Why We Do Not Follow A Religion? 1996-10-28
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
28 October 1996
Why We Do Not Follow A Religion?
Public Program
Cairo (Egypt)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
1996-1028 Public Program, Cairo, Egypt
Gentleman: I am Egyptian. I am surprised that you are here and we are very happy you start here in Egypt. And you are welcome anytime to visit here. And I hope, we apologize because it’s not a lot of people in this meeting because we’re not preparing a long time before. But, I believe we will follow your way and we will like you very much. And I hope you have a good friends in Egypt good, with sons here.
Shri Mataji: Oh, very kind of you to say all that.
Gentleman: Really, It will be our pleasure with you once and twice and forever in our country.
Shri Mataji: I have great faith in the Egyptian people.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Definitely. And I feel all the Islamic problem you can solve. All over the world you find the Islamic people are so struggling, anyway.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You know, for a person like me, every time I feel weak when I hear something horrible happening, so many people getting killed, this thing, like this. And there is a solution for it. If people like you who are open hearted listen and understand, try to understand , what I’m saying. This is a very important thing we have to do at this moment. This is a special time I call it as the Last Judgement. It is the time you have to judge whether you want the truth or not. If you want to have the truth, then you can save the world. If you don’t want to have the truth, then there’s destruction, nothing else. This is a simple style of understanding this point. Should I start?
Gentleman and Yogi: Yes, Mataji.
Shri Mataji: That’s why again I bow to all of you, the seekers of truth. And If you are seeking the truth, then it’s better that you get it. And it’s not so difficult. This country has a speciality as you know, compared to all other Islamic countries. They are very open-hearted and secular by temperament. They are very tolerant people, I must say. And you had a great personality of Sadat here who was himself, according to me, was a realized soul.
Now the problem of Islam must be understood clearly. First of all, the religion, anybody who says “I follow this religion” say. They just say it. It’s like a brand but it has no meaning. I might say I am a Christian, alright. But I do all kinds of nonsensical things. But, I say I am a Hindu and I do all kinds of immoral things and I am a Hindu, you see. Same with Islam. So one should see as an intelligent man that there is something basically wrong about it. That, why is it, when we call ourselves by a particular religion, we don’t follow it? Now, in Islam, there is one very big problem, that is the force. We have to follow because there is some sort of a force behind it. Same in Christianity, Christianity same thing. I was born in a Christian family. Christianity also, if you don’t follow it, if you don’t go to the church, if you don’t practice it, if you don’t give money to the Church, then you are a bad [unfamiliar word sounds like pencheur]. You are not a Christian. Goes on like this. But, when you see the priests, how they are, then you get a shock.
Now this Catholic Church. I’m in Italy every day I get horrible news about them what they are doing now. You get a Pope, written by [yala] very interesting in which it says that nine billion dollars were counterfeited by Catholic Church, counterfeited and were distributed through their bank. The Bank which is call as Vatican Bank. Can you imagine? To the people, such a horrible thing was done.
Now, when you read other things like in Austria, must tell you what has happened about it is, was very [yogi speaks untintelligible] very surprising thing that they caught one priest. They are not supposed to marry. This is something unnatural, but they are not supposed to marry, the priests are. Was caught with a woman, then he gave away sixteen names of priests who were doing this kind of thing. And that all of them know, I would call them , it’s all in there. And they had children from them. And they had houses. And when they were asked, “Why are you doing like this? Why don’t you marry these women?” And some were married women. It’s such an evil thing they were doing. And the answer for that, “That our Church wants to pay widows”. Can you imagine? What a materialistic nonsense it is, absolutely materialistic.
Gentleman: What a shame.
Shri Mataji: And also you go to other extreme of them, their behavior is that. They are so unnaturally tempted priests that they have another funny nonsense going on there with the children. See, now in Europe specially, horrible things they are doing to children. You must have read about what happened in Belgium. Where a magistrate, two policemen...eight policemen, two teachers or something like that, they all got involved into a case where seventeen girls they used and killed. Now, is this any religion? Is this any Godliness?
Gentleman: Unbelievable.
Shri Mataji: Is this any Divinity?
Now we have one gentleman, Andrioti, in Italy. He’s now caught for all kinds of embezzlement and all kinds of bribery, corruption and all that. He was Prime Minister, of Italy. And he used to go to church every day. What was he doing in the church? Every morning he used to. So we must look, why, why is it that those who say that they are ardent this and ardent that, why are they not people who love, who have compassion? What is the reason? If religion means fighting, then better not have it.
Because this kind of revolutions that they have had, French Revolution. Do you think the problem of France is solved by that? Not at all, extremely immoral modern government. I tell you for Indians it is a shock to be in France and to be there because they have no sense of morality. Imagine, their Prime Minister had a keep, no, the President had a keep and she was the Prime Minister. And she was there,[ in many time]. And all such things were going on and they called themselves Christians.
Now the Islamic problem is this, that fundamentalists believe that by following western life, they become immoral. That is their idea. So we should force Islamic laws. By which women should remain very chaste and men should remain very chaste. There should be chastity. This is what is the idea is of Fundamentalism. I don’t blame them for that, but the problem is, you cannot follow any religion, you cannot practice any religion, if it is forced on you. It’s not possible.
I give you an example of I went to Riyadh. You know in Riyadh, if you drink, then you are hanged. If a woman even tries to be friendly with another man, she’s beaten up and she’s buried in the ground and they beat her with stones, all sorts of things. So strict they are they five times they are supposed to[ praise] Allah. Even Me, the people, we were there, so in the market if you are there you immediately must cover your head and sit down or otherwise they’ll come with the wand they call it and hit you there with like.... God’s, uh, if you can call them, God’s policemen. Horrible looking fellows, I tell you. By no means they have anything to do with God. Sso that’s what they do. And you have to follow it, compulsory. One princess was killed because she wanted to marry somebody who was not a prince or something, all sorts of things going on. So, people who can think and understand, have to know that this kind of nonsense is going on. And once then I was traveling, traveling from Riyadh to London, went off to sleep and when I got up what I find all those people who were traveling with me they were all wearing first long, long skirts, you see. Then, before getting down, much before getting down in London, they had already become worse than English, up to here they were wearing. And the men were wearing a stripey things and all that.
My husband doesn’t drink at all. We are that way absolute Muslims because we don’t drink. We don’t have all these habits which are said to not to have. Not that somebody has forced us but we are like that. So they always used to say that you are the real Muslims. Because, where ever you went in a party, they used to offer drinks and all the Muslims and no, and when it is coming to drinks there is nothing like Muslim, Hindu, Christians, nothing like that, they all used to drink. So, it shows very clearly that this Religion had no impact.
Gentleman: Yeah
Shri Mataji: So these people call themselves fundamentalists, are also not know, that by force you cannot create Religion.
Gentleman::Yeah.
Shri Mataji: Now, I would say Prophet Mohammed had to fight because people were so aggressive. That’s why he had to fight. But not just for the fun’s sake he was fighting or anything. Now, if you see to the people who think they are very fundamentalist, also I know them. They are horrible people. They can kill any number of people. They think them very great, sent by God sort of people. Now all this problem of religion has to be resolved. And then I have to tell you one thing, that all these religions are just like flowers on one tree of Spirituality. They are all one if you see, in the essence. Now, if you read Moses alright, then Prophet Mohammed has described him. He has also described Abraham. Then how can Muslims fight the Jews? Not only that, he has described Christ. And specially he has described the Mother of Christ, in such a way, with such adoration and respect for Her, which is not even in the Bible.
Now the tragedy of the Bible was like this, that the one who wrote Bible was Mr. Paul which is the one who came after Christ, and he was epileptic. According to our Sahaja Yoga when you get possessed, then only you become epileptic. Now this man was told by Christ- though Bible is written by this horrible fellow-edited by him and he got hold of the Christ’s worst disciple was Peter. And Christ told Peter that “Satan will take you over.” And this Satan was born. Khalil Gibran has written about this Paul very much and it’s so clearly written by Khalil Gibran because he was a realized soul so he could see what sort of a man he was.
Now, he made Peter say that you start a church and you become this and so this great Catholic Church was born out of nothing. It has nothing to do with Christ. The way they are behaving now, this Catholic Church people, I just can’t understand. Because now I am in Italy and I see it every day what is happening. And I’m so shocked that still they are solidly going along now fighting for abortion, fighting for this, fighting for that.
That’s not so important! What is important, that our Religion which is within us must be awakened. And for which not only was written in our holy books but also written by many great poets. Like, William Blake has written about it, William Blake. Then, I know about many English poets who have written about it, but I don’t know... Must be lots of Sufis have been in this country. They must have also written about it, that you have to become the Self. You have to know yourself. Because Prophet Mohammed has said that, “Unless and until you know yourself, you cannot know God.” But, the attention is not there that we should know ourselves. Only thing that we men should wear long skirts and this they should do, that they should do and all this kind of a thing. It’s not going to make any difference.
The Religion has to come within yourself, has to be awakened within yourself. And then you will realize that all Religions come from the same tree of Spirituality. As I told you, that Mohammad Sahib himself has described all of them. So how can Muslims fight the Jews or Jews fight the Muslims? The relationship is already established in the Book. Now. So the inner Religion what about it? If once you become yourself, your inner Religion is awakened automatically. Don’t have to tell anything about it, do this or do that, nothing of the kind.
In the Koran, it is written that you have to be the Wali. Wali is the knower of yourself. So the knowledge, which is within you, which is the subtle knowledge, we have to... I give an example of it say... Now, see this painting here, it’s such a beautiful painting, so beautifully done everything. But, but I’m not there, it’s just artificially I’m seeing it. So, the picture that they have put in is not Reality. You have to get to Reality and not be satisfied with words. With words you cannot go anywhere, just words are words and words and words. Whatever I’m saying is just also words.
So, you have to become. You have to become yourself. And for that becoming, there is an arrangement within us, which people don’t know, perhaps we don’t have the chart...
Yogi: We?
Shri Mataji: Don’t know... We are not aware that there is a possibility. So instead of Revolution, what you need is Evolution. Thank God now Mr. Pope has suddenly said that there was Evolution. I think he has agreed to that.
Now, I’ve seen also that Islamic Scholars, some of them, who have just said Islamic things, are just saying that there was no Evolution, there was nothing like that, it’s a very wrong story. So we need not go into the discussion of it. But, if we can evolve into ourselves, then we know the Reality. First of all, I have to say, you are seekers of Truth and whatever I am saying, you need not accept at all. Blindly, don’t accept. Blindly we have followed all the Religions and you see what has happened. So if you get the experience, then as honest people, you must accept. Just for it, for the benevolence of Egypt, for the benevolence of the whole world. So, what is that?
Yogi :Kundalini it shows here Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Now, here we have shown. So, first of all we should know what is the truth. What is the truth we are aiming at. The first truth is-- that you are not this body, this mind, these conditionings, these egos, but, you are the pure Spirit. This is the first Truth we have to know, that we have to become the Spirit because you are the pure Spirit. This is the first Truth which has to be achieved. The second Truth is-- that there is a all- pervading power, which in your call, language you call it Ruh, Ruh is the word they use in Islam. Ruh--, all- pervading power of Divine Love. I say Love. Love is Truth and Truth is Love. But, we’ll prove it. First of all, let us see. So, these are the two things which I would tell you, that you are the pure Spirit, and that there is an all- pervading power of Divine Love, of Compassion, of Brahman.
Now, you see these beautiful flowers? Alright.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: We take them for granted. We don’t even think that these flowers have come to us in different forms, different colors, different fragrance from the Mother Earth. Who has done this living job, such a tremendous job? Who has done? We take it for granted. We don’t even think about it, taken for granted. If you ask the Doctor,” Who runs your heart? “ So, he will say, “It’s a autonomous nervous system. Autonomous nervous system runs my heart.” So, you will say, “Who is this auto? Who is this auto who runs your heart?” They don’t know. They are honest, they say, “We don’t know. But, we call it autonomous nervous system that runs our heart.”
Now, the time has come for us to know the Reality, and the science of the Divine. Then, you will be amazed that our science is nothing compared to the science of the Divine. Now you see here we have shown in a triangular base of it, a triangle. That is the bone here, which we call as the Sacrum Bone. That means the Greeks, this is a Greek word. So, the Greeks knew that there is a Sacred Bone within us. So called it Sacrum. And in this bone lies an energy, which is Isis, Isis as written in the Koran also. This energy when the last evolution-- now you are a human being and after that you become a higher human being. This rises through this six centers and pierces through this fontanelle bone area and connects you to this all-pervading power, which is the Ruh. It is a spontaneous thing. Like a sow a seed in the Mother Earth, it sprouts by itself. So, it’s a built in quality within you, it’s your own power. And you are not obliged to me by any chance. This is your own power, within you residing there, which will give you this greatness of becoming one with the Ruh. So you become Ruhani, We call it yogi. Means the one who has united with this all-pervading power. It’s all your own! You’re all your growth, all your creativity, everything shines, your intelligence shines, your wisdom comes, everything through this energy which energizes these centers as shown. There are six of them.
Now, these six centers are responsible for your physical, mental and emotional being. By this, your health improves, no doubt. Also, your wealth improves. How? Because your attention becomes very sharp . It becomes very concentrated. And you exactly know what is to be done, where, what to do. Automatically everything works out...because also you are connected to this all-pervading power, which is so powerful that you are looked after. And you get all the ideas, all the, what you can,say...,necessary information. You just become like a computer, but automatic. You don’t have to do anything.. All this is hidden in you and this you should achieve.
Now, I would say I’ve been working for the last twenty-five years, but Egypt is one of the last countries I am visitng..
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: Because, you know, people were saying that it’s dangerous, this, that. My husband is a very...
Gentleman: What?
Shri Mataji: ... very much attached to me and he just won’t allow me to go to Egypt. Though, he has visited many a times himself, but said I am different and if you do go, well, nobody will accept. But I knew that Egyptians are very open -minded. Whatever I knew them, and that, why should they not be made what they are? Why shouldn’t they get what they deserve? And through you, all the Islamic world you can save, can really save all these problems of this Taliban and this and that going on, which is a very sad affair that Muslims are killing Muslims, what is this?
So, once this happens, it’s a very big thing. I was surprised, I met a, he’s not yet here I think...a...a...
Gentleman: A journalist, yes, he’s not here yet....
Shri Mataji: ...a journalist, his uncle...
Gentleman speaking at the same time not audible.
Shri Mataji: ... at the airport talks to him, and I ‘m so surprised when talking to him what to me, he got his realization. So, when I came home, I told them, “That this gentleman is so, so much there, he got it at the airport.” So, when he came here next day, this morning, so he said “Mother you knew?” I said, “ Yes, I knew .” How?” “ I knew I tried, I can’t tell you how I knew, but I knew that you got it.” And he got it in such a big way.
So, all of you should get this. For that you don’t have to think, don’t have to pay. So the first thing happens to you, that you become thoughtlessly aware. Means, you’re aware, but there’s no thought. Now what is the thought that comes from this mind? And what this mind, is a myth. Created by us as we have created computers, we have created this mind, out of our Ego and Conditioning. So, all the time just throwing thoughts on us, either from the future or from the past. Supposing I say you be in the present, you cannot. By this, what happens these thoughts which are coming, falling, coming and falling. They elongate. And there’s a space in between where you are thoughtlessly aware. Now, you are entering into Reality, where you are without any thoughts. Because in thoughts you are in the future or the past but not the present. Then you rise to a higher level of awareness which we call as doubtless awareness, where you have no doubts, like these people who have come with me. They have no doubts, they give realizations to people, they explain to them, they cure them, it’s working out. All of them are here.
And we have many, in thousands, we have, I don’t know how many, thousands or millions, something like that. We have quite a lot of people like that who have come. It happens to every one of them. Now, when rising like this, what happens to you, that when you get this awakening and connection. Like this you see, if it was not connected, it would not give light. In the same way, we are not connected to the mains, we don’t know. We are blind. As soon as we are connected, we find eh, on our fingertips, on your fingertips, you will feel the cool breeze. You’ll feel the cool breeze coming out of your fontanelle bone area. You can actually feel it. I don’t have to certify. I don’t have to force it, just happens that you can feel it on your fingertips.
Now it is written also, as said Prophet Mohammeds, “At the time of Qiyama, your hands will speak and give shahid against you.” So, so this is Qiyama. He said it very clearly. And the fifth Imam, you see, there is a difference between Imam and Calipha. Imam is the one who is realized soul. The fifth Calipha was horrible. But fifth Imam has said, “That the truth will, you will feel it on your palms.” Clearly, he has said it. I should say, the Muslims are told the most beautiful things so clearly, that he should say.
Gentleman: Alright.
Shri Mataji: Come here, come. He’s the one I’m working on, it’s..
Others: Yeah, yeah.
Gentleman: Right, right, yeah.
Shri Mataji: May God Bless you. Sit down.
So, that on your fingertips you will know the truth, it is written down by Prophet Mohammed. And that on your palm, you will know the, when Qiyama will come, when Resurection time will come. I think the Muslims have been told much more than anybody else. But they’re not looking out for it. The story teller-- their attention on something else.
Now. So I’m talking about the inner happening and which takes place, spontaneously this rises and pierces through this and these centers, which are there, are enlightened by which you get good health.
Now, I must say we have cured many people or people have been cured by Sahaja Yoga of even cancer.
Really. But we don’t want to publicize too much, because then only all our job will be to cure people, go on curing, curing. But, we have a hospital in India. And we have our regular Doctors and people are curing and a very nominal rate is charged and they stay and everything. But, this I should say is something which we could document and made a big argument out of it. So far I have said better... Because it is scientist, who is going to talk to them? Because scientist are, have a certain limitations which we don’t understand. You see, they never want to know that there is God. How can you prove them, unless and until they become the Spirit? You cannot. So, they should agree to be the Spirit. Now, we have many scientist also in Sahaja Yoga. But, they’re trying to write something just to convince people about it and talk about it.
Now, this happening takes place within you. And the first thing that happens to you, that you become thoughtlessly aware. At that state, you become the witness. Start seeing the whole thing like a drama. And nothing disturbs you. See the whole thing happening as a drama, before you. As if, when you are in the water, see there are big waves coming, you are afraid. But, supposing you entered to the boat, then you can see the drama. Now supposing you know how to swim. You can swim and save the people. This is the second state which we call as doubtless awareness, where you have no doubts about yourself. The doubts are only about yourself, not on Sahaja Yoga. Because even when you get Realization, you think, I don’t know if I’ve got it or not and what can I do about it? But if you grow into it, then you become completely a Saint, a Sufi. They all talk the same. And they have of the same level and same understanding, because they are in another world.
You don’t have to give up anything. You don’t have to give up your family, your food habits. Nothing has to be given up. This is all outside. Automatically, you know what is good for you what is bad for you, automatically. And you won’t do anything that is destructive. You’d be amazed that many drug addicts have been cured. I never told them to don’t take drugs, otherwise they would have run away. I never told them don’t drink, they would run away. You see in England, first time even when I told them to take out their shoes, half of them walked off. You see, people are so sensitive even about their shoes. So, nothing has to be told. Just it happens, and then you are there. Once you get it, you know it is there. If you are honest, you accept it and you go further. With all these things you know I’ve told you in a short, all this is there.
Now I don’t mind if you ask me some questions. And then we have the session. But, don’t disturb because just now you are all just there. So ask questions which are sensible and helpful. If you have some additional questions, we can have them tomorrow.
Gentleman: Yeah, excuse me? It’s a funny question. Why the English refuse to take off the shoes?
Yogi: Why do the English refuse to take off the shoes?
Shri Mataji: They are so attached to them, you don’t know.
Gentleman: Or, because it’s expensive shoes. And uh, just to make a funny of the, because we, we buy from England the most...
Shri Mataji: No.
Gentleman: ...expensive shoes.
Shri Mataji: We know the English for Three Hundred years in India.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And we know them too well, even more than they know themselves. And, um, see but, I’ve, I’ve worked very hard for them. You’d be amazed it took me four years to give Realization to seven English people. But today, they are the basic, I should say, very helpful people, foundations for Sahaja Yoga.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Because they were, were very scholarly type. So as soon as I gave them Realization, first thing is do we doubt, find out all these things and this and that and to watch out. But, now....
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Now, here we have Austrians.
Gentleman: Yes.
And we have Germans. And...
Gentleman: Yes, Mother, as a Muslim by born. I am a Muslim Mother and Father. And we have a Muslim family. We never had this dead character, character as in Afghanistan or something else. We believe in humanity. I believe that God is the same God everywhere. We believe that the Religion is the same treatment between all the people, they’re just to help each other, not to hurt...
Shri Mataji: But how?
Gentleman: Not to kill.
Shri Mataji: How can it help?
Gentleman: But, by anything I can do.
Shri Mataji: Best help is to make a person the Spirit.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: That solves the problem.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You see this is the best thing you can do, because you get the power.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: Now, once you, that’s what I was about to say, that you become the Sufi.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You become the Wali. You become the Yogi.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: You become Rouhani.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You get the power also to give it to others. Now, these people what beside you. Now these people, how many of them have given Realization, each one of them?
Gentleman: Yes, it’s a humanity, everywhere. Peace and love everywhere. We don’t need these - [unintelligible]...nothing.....
Yogi: He said to say humanity, peace and love.
Shri Mataji: Of course, it’s humanity. But, humanity should be awakened, that you are all one, a part and parcel of one being.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And there’s no need to fight with each other, and this... So when, when this witness state comes, you become peaceful within yourself.
Gentleman: Yes, of course.
Shri Mataji: Unless and until there is peace within you, you cannot create peace is. You cannot, whatever you may try. So first, the human beings have to become peaceful within themselves. First of all they’re struggling. And then also these Religions, also they tell that you are sinners. You have committed this thing. You are, all the time one is struggling. It’s not so.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You are glorious, because you are a human being.
And all these little, little things, that makes you feel weak or guilty is a nonsense, at all. You have done nothing wrong according to me. Whatever you have done, it is finished, now gone. Now, at this moment, doesn’t exist for you. It should not exist for you, so don’t feel guilty. But if you feel guilty, then this center catches. Then what do you get is that is...
Gentlemani: static?
Shri Mataji: - spondylitis, minimum. You can get also angina of the heart. You can also get all the lethargic-your organs you see. So why have any guilt? It’s a fashion, especially in the West. “ I’m very guilty.” “What happened?” “I’ve poured some coffee and I’ll be [called for license-unclear].” So he poured some coffee or he used the knife with the right hand or the left hand. So to feel guilty for anything is just to debase yourself. I’m saying no. You have to respect. You have to respect yourself, always, that you are a human being. You have passed through so many status of evolution. Now you are a human being. And this human awareness has to expand, has to become Ruhani, has to become Spiritual. For that you can’t pay, that’s the point. This is the first petal. You cannot pay for it!
Gentleman: of course
Shri Mataji: Because God doesn’t understand your money, your bank, your Swiss bank.
Gentleman: Yes, yes, have it.
HHM: So, you don’t have to pay for it, for definite.
Gentlman: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: You cannot pay for God. He doesn’t understand. So, you may pay for travel.
Gentleman: inaudible comments
Shri Mataji: You may pay for hotel. You may pay for this electricity but you can’t pay for God. You felt surprised.
The second thing is you cannot force Religion on anyone. It has to come from.... This is his own Authority. From where that Authority, the Truth expresses. We call it Satwa, in Sanscrit language it is Satwa. It’s Authority, and this Authority becomes the Truth, that you have that Authority. You know that Authority there and that is the Truth. But, you don’t impose it on others, it cannot be forced. It cannot. If you want, you’ll get it. If you don’t want, no loss. If you’re adamant, it will not work. If you are criticizing yourself... You have to say that you want it and you’ll get it. You have to desire, otherwise it cannot be forced. Like you cannot force a seed to sprout.
Gentlemen: It means that it’s up to our will? Is it true, up to our will? You can control everything under your control of yourself?
Yogi: It’s up to our will to control everything.
Shri Mataji: To control what?
Gentleman: To control ourself, so it’s up to our will.
Shri Mataji: No, no but you, you just when you know yourself.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Just there is darkness around.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And you can’t see anything.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So you trample on people. You don’t find the road.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And you don’t find the way to go out and all.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: But if you have the eyes...you know everything.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So you don’t have to control.
Gentleman: No.
Shri Mataji: It is under control by itself.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: The controlling power itself sees everything. You don’t have to control anything. You don’t have to tell them anything. It’s just a.....
Gentleman: Leave it.
Shri Mataji: The Spirit, the light of the Spirit.
Yogi: Mother, some questions here....excuse me....
Gentleman: Had to mind some tell Her something....
Gentleman 2: You said that Mohammed Prophet described...
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear him talking....
Gentleman 2 You said Mohammed Prophet described Christ.
Shri Mataji: Christ?
Gentleman 2: Mohammed didn’t describe Christ but the Koran described everything. He told us in the past and telling what is valid now and thing what is coming in future. And the Koran is, the our Religion and instruction needed by God. And it is included all or many thing you are pressing on. Like the peace. The name of the God as Salam . One of the name of the God as Salam, mean the peace. There is no conversing for anybody to follow Islam but there is.....
Yogi: He says that....translate for him....He says that Koran...and Mohammed did not speak about Christ, but the Koran does. In the Koran tells him everything....[others commenting underneath]
Shri Mataji: How can he say? You see, because what Mohammed has said...
[Others talking underneath in Arabic to each other before Shri Mataji are inaudible.]
Shri Mataji: I would say Prophet Mohammed was not at all described as depicted because I know what He was. He was a great Incarnation. But what they say that He was not even Divine. I mean, this is a bit too much, you know? Because I know He was a great Incarnation. And what He was I know. And in the Koran, this, this is the trouble with the books.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: If you have books, you’ll fight definitely. Because in this book something is written. In that book something is written. In this other book something is written.
Gentleman: That’s true.
Shri Mataji: But first, know if it is so. How will you know? I’ll tell you, very simple is. Once you become the Spirit, alright? Then you put your hands like this. Now, ask a question. Those who don’t believe will...
Gentleman: It’s kind of a maya...it’s funny isn’t it....[unintelligible]
Shri Mataji: ... understand God. Just Ask. And immeditately you’ll feel ... tremendous breeze coming in. Alright. Now you ask a question. Was Prophet Mohammed an Incarnation? See this... How...
Gentleman 2: Yes, I feel....
Shri Mataji: You will know the truth on your fingertips, not through the books.
Gentleman 2: No.
Shri Mataji: Very simple.
Gentleman 3: Excuse me....[ Group of Gentlemen discussing in Arabic-- Koran, Mohammed, Salam, etc. for some time]
Gentleman: No, no, excuse me please, some, some misunderstanding. [Continued discussion in Arabic]
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, but what’s the use?
Gentleman: Some misunderstanding. [Arabic discussion continues] Some misunderstandings.
Shri Mataji: About what?
Gentleman: Some misunderstandings Mother...Please Mr. Ali...Please ask the Mother, She will answer. [Arabic discussion continues]
Shri Mataji: OK. See now. This is no discussion argument. I’ll tell you.
Gentleman: Please, please.....now....
Shri Mataji: Because so far there is no need for discussions... arguments... What have you achieved? Alright...This is going beyond, beyond. the thought. Only one psychologist was Jung, who has written about it because he got his realization. That you have to go beyond your thought. So if you go on arguing discussion this is in the Koran. Somebody will come this is written in Gita. Another says....But what have you achieved?
Various Gentlemen: But, what, Mother excuse me....Mother, cause.... Please, please ....when...please,when are you going to give answer? Are you answer my friend?
Gentleman 2: Yes No, please I will answer my ...
Gentleman: In Arabic or English?
Gentleman2: Yes It’s uh....now uh....in English. It is not a, not a Religion. The Mother teach us how we, how we love each other. Even there is a friend from Israel. He is a brother.
Gentleman: He will come.
Gentleman 2: He’s....when he’s with them.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Gentleman 2: And you see, his friend as a Muslim. We are free relation.
Shri Mataji: Oh, we have many of this.
Gentleman 2: But we are brothers. It is, it is the Mother teach, give this present to us in around 66 countries. It is men teach from the Mother. Please everybody to understand it is not proper for politics. Not Mother of Religion, is Mother of to love each other, even Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
Gentleman: Bravo, bravo....
Gentleman 2: Yes Ok, in this moment it has to appoint any description relating to any Religion, and this description is wrong not right. We must say that Muslims’ the problem. It is the people problem not Islam problem.
Gentleman: Yes.
A lady: No, no, no, no, no....(some clapping approval)
Gentleman 2: I correct some....
Gentleman 3: Some mistake, some misunderstanding...
Gentleman 2: ...some small, small point.
Shri Mataji: Nothing wrong?
Gentleman: Uh..... the power of, uh, people, not they....they are not the discussion of the Religion. They are the power, they are fighting for the power only.
Gentlemen again begin discussing all at once.
Shri Mataji: Who’s that, what power, no, no, no, no...no they have no power. Eexcuse me...excuse me....
General discussion among Gentlemen continues.....
Shri Mataji: Listen. Listen. The power is useless! They are fighting for power.
Gentlemen: Yes...... continue discussing...
Shri Mataji: That was never told by Prophet Mohammed. Never! What he said....
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: ...that you should find yourself. He never said --that you fight among yourselves.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: For what? What kind of power are they going to get? What sort?
Gentleman: They will be the president...
Shri Mataji: Nothing!
Gentleman: ....too much money....too much power....
Shri Mataji: Nobody has money....have you seen? Now in our country, see India. They divided --that we’ll have Bangladesh.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: That is the poorest country in the whole world!
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: I...
Gentleman: We believe it.
Shri Mataji: My husband told me don’t come visit me because you’ll cry all the time.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So bad! You see now the Taliban and all those. They cut each others throats and what will come of it?
Gentleman: I cry for them.
Shri Mataji: You be a person above everything now...
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And see how you feel....extremely.....
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji:....extremely....
Gentleman: This is a....
Shri Mataji: ...upset.... with that love. What’s happening to them... mad....
Gentleman: Excuse me Mother...
Shri Mataji: ....Huh....
Gentleman: This is a madness and crazy way and they are not humanity person.
Shri Mataji: No!
Gentleman: Forget about Religion.
Shri Mataji: Yeah.
Gentleman: It can be happened in Christian, in Jews...
Shri Mataji: Anything...
Gentleman: In unbelieve, our trouble was in everybody, everywhere. As example, the...uhh... the...uhh
..the war between....uhhhh....exYugoslavia. It’s....they are looking for a power. It’s not a Religion fighting...
Shri Mataji: No...no...for money!
Gentleman: For money and power, that’s all. I traveled all around Yugoslavia since 20 years and there in Yugoslavia – 20 to hundred times before, so I know everybody everywhere in Sarajevo, in Zagreb and everywhere. They are not fighting for Religion. They are fighting for power and money.
Shri Mataji: For Religion you don’t have to fight.
Gentleman: Yes, yes....
Another Gentleman: Excuse me, sorry... I can say something?
Shri Mataji: Whar? Religion’s the thing...
Gentleman: They will come up....
Shri Mataji: ...which is... which is not without. It’s not some sort of a Brand you put in and go on fighting...in the name of God!
Lady: Yes...(others begin to talk behind conversation)
Another Gentleman: I think both sides, Mother and our friend, reach the same point. They say that - it is not Islam which is responsible for everything but the Muslims, themselves, can’t carry out the rules and teachings of Islam. And Mother, in the same time say that we people are not God from inside. We have no peace. That’s why we always fight against each other. The problem is in ourselves. Not in books, the Holy Books, Koran, Christianity..
Shri Mataji: They’re not interpreted them properly.
Another Gentleman: No...So they reach the same point but in a different way. I think there’s misunderstanding...
Other Gentleman: Why yes, there’s misunderstanding, yes.
Another Gentleman: They both, they both agree to the same to the....
Gentleman: To humanity- peace and love.
Another Gentleman: No one can comment, no one can comment on Koran...
Shri Mataji: Peace....how will you have peace?
Gentleman: Yeah, yeah....
Shri Mataji: Unless and until you know yourself that you are part and parcel of one...that you...that there’s no other.
Gentleman: Yeah...
Shri Mataji: Unless and until you rise above this, how will you have peace? Sinple thing like this...
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Now see My Hands, Feet, Body, is one....alright?
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: If I get a .....pinch here, the whole body knows that problem.
Gentleman: Yes...yes...
Shri Mataji: Same thing happens in Sahaja Yoga I will tell you. One fellow got into trouble in India. From all over the world, [inaudible] people write in – everybody worried about that person, one person – what’s happening... See such help, such friendship ,such love....no fighting I’ve seen. They are so many nations, you know, come to India and we have so many there. And of course, I mean they alright, but ... it’s not like this kind of a hotel they live in.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: But such joy, such love....I have never seen them quarreling or fighting – never! Other than pulling each other’s legs.alright –[laughter] that’s...but that is alright for fun.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: But such understanding and such ...
Gentleman: ...humanity....
Shri Mataji: .. compassion for each other.
Gentleman: Yeah...
Shri Mataji: If one person gets sick, you see,
Gentleman: I mean will you call?
Shri Mataji: They’ll telephone to me...no. They’ll telephone to me ,” Mother , please Bless this man... Bless, Bless that person...” All the time they are together without even understanding how together they are.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: You see, this is has to happen as you say, the humanity has to be brought up.
Other Gentleman: Yeah, absolutely....
Shri Mataji: Not to criticize the Religion which is within, but, Religion that is without. Which is not been understood, which is absolutely misunderstood by people.
Gentleman: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: Otherwise there would have been no problem. Now by this, what happens that we see the essence of every Religion how it is close to each other – it is just there. And you go above...yourself. Then you just stand for Truth, and Love and Compassion. Now why should these people from Austria come down to Egypt? Why should they? Spending their own money...everything...why should they?
Another Gentleman: I don’t know.
Discussion by Egyptian gentleman: [All talking at once ] – For Peace and Love/ for humanity/ To find the new brothers and sisters. Yeah.
Shri Mataji: To have more.
Gentleman: To have more. Yes, yes. [laughter]
Shri Mataji: But according to Bible already the number is over. [laughter]
Gentleman: But really....really it was best meeting. Really, Mother, we enjoyed so much in your ...advice...of our humanity for each other.
Shri Mataji: Thank you, Thank you very much!
Gentleman: And we like also Mr. Ali very much for....uh...
Shri Mataji: Because – that’s it.
Gentleman: To explain a little bits of points of our Religion and all Religions...
Shri Mataji: Nothing, nothing to worry.
Gentleman: ...this is humanity all around the world.
Shri Mataji: You see now, I’ve told you, I’ve met all kinds of people. And I know all kinds of people, And I have been all over the world – you can imagine. But of all the places, in Russia it’s a fertile land ...and they had no Religion! It’s the most fertile land!
Gentleman: Thailand?
Shri Mataji: Russia.
Other Egyptian men: No, no...Russia, Russia.
Gentleman: Russia, I know, I know....yes, yes, yes...
Shri Mataji: I...Russia, Romania, Bulgaria you see they were under Communism...
Gentleman: Yugoslavia....
Another Gentleman: North Korea...
Shri Mataji: They were so oppressed and tortured...
Gentleman: Angry...absolutely...
Shri Mataji: They have become...really great, very great.
Gentleman: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: So....our freedom,whatever we had, was not wisdom, otherwise, doesn’t work out. So let us see...I’m sure all of you will get it. And have faith in yourselves. Now don’t try to condemn yourself by any chance. I love you very much and it will work out I am sure.
Another Gentleman: We do love you very much.
Gentleman: Thank you very much.
Another Gentleman: We welcome you in Egypt anytime and any moment and such is the main things.
Austrian: He says....We too, we love you Shri Mataji....he says..
Shri Mataji: Yeah, I know that.. I know that...yeah....
[General talking going on....as Shri Mataji speaks....]
Shri Mataji: So the question of understanding that we are human beings....and we have to become something greater....otherwise the problems cannot be solved. And that will happen very soon you will see you will get it you will know that. But again I would say that I cannot force on you. It cannot be forced. Only you have to desire. Your desires will be fulfilled. Takes hardly any time. Hardly takes five minutes...
Now.
Just put both your feet away from each other that’s all...Take out my shoes. I’m sorry I came with you so late but, uh, I couldn’t find out the way how to come here. Just put out your hands just like as you do for Namaz.
[Shri Mataji goes into meditation...]
Just put your left hand towards Me-- just like that. And put down your head and see for yourself if there is a cool breeze like vibrations are coming out of your fontanelle bone area. Just see for yourself.
Now, please forgive everyone. Please forgive. Whether you forgive or you don’t forgive, you don’t do anything. But if you don’t forgive, then you torture yourself. So please forgive everyone. Don’t’even think about it. Just forgive....if you don’t forgive yourself and forgive others, you’ll get a hot kind of breeze coming out of you, but it will become alright later on. Please try to forgive. Now....
Please put the right hand towards Me. And put your left hand on top of your head again on the fontanelle bone area. Please bend your head. And see for yourself if there is a cool or a... hot breeze like vibrations coming out of your...own head. Some people get is close to their head, some people away from it. So you can search it out. Now.
Now, please once more, put the left hand towards Me once more. Put down your heads please. And see with your right hand this a cold or a hot breeze is coming out of your fontanelle bone area.
Now...Please open your hands like this towards Me and watch Me without thinking, watch Me without thinking.
Now...just raise your hands up there in the sky and ask a question three times. You can call me Mother, you can call me Shri Mataji, whatever you feel like. Mother, is this the cool breeze of Ruh? Ask this question in your heart three times. Push back your head. Mother is, is this the cool breeze of Ruh, the All-Pervading Power of Divine Love?
Now please take down your hands. And now see for yourself. All those who have felt this Ruh on their hands, on their fingertips, or out of their fontanelle bone area, please raise both your hands. Now wave and raise them. Please raise your hands. See...these two didn’t do anything, so they didn’t get, I’m sorry. They should have done it. Was just a Namaz. May God Bless you.
All of you have got....got it. This is...it’s Namaz....in the Namaz now you will get it. When you do the Namaz, you’ll get the cool breeze and the Divine Love. See...what I am saying, because we have not understood what is told to us, we are mislaid. But now, by this you’ll be amazed, you’ll understand ...everything.
Did you feel the cool breeze also?
Gentleman: I think,yes... I’m sure, yeah.
Shri Mataji: Now, even now the waves are there.
Gentleman: Ahh..but,....
Shri Mataji: : Now you ask a question.
Gentleman: ...what’s....something...
Shri Mataji: Let’s ask a question. Is there God? Ask a question, is there God? In your heart, ask a question.. See now...how much you know. Please put your hands. Now ask a question. That’s how you know the Truth. Is there God? See.....how much more?
Now, ask about Mohammed Sahib. Ask about Prophet Mohammed. Was He the Incarnation of the Primordial Master? Ask this question. See?
All the Truths you will know on your hands, as said it. Also out of your fontanelle bone area you’ll get the cool breeze which connects to the All-Pervading Power.
You feel very relaxed...but, there’s one thing. Today you might feel very much better all the air you’ll feel...ah, I’ve got it. But one has to grow. It’s like the seed that is sprouted but one has to grow into Sprituality. And for that, I’ve asked him to stay here and some people could come and they should start a little center. Don’t have to pay anything for that. It’s all the knowledge absolutely free for you.
Gentleman: Thank You.
Shri Mataji: And you have to grow into it. Once you grow, you can transform so many others....and can make them peaceful, and joyful. This is so simple as that. But for that, either any one of you can come down to Austria, stay there and master it and start. But I would like someone to...I was telling him that he should shift here for some time, somebody who knows Sahaja Yoga. Anyone of them will agree to come and stay here...what do you think Maria....alright. One or two persons who can come here and stay here and can tell them each and everything about this knowledge which is so subtle. It’s beautiful, subtle knowledge within us which we have to know .And you feel very relaxed, in every way you will tell Me that, “ Mother, such a help is coming to us. This is working out, that is working out.” Everything works out. It’s tremendous.
Thank you very much.
Gentleman: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: In Sahaja Yoga, we don’t have to force anyone. In the beginning people do carry on little bit with their habits and things and then goes. Don’t have to be told, just you know that this is not good. You do what is good and you have the strength to do it. You have the authority to do it, so you just do whatever is constructive and helpful.
Next year, I am sure I can come here again and I’ll stay over.
Gentleman: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So, if you have any problems, I’m still here for one or two days. If you want, you can contact these people and come and see Me personally.
Gentleman: Thank You. Will do.
Others also: Thank You, very much Mother.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.
Gentleman: We promise to do this. Thank You.
Shri Mataji: Alright, We’ll.... May God Bless you all, may God Bless you all, and give complete wisdom.
So much vibrations, that I can’t really walk.....[Shri Mataji leaves the room]
Assembled group talking among themselves.
Outside video continues as Shri Mataji departs.
Shri Mataji: What a [inaudible] night. The moon feels very close.