pray you get somebody like that. I work with two politicians also.
Sahaja Yogini: I work for a State politician as well and a Federal one so, they’re nice people, I’ve heard.
Shri Mataji: Better give them Realization.
Sahaja Yogini: I’ve spoken with them about You but they are still little bit stand-up collar.
Could we talk of the National Ordination of Women?
Shri Mataji: I mean, absurd! Absolutely absurd. You see, I asked my father why- at least Martin Luther should have brought forth the rule of Christ’s Mother. Why didn’t he do that? And he said, “Perhaps, this was expediency on his part because he thought at that there were Muslims and Muslims would not accept a woman to be something like that. So, just to please the Muslims he must have done it.” I said, “This is the biggest mistake because women are the shaktis, they are the power.” They are the potential power of- and to say they cannot have ordination, I mean, is absurd absolutely. Actually, all this is the work of the Primordial Mother, of Athena.
Also, to say that there is Holy Ghost like a dove is another misleading point. You have Father all right, you have the Son as God. What about the Mother?
Interviewer: Yeah.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Logically! That’s the Mother missing which we call as the Holy ghost, is the Mother. And Christ has said, “I’ll be sending you the Holy Ghost.” How can he send the Holy Ghost? Is He going to send a dove from there or what?
[Laughter]
It’s more with the Catholics or with the Protestants also?
Sahaja Yogini: It’s the end of all church, Shri Mother. It’s split them in half the issue of women.
Shri Mataji: Anglican are from where, from England?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, it was. And it’s a very big religion in Melbourne, very strong.
Sahaja Yogi: In fact, today Shri Mother, they’re electing a new Archbishop today.
Shri Mataji: Your bandhan. [Shri Mataji quickly does a bandhan. Big laughter] But they are funny people, I must say.
Sahaja Yogini: This is the last one, the last thing Archbishop was in favour of ordination and he had a heart attack and died recently.
Shri Mataji: They have gone too far in England. There was this Bishop of York. And this Bishop of York is a person who started talking about Christ as a human-being. It’s all Pauleen Christianity which is, which is being challenged everywhere. Even I read a book that Christ was in India. There also He’s talks of Pauleen Christianity – is all Pauleen Christianity, you see. And Paul, I don’t know why he didn’t want any woman to be there. He himself was a epileptic. He died of epilepsy. According to us he was just a supraconscious stuff organizing the religion.
And when this York fellow said all kinds of nonsensical things about Christ, you see, this Archbishop of Canterbury honoured him in that church. And after that, that church was burnt by- you know that. And that too in such a way they said that, “The electrical charge of this lightning was looming around - people could see it -that church and burnt most of it. So, they say that, “See the Grace of God that the lower part was not burnt.”
[Laughter] And this Bishop of Canterbury was very much, somehow, impressed by Sahaja Yoga, once upon a time, I would say. And also, he sent his adviser to my program. I didn’t know he was sitting there. That day, I don’t know why, I lashed out at Paul how he has ruined Christianity, how he came back as Augustine and all that. I said all kinds of things! And the fellow was so upset! He went out and people asked, “How are you?” He said, “I’m appalled,” [Laughter] because I said against Paul so, “I’m appalled.” I said, “This is no Christianity.” Another person who’s talked against him is Khalil Gibran, Paul. He said, “I can’t understand this strange man”.
But despite all that, this Christianity can only have some sort of a social organization, a club, that’s all. It is not bothered about Spiritual life at all. It doesn’t stop anybody from doing anything wrong.
Just by saying you’re Christians, you don’t become. You have to be actually baptized. Actualisation of the baptise, baptism is through your fontanel bone. You must get the Holy Ghost coming out. And the early Christians were called as Gnostics, those who knew about it, they didn’t have these problems. And Thomas in his treatise didn’t try to portray it.
When is it written there should be no ordination? Who has written this in the Bible? Forget Paul part. Even I don’t think Paul has written that.
Sahaja Yogini: Though a lot of organisations now are calling themselves Born Again Christians and they put the hand on people’s foreheads and they connect backwards and they become very strange.
Shri Mataji: Must be Christ who must be doing that to them.
Sahaja Yogini: They just pass out on the floor and then they wake, when they wake up, they say some strange things.
Shri Mataji: You see, if you do not go to reality, to your Super Consciousness, either you’ll go to the Collective Subconscious or to the Collective Supraconscious. If you go to the Collective Subconscious, you become like that, you get possessed. They are all possessed. Or you go to the Collective Supraconscious in which you see light this, that. You don’t become the light. You just see the light.
Sahaja Yogini: Could You answer me about cot deaths?
Shri Mataji: Of what
Sahaja Yogini: The Cot Death syndrome.
Shri Mataji: Pardon?
Sahaja Yogini: Cot Deaths, the last question.
Shri Mataji: Cot deaths. Will they believe Me, if I tell them?
Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know, Mother. I’d just love to try because the ...
Shri Mataji: You see, there are so many mediums in your country, who are calling Spirits and this Planchet and what you call them also?
Sahaja Yogi: Ouija board Mother.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Sahaja Yogi: Ouija board.
Shri Mataji: Ha! They are more than your insects, I think, in them. [Laughter].
Because the first few who came to Me in Sahaja Yoga, all were infected by that. Now, when you start calling the spirits and all that, where the children are sleepy – actually the culture is funny that the children should sleep outside and the dogs must sleep inside the bedrooms. I mean, we can’t believe it.
Can you believe in China such a thing? They put the little, sweet little children outside the bed and the dogs are inside the bed.
Sahaja Yogi: Children in China, don’t they eat dogs?
Shri Mataji: Chinese what?
Sahaja Yogi: Eat dogs.
Shri Mataji: Eat dogs. That’s better than keep them in the bedroom.
[Laughter].
All right. So, what happens, the child is outside, is fast asleep. In his sleep, from his subconscious area with these people can, when they are using those dead spirits and everything, they may just possess. It’s a long story actually, to tell you the truth, is the soul and the soul is on our back. And this – you have seen after Realization you can see them, little, little loops like that – you have seen many a times. Also, you have seen the Chaitanya, you have seen the power also that way. Now, I have told you that these are the dead souls and these are the dead souls because our soul, which is on our back, goes into seven loops and is reflected on our cells. There’s a reflector on our cell which is called as receptor and all remote control in the body is done by that soul. All remote controls like ductless glands and things like that, the reflex actions and everything’s done by the soul. And soul is the causal of all the elements and it looks after the protection of the spinal cord and the brain and of the human-being from evil spirits and things like that.
Now when these people die, who have got dissatisfied minds and who are cruel, who are ambitious, who are sly, they hang around. And when their soul jumps on our soul, they start controlling. Now depends on what centre they are controlling. Now the proof has come out also scientifically. They have seen on the receptor of a cell, the seven loops and they can’t explain – exactly the same that you see [in the sky]. If you see the picture of that, Dr. Mishra has brought it out – exactly the same! So, when the children are sleeping in the night, you see, these souls capture them and take away their souls with them, because after all they are very small children and the child is dead; They are let lose by these mediums. But the children should sleep with parents then they are protected.
Sahaja Yogini: There’s one more question I’d like to ask You. You once said that people had Poliomyelitis and they were seekers and that was an attack on the centre.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Well, now this
Shri Mataji: Polio I would say.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes. People who had polio are now having a new problem. When is the virus who has gone away originally stay on to your home cells on the spinal cord recur but that recur finally lasted for about thirty years and now it’s dying away or something is happening to it and people who had polio are getting strange fatigues, now they are not recovering quickly from operations, having muscle cramps and pains and it’s affecting about 50% of people who had polio that is in America it would be about 300 thousand people and in Australia quite a lot also, several thousand and-
Shri Mataji: Same thing – same, the mediums, you see. In America there’s openly it’s freedom "na", you can have witchcraft. All kinds of false gurus are there – here too.
Sahaja Yogini: There are three Sahaja Yogis in Melbourne among us had polio and are suffering these symptoms.
Shri Mataji: Oh, that we can correct That we can correct. We’ll correct it, that’s no problem. That’s only Mooladhara we’ll have to work it out, you see, take heat on the Mooladhara.
That can be corrected, no problem. That can be corrected. With the Sahaja Yogis we can but not non Sahaja Yogis.
Yesterday we, day before yesterday we cured a AID patient,
Sahaja Yogini: Oh!
Shri Mataji: Husband and wife, we cured them. But I told them you have to have will power now. Because I have cured before also, you remember that? But they go back to the same bad habits. Now they are married so that’s not such a problem. But I said you have to – and he was a policeman to begin with, this fellow. I said, “If you can just have your will-power, we’ll get you perfectly alright.” Their faces were changed, they were looking so beautiful. So, AIDS is curable; with one candle, both of them.
Sahaja Yogini: Is there something specific that we can do for this polio?
Shri Mataji: Yeah, we will, we can work it out.
Sahaja Yogini: Because it is, it’s affecting me and –
Shri Mataji: You said that the virus is gone, is wrong. Virus is still there.
Sahaja Yogini: Still there.
Shri Mataji: We have to take out the virus, that’s all. It’s not difficult.
Sahaja Yogini: It’s affecting Peter Pattern and [inaudible] Brown, there’s a new Sahaja Yogi in Israel and myself.
Shri Mataji: They were not Sahaja Yogis before?
Sahaja Yogini: Before they had polio? It’s come on [inaudible] too.
Shri Mataji: They got polio before or after?
Sahaja Yogini: Oh, as children.
Shri Mataji: As children they got it.
Sahaja Yogini: Now, it’s affecting people in their age and middle age, so thirty years after the disease is.
Shri Mataji: Polio gets cured also in Sahaja Yoga. Not after a certain age, but children and all that they get cured of polio. So, we’ll see, we’ll see them, we’ll see.
There are so many other new diseases which I described before, like Yuppies disease, you see is another one. And it has come now. I told them about three, four years back. I had told them about AIDS and now I told them about Yuppies disease – it has come where the people are overactive, this, that. Now the conscious mind doesn’t work. Anything you want to do consciously, you cannot do it – unconsciously you can do it. Very serious disease. And if you want to get up, say from your chair, you cannot. But unconsciously you can get up. They’re very common disease. Then over-activity of the children, speediness of the children – so many things that are coming. That I told them, they won’t listen to Me – especially in France because of Sartre who was another fellow who talked about will power that, “You must have, your will is everything and sex is nothing,” I mean, sex is there but emotions is nothing. So, he put people on the right side. As a result, now this Yuppies disease has started.
You have to be in balance.
All right?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, thank You.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you!
Sahaja Yogini: Can I ask You one question now, Shri Mother?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogini: What do you think of the equality, talking about balance, what do You think of the equality of two sexes?
Shri Mataji: Quality?
Sahaja Yogini: Between men and women. What are Your views on that subject?
Shri Mataji: You see, man and women are like two, two wheels of a chariot. One is on the left, another is on the right. So, one has to be emotional, another has to be more mental. One has to be emotional because they are left-sided, women and the men have to be mental. It’s important! We have to have two wheels and you can’t fix left to the right and the right to the left. So, they are as they are. It’s perfect. They are equal but not similar.
Sahaja Yogini: And what do You think of all these movements towards equality?
Shri Mataji: You see, women should understand that they are complementary to men. And they should know how to handle men, it’s a trick.
Sahaja Yogini: How can they be equal when they are complementary, complementary to men? From my understanding it means that it’s something that helps, supports, but you are not on the same standard.
Shri Mataji: No, in nature they are different, you see, but they are equal. Women are spiritually more evolved, much more evolved spiritually than men. Because they, they are the preservers of the society – they create the society.
Men are more towards economics and politics. The theories go on changing one after another. You see, politics changes its own theories, then economics changes its own theories and they go on producing theories after theories and then they again come back. It’s all mental, you see, the mental projections are there. So, the mental projection goes in a linear way, again collapses. It’s like they’ll produce science. Out of the Science, they’ll produce something so destructive. They start on constructive lines, like Hydrogen bomb. You see, it’s like that.
But women are preservers. They must know their quality. They are the ones who preserve. All, they’re chosen to be mothers. I mean, they think, to be mother they think is a very low thing because - I don’t know how this idea has come to you; To be the mother is the greatest thing, I think. I’m a Mother now. Only because I’m a Mother, they all respect Me. And only a Mother can do this kind of work also.
Supposing in My place there was anybody else, any man – take Krishna, Rama, Christ, anyone. Christ would have got Himself crucified, finished with everyone else! [Shri Mataji laughs] Fed up! Then Krishna would have taken the Sudarshan chakra, would have killed everyone! Rama would have taken his arrow, killed everyone! You have to have patience, you have to have love, you have to look after them and I’m the only one, I’ve seen, among all of them who has lived so long. Because I’ve to finish the job. You see, they are not bothered!
Interviewer: But you are not old.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Interviewer: You are not old.
Shri Mataji: You’re not?
Interviewer: You are not old.
Shri Mataji: Old inside. But if you see, I was born in 1923, is a birth certificate is there [Laughter] What’s your age, now let’s see. What’s your age?
Interviewer: What do You think?
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Interviewer: I’m forty-nine.
Shri Mataji: Forty-nine. My daughter is forty-two.
Sahaja Yogini: OK. Thank You!
Shri Mataji: May God bless you!
So, women should not think they are low by any chance. Even if men just laugh at it. You see, Indian women are very clever. First of all, they know how to cook very well and what their husbands like. So, husband is back at home. He has to eat the food cooked by his wife; he can’t stand anything else. Then they know why he gets angry, what are his weak points, on what he gets angry. She doesn’t say anything about, she just keeps quiet on that point. And when he is in a sweet mood, then she will tell him that this should be done but the woman has to be wise. If she is wise, she can handle it.
Interviewer: And where she gets, she gets the wisdom from?
Shri Mataji: Wisdom because they are women. They should not try to copy men, then they are wise. Once they start copying men, then they get lost. Otherwise, they are born wise. Wisdom has to be with them because they have to produce children, look after them, they have to create a family, they have to look after the whole society. It’s a very responsible job.
But here I find, most of the men are looking after the children and the women are going out for work. God save the children! [Shri Mataji laughs]
Interviewer: Don’t You think that men can look after children as well as women?
Shri Mataji: No, they can’t. Like mother they cannot. They haven’t got tolerance of a mother.
They can’t. You have to have that tolerance which only mother has. From the very beginning, you see, when she conceives the childhood, she’s worried for it. She doesn’t worry for her own comfort. When the child is born, till the child is born she gets terrible pains, she takes all the labour pains. As soon as the child is born, she forgets everything. She doesn’t blame the child for that, at all, never. Never a mother has blamed the child for the labour pains she has gone through. But men, if they have to exert anything for the boys, you see or girls, they get fed up.
But nowadays women are becoming more like men, so you can’t say, you see, it’s such a mixture. They’re becoming unisex. So, it’s impossible to find out a woman sometimes who’s so emotionally attached to the children, looking after them. So, sometimes the men might be more emotional but that doesn’t mean that it’s a fact of life. Fact of life is that women are endowed with this wisdom of love. They are endowed, they shouldn’t lose it.
How many children you have?
Interviewer: Three.
Shri Mataji: That’s good. And you’re doing your work also. You’re doing everything.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And you have children too. Imagine without children what this world would be! They are like flowers. All right.
Interviewer: Thank You.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. You had your tea or not?
Interviewer: Yes, I had my tea. Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Thank you.
Interviewer: Thank you, Mother.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mother, before [inaudible] takes You, during the interviews I was going to ask you later about the radio program I’m doing for the ABC about Science and religion coming together. And in the middle of your answers, You spontaneously answered one of the major questions that I had to ask so!
Shri Mataji No, also I’ll tell you about this. I told them, the scientist, about the Carbon atom for the – and we have got Dr. Worlikar and Dr. Misra and Dr. Johan, all these are scientists. They said that, “Mother, how do You say that Mooladhara is made of Carbon?” I said, “All right, you take a Carbon atom and make a photograph of that and make a model. Now see that from right to left, what do you see?” They see a Swastika. They made a model. “Then you make a model and same thing, you see the other way round, from left to right,” and they see Omkara. And from down below, you see a cross. It’s proved.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s marvellous! A Marvellous thing Shri Mother.
Shri Mataji: I mean, Science is what you see and religion is what, which indicates what you have to see further. But religion should be real, not this kind of religion so called. There’s no conflict of any kind. Now we have proved parasympathetic nervous system. Everything we have proved now. How we have medically we have cured the people if there was no combination between them?
Sahaja Yogi: Thank You for those Shri Mother, it’s marvellous.
Shri Mataji: All right. I hope you are satisfied.
But as far as, as far as this question of cot deaths, I don’t know if they will believe Me.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: You must get rid of all these mediums. You have so many in Australia and they are, compared to your population they are too many, I think. And this Torat [Shri Mataji means Tarot] and all that they have and what is. No, they have some sort of a – what’s that Jew stuff is called as?
Sahaja Yogi: Jew?
Shri Mataji: There’s something Jewish they use for telling future?
Sahaja Yogi: Tarot cards.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: Tarot cards.
Shri Mataji: Tarak?
Sahaja Yogi: Tarot.
Shri Mataji: Tarot, tarot. And then this Pentecostals, they are the same. Charismatics are the same and also these Twice Born people. Any fainting means that. Rajneesh’s people, before Me they just faint, I mean, become like stones.
Sahaja Yogini: I bought some Eucalyptus Shri Mataji, I’m trying to get people to plant something else. Is, is that a good advice?
Shri Mataji: Something else what?
Sahaja Yogini: Other than Eucalyptus trees to regenerate the soils.
Shri Mataji: But the Eucalyptus is all right if there is water, sufficient water, if it rains more. But otherwise it drains out the water, it sucks in the water.
Sahaja Yogini: Can they help to make Australia more fertile again with other trees they plant?
Shri Mataji: See, what I find there are too many insects here and that may be because you are so artificially treating everything here. You see, like in India, if we have worms in the garden, we don’t mind because the parrots come and eat the worms. And they don’t eat your fruits. They’re non-vegetarian people, you see. [Laughter]
But when there’s nothing, they eat that. And I’m surprised, you have white ant problem, while we don’t have anything in India now. How they have solved it: there is one, another kind of a centipede, which eats those white ants. But by removing all these things, you see, there’s no balance. In the nature there’s a balance, one eats the other and doesn’t require too much of insecticides. But they won’t have those here, I think. They’re extremely, extremely particular about not getting any worms and things but there are maximum here, I think. All kinds of viruses, this, that – you cannot plant any tree because there are viruses. Or even if you have some good, they are eaten up by white ants and this and that. I can’t understand.
Sahaja Yogini: One of our major rivers is so poisoned that they can’t even get animals drink in it or wash in it or put it on the crops anymore.
Shri Mataji: Waters?
Sahaja Yogini: River, yes.
Shri Mataji: Pollution?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: It’s all due to imbalance –
Sahaja Yogi: In Adelaide at the moment, Shri Mother, they have banned the whole of Eastern half of the Adelaide from using the water from the river Murray. Nobody’s allowed to use it. It’s actually got an allergy worm in it and it poisoning livestock and people. They’re not even allowing them to bathe in it.
Shri Mataji: Also, I think, because of all left-sided people in here like these mediums and all that, all these must be prospering so much.
Well, in a country like India, we don’t have all these problems.
Sahaja Yogini: Also, there are so many more good people.
Shri Mataji: I think, they are good people, they are religious and they don’t indulge into all these nonsensical habits, perhaps. We have never heard of an allergy coming like that or anything. Why do they grow here so much?
Sahaja Yogi: The site is claiming, Mother, that it is the leaking of the fertilizers into the waters that are doing it. But it seems also to do with heat, that on the days when it gets hot, it doubles with 100% per day.
Shri Mataji: We too have, you see, heat, much worse. But I personally think also you used all these seashores and the river-banks for your resorts.
And you insulted the rivers, if you see basically. That’s why you are, you see this new civilization of tourism, you see, tourist. You have insulted the sea, you have insulted the rivers. You do all kinds of dirty things there. That might be the reason.
Another Sahaja Yogi: The river here is going to have a speed-boat racing, water-skiing and paddle steamers, everything like this tourist’s-
Shri Mataji: Tourist things.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: But if you put vibrated water, the allergy will die immediately. It will die, it will go away.
In America, in New Jersey, I was there. The night, first night, there were those locusts, kind of locusts, which arrived. And they are making noises "tuk, tuk, tuk tuk ", all the time. From next day they disappeared and they have never appeared since then. We too have mosquitoes but not to such an extent. I mean, a city like Melbourne should not have any mosquito, whatsoever.
[A Yogini proposed some sweet to Shri Mataji]. I don’t want, those.
These insecticides also must be dangerous things.
Sahaja Yogi: They’re finding, the scientists are finding huge build-up of these insecticides in human brain, Shri Mother. They’ve been testing many women recently and finding people have got accumulated deposits of these insecticides from the food, that have been carried through in the food.
Shri Mataji: Ah, ah, terrible!
Sahaja Yogini: And they think, that’s what’s have been to make the children so hyper-active.
Shri Mataji: Yeah, must be. No also this hybrid, hybrid food, hybrid animals, you see, your hybrid animals, I must tell you the story about it. Your hybrid animals are there in Rahuri and cows from here famous. And I went to see them, you see, because Chavan is in the animal husbandry, I went to see. And our Indian cows just came, you see, very sweetly stood there, I put My hands on them. They had tears in their eyes, very sweet. And suddenly, I don’t know what happened to the Australian cows, they all became violent and came running and started breaking this, breaking that. I said, “All the bhoots must be there the way they were behaving.” I, I just got out of it.
But they have now studied and they say that, "If you have even the chickens from hens and the cocks from Australia or from anywhere, hybrid ones, they’re very funny according to us," .
Because an Indian hen as soon as she sees any vulture in the sky, immediately she’ll say "coo, coo, coo, coo" get to all of them under her thing. But they, these do not do anything, they just stand like that. The chicks are taken away they [the hens] don’t know why.
And if you have an Australian bull, you see, he doesn’t know how to go on a street. He just goes towards any vehicle, anything coming around. He has no sense to cross the road. So, there’s a big problem. They don’t allow them to go out, even the Australian cows, because they are hybrid.
With Sahaja Yoga we produce food out of the seeds which are not hybrid. You know, in my field we, I sowed about 60 kilos of rice vibrated, ordinary, not hybrid, of basmati rice in one acre of land. And we got one thousand four hundred acres, such beautiful thin ones! Even the university people were surprised that, "How did You get it?" And the sunflower so big as that, you won’t believe! You could not lift it.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mother, with Professor Chavan, could we write to him and get some information about the results of some of these experiments that you’ve been doing?
Shri Mataji: Yes, you can. There is one Dr. Hamid who has done experiments with pigs, there’s Dr - from Austria. Then, there’s this Dr. – what’s his name is, Sanghwi who has done with wheat and Chavan has done with animals. So, we can get all that. At least here people will see to it. Indians don’t want to see that.
Sahaja Yogini: We have contacted the Dr. Hamid about the three programs and he’s given us a lot of information.
Shri Mataji: But you know, he had, he had no way to vibrate the water because the water was passing through the tap, you see. It could only go through a, what you call the, pipes. So, what he did is, one of the junctions he opened out and put the ring that you wear [Laughter] and managed the whole show! [Laughter]
And non-hybrid seeds grow better than hybrids. He’s shown it he’s wonderful!
He could be invited here by some University and he could give lectures. It would be good for you, I tell you, from every angle. And with vibrations all these things disappear all disease, insect, everything.
We have no problems in Pratishthan at all, of anything. We don’t use insecticide, nothing. Little bit they did put something, very ordinary. I think, they put the tobacco water, soaking tobacco in the water and put that little bit, that’s all I know. Vibrated water solves the problem, you know.
What they were telling that, they wanted to sprout some seeds and when it was to be, they said it will sprout after six days. It sprouted and the lid also came out in two days!
[Laughter]
They can believe into it, they can see it for themselves. I’m going to see somebody, the principal, the vice-chancellor of Rahuri University, who wants to do experiments with it. Our garden was nothing! I mean one year back. And this time you come and see the whole thing is so good. All right, now you had all kinds of angles.
[Laughter] Your father really is a remarkable man, I must say, such a remarkable person! He first went there, took all the measurements then he did this, he brought it with him, fixed them up and nobody knew how he was living in Pratishthan. I don’t know [if] he was comfortable. Because I was coming, going, I was not there. He never complained, nothing. So sweetly he did everything. I said, “I must pay for it after all, it’s such a thing you have done.” He wouldn’t accept anything. Amazing! And he worked like a young man, I tell you, everybody was surprised.
Sahaja Yogi: He’s sick Mother. He has hepatitis. He’s coming-
Shri Mataji: No, no, I’ll put it all right, call him here. Must be in India, did he get this?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I think so.
Shri Mataji: Must have been. Very simple. You ask him to boil some radish leaves and just drink that water with some sugar. I’ll give you the vibrated sugar. Only drink that water, it will go away. Yes, they get it in India, you see, I told them not to drink water here and there but they do drink. He’ll be all right but you just tell him. Radish leaves.
Sahaja Yogi: Morning, evening.
Shri Mataji: Simple thing like radish leaves and vibrated sugar, after all, to be mixed with it.
What about the China town here?
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: There’re people, Shri Mother.
Shri Mataji: People and everything.
Sahaja Yogi: Like Chinese overseas, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Better go there and see, have a look.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mother.
Shri Mataji: Maybe they might get vibrations. Do they have some ivory here?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I think, they still do.
Shri Mataji: But they are expensive compared to Hong Kong, could be?
Sahaja Yogi: It should be. It should be more.
Shri Mataji: But we can have a look.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: You see, because now I told them not to give Me any silver, nothing, I will not take and just I put down my foot, nothing doing! So, now, they want to have some ivory [Laughter]
Then I’ll bring them down to stone.
[Laughter]
I have stopped for silver because silver is very expensive now in India. So, Guido went down with Me to Turkey and the silver there is so cheap, so very cheap. I don’t know how he planned it: he bought all that silver this time, you must have seen it. [Shri Mataji is laughing]. It’s his own doing without my knowledge he bought all that. He said, “This is the last time Mother,” but it is cheaper, cheaper than brass! I don’t know what to say. I said, “You always get somethings like that.”
Such beautiful birds you have, eh? Very beautiful!
Sahaja Yogi: They are named Layla and Majnun.
Shri Mataji: Hum? They should be Realized.
[Laughter]
Give them some vibrated water.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Marathi with the Indian Sahaja Yogini an
Bout the name of the birds, Layla and Majnun
It’s a couple, a romantic couple in India.
Sahaja Yogi: Very romantic.
Shri Mataji: But they are of the same kind? Different types they are.
Sahaja Yogi: Different.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: In America they call them "love birds".
Shri Mataji: These two?
Sahaja Yogi: But in Australia we call them budgerigars. The name is from Australia.
Shri Mataji: But they have different things.
Sahaja Yogi: Different colours.
Shri Mataji: Is it that the female is different and a male is different?
Sahaja Yogi: It is just a variety of colours. You can get green, yellow. And there’re many hybrids as well.
Shri Mataji: Hybrid? Then they cannot reproduce. Yeah. You should bring them to India, I think. Ah! We’ll arrange it.
Sahaja Yogi: A man gets all these chirping in the back garden. The man in the back, he has one thousand of them, of these birds.
Shri Mataji: This kind?
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, they’re very sweet birds.
Shri Mataji: Very sweet! Because they can stand the heat all right.
Sahaja Yogi: Oh, yes! If you have one at a time, you can teach them to speak.
Shri Mataji: Yes. When you come next time, you’d better bring them.
[Laughter] Because this place is so expensive, I mean, I’m really amazed that the prices you have to pay for something so nonsensical! Silk, cotton so expensive! I don’t know. The most expensive place is Australia, do you know that?
Sahaja Yogi: We are too well aware of it Shri Mother.
Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible] is very expensive.
Shri Mataji: Everything. Even England is cheaper, much cheaper. But it is gone up suddenly within these. You had some nice things here before. When you come to India, why don’t you buy things for yourself, bring them here instead of buying them here? Very expensive! How can you save any money with this kind of things?
Sahaja Yogi: Impossible. [Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Food is all right.
Hello!
Interviewer: Will You excuse me. I have to go back to the office.
Shri Mataji: All right, May God bless you! Thank you very much.
Interviewer: I feel envious.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: I didn’t get your name, I didn’t get your name.
Interviewer: Vivian.
Shri Mataji: Vivian? Vivian. What’s the surname?
Interviewer: I was please to meet you. Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Vivian, what’s the surname?
Interviewer: Morris.
Shri Mataji: Morris.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Very easy to remember. Otherwise they are quite difficult names.
Interviewer: Thank You very much.
Shri Mataji: Thank you. Thank you. May God bless you!
Interviewer: Thanks.
Shri Mataji: Now enjoy.
Interviewer: I’ll see You tomorrow.
Shri Mataji: Yes, please.
Interviewer to the Sahaja Yogis: Bye and thank you.
Shri Mataji: Please help her. Nice person. Greeks are nice.
In Athens, we had some very good journalists. And one came during the program back, little girl. She didn’t understand much and she wrote that: "She came in a Mercedes, this, that, in her place". Next day, I said that "Mercedes is my own which I have given as a present to the ashram. And everybody clapped, you see. [Laughter]
So, what do you do here?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mother, last two months I have been wondering what I should do. And-
Shri Mataji: So, what is your, what is your special thing?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mother, when I first, I came out university here some years ago and I was quite fine as an accountant. Then I went back to Malaysia and went into timber business, making an importing thing with products from Malaysia. And when I was trying to do so brother went back to UK and I came over to here. So, I’m called, supposed a business manager, a general manager type. Because of the event, I’m not sure whether, you know, I should have come to Taiwan in time. So, I have been asking around looking for jobs. And they all say the same thing that either I try to go back to be an accountant, that means I go back to university for few units only. Or I stay job hunting for what I’m qualified for. But what I’m qualified was business manager. Either I get a very high paid job or nobody would hire me. [Laughter]
Shri Mataji: But why don’t you do yourself a business yourself? Like if you go to Japan for example, you see, is in need of goods so much. India is so much needed. And the timber is so much available here. Is it expensive here, timber?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Timber is not very- not all that expensive Shri Mataji. It’s more expensive than timbers from the islands and from Asia. But the prices are there both going up very quickly as well in the meantime. So, it’s not quite expensive anymore.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mother, I still have contacts in timber industry in Australia. My ex-customers were my friends So, if You think-
Shri Mataji: You were supplying them, timber, from this thing?
Sahaja Yogi: My friends, yes. Last time, last time I was supplying them.
Shri Mataji: To Australia?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. And other places like, you know, Australia to Japan, to America. And this time, when I was about to follow instructions to go to Taiwan, this friend here, who works in a big timber company here, he said that - I didn’t tell him the truth, I just told that I’m going to Taiwan for business and I will see. And he said he didn’t mind, you know, he wouldn’t mind appointing an agent if I can get any sales. For Australian, New Zealand timber to go to Taiwan.
Shri Mataji: I think Taiwan won’t take timber; do you think so?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know this, I don’t, I don’t –
Shri Mataji: You have to survey it.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: But see, Taiwan itself is exporting so many things now.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: This is, especially those computers chips.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Do you make here computer chips?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Very few Shri Mother.
Sahaja Yogi: I can make a connection as soon as that our Yogi in South Africa, what’s his name? He imports on Taiwan and in Ganapatipule –
Shri Mataji: Ya, ya, ya, ya. Peter Pierce. Peter Pierce.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I think so.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: In Ganapatipule, he was saying that when he heard that You are going to tour and then I was going there, he said, you know, I can do that also.
Shri Mataji: Ah, he’s from TM and all kinds of things.
Sahaja Yogi: I understand.
Shri Mataji: Last time, I wouldn’t say that he is such a good Sahaja Yogi as there is so much negativity there. But he is in the business and he was saying, "In Taiwan you get them very cheap those chips and things like that." But still, I mean, they are exporting so many things now in Taiwan. I don’t know what they will import. But clothe, they have so many clothe, they make very cheap clothe in Taiwan. And they make so many machineries in Taiwan. All kinds of things like all these electrical things they make. And suddenly, Taiwan has become very industrial place. When I have been there, nothing of the kind, they just used to make some ceramics. Now, it’s so much changed!
Sahaja Yogi: I was told by a Chinese agency where I got ticket from, if I cancel, that he said it’s much more expensive than here to live in now.
Shri Mataji: I know. It has become very industrially developed.
Sahaja Yogi: I ‘ve been using this Shri Mother, because I don’t know what else to do. How to get to Taiwan? That was the best way for me to go to Taiwan.
Shri Mataji: No, but if this gentleman is willing to send you as an agent, you can go as an agent and find out if you can export timber from here. But what is the timber here? I mean what timber you get here?
Sahaja Yogi: Well, you see, Shri Mother, the [inaudible] timber, they cannot export to any other far here, it’s because it all comes from America. America is much closer and much [inaudible] so much cheaper. The Oregon and all those red woods, it’s the highest calls.
Shri Mataji: Red wood, ah.
Sahaja Yogi: The red oak, the white oak.
Shri Mataji: You get that here?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes, but here, they are very expensive. And not so much as in North, West America. So, my friend suggested that probably, for the Asian Est market, he cannot probably export from Australia only from New Zealand. But he says his company controls companies in New Zealand also.
Shri Mataji: Now, here, you have Jarroh.
Sahaja Yogi: Jarrah,
Shri Mataji: Jarrah.
Sahaja Yogi: A very heavy hard wood.
Shri Mataji: It’s something very near rosewood.
Another Sahaja Yogi: The rosewood Shri Mother, that grows something [unsure] in the North coast of the South Wales. And I think it is normally called here rose mahogany. It’s the name it goes by. And it’s a very beautiful timber.
Sahaja Yogi: Very expensive.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes, very expensive timber but a very beautiful timber.
Shri Mataji: But you should try for something lighter. Like, you have got other things I’ve seen of pine.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, the pines. There are big industries in pines, different kinds of, different grades of pines.