How to bring the Spirit into our conscious mind? 1981-09-19
19 September 1981
How To Bring The Spirit Into Our Conscious Mind?
Public Program
New York City (United States)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – VERIFIED
Public Program Day 1. New York (USA), 19 September 1981.
It’s nice to come back to America. I know there are lots of seekers in this country; lost. They are frantically seeking, no doubt. They are genuine seekers, I have no doubt about it. I came back after 9 years; it was unfortunate because I was busy with other parts of the world and I knew I will find them again when I go back.
It is for us to know first of all that if you are seeking reality, if you are seeking the truth, we have to be very honest about it; extremely honest. You have to know that unless and until you find it, you should not believe anyone., You should not accept any surface anything. People may say anything. I may tell you that you have to have your Realization. That doesn’t mean that you have to believe Me – it doesn’t mean that at all. But you should not also deny Me.
Now, first of all, we should know what we are seeking. There has been never on this earth such an urge to seek. So many seekers! I don’t know if you understand that a very different type of category of people – I call them men of God – are born who are seekers. And they will go on seeking until they find the truth. But one has to know what we are seeking. What are we to seek? It is said you have to become. You have to be. What do we have to be?
We have to be our Spirit. Now we do not know what our Spirit is. The Spirit exists, no doubt. It watches us. We know there is a Spirit. But how to bring that Spirit in our conscious mind – in our central nervous system – is the point. And when people know that there are such demands, the market also gets filled with enterprise is very common. Americans have the worst hit because you have worse, you have money. That’s the worst part of it. And that’s how all of them are [UNCLEAR flying/flowing]down here and they have exploited you. I knew and I’m sorry for all that.
. But I must tell you that you cannot pay for your Realization. It’s an insult of God. How can you pay? How can you pay for His love? Do you pay to a tree when it gives you fruit? You do not. Maybe a merchant might take a fruit and sell it.It’s much more than that. “How can we pay for it?” Is a simple question we should ask ourselves; honestly.
Then second point is, you cannot have courses in God Realization. What university did Christ go? He was a simple man. Did he go to any university? There is no understanding for us. That God is for everyone, whether you are educated or not. Whether you have money or not. Whether you understand this language or that language, God’s language is of love and it’s for everyone... every person....for every case[UNCLEAR]. It cannot be for one person or one type of people or of one category. But one category is there and they are the seekers. Seekers is a special category, but only trouble is they do not know what they are seeking.
For this, we have to divert to some authentic people. For example, we should see now Christ. Christ said that you are to be born again. Last time, when I came to America, they were taping my speeches and all that in Los Angeles. And I was amazed, you see, that people objected to it; that they should not tape. I said, “Let them tape. What does it matter?” They said, “No Mother, they will publish it.” I said, “Let them publish it. It’s a fact. They should get it. They should get their Realization. They are to be born again.”
But I was amazed! Then, they wrote books as if that was their knowledge. I don’t mind that either. But saying that you are to be born again and they got a certificate – a sales certificate – that we are born again. How can you certify yourself you are born again? We have to be honest about it. If we are born again something special has to happen to us. Like Yunghas said you have to become – become collectively conscious. Not that I say we are all brothers and sisters and we are all one. No, you have to become that part and parcel of the whole – as you say the microcosm. You have to become this microcosm has to become that. That means in evolution, your awareness has to become something more. As an animal, you see, for example, for an animal. He doesn’t see any colours. He doesn’t see whether is filthy or good. But you do. In the same way, if you have to rise higher, the change has to come in your awareness. That is one thing one should know that the transformation has to take place in your awareness. And that is what one should see, that is there any transformation in awareness? For example, there is somebody who starts jumping on the seat. I’ve seen some people who come to Me. They just start jumping and they think they have got Realization. How can that be? You are not in possession of yourself. You have to be your own master. Here somebody is making you jump. Maybe you are possessed. You have no, authority over yourself. You do not know how to control yourself. And how do you say that you have got Realization? If you become Self-realized, you are not going to be enslaved. You are going to get over all kinds of slavery. You have to be a master.
This should be the test of anything that you are seeking. What have you got, you say? Are you emitting your own powers? I may say (as he has said it, I mean, I don’t know why Warren said this because I seldom start with this kind of a thing); but if you wanted to see he said it. Now to say that I am such and such and such and such is nonsense. I may be anything. So what? What did you get is the point! Did you feel yourself anything more than before? Did you get anything more that you have had? Not you become crazy people recluses. That’s not the way. You are going to be the most normal person, has to be extremely normal. And above all, you have to have complete control of yourself. That is the minimum of minimum one should know. But our idea about Self-Realization is so much spoiled and so many pseudo people have written, even about Kundalini. I was amazed when I found out that such big, big books are written about Kundalini saying it is in the stomach, some say it is in the nose it is here and there. It is not there! It is in the sacrum bone. You can see it yourself with your own eyes. When the Kundalini rises you can see the pulsation just like a heart not in everyone, of course. But in some people who have had an obstruction, you can see with your naked eyes. You should be able to see it – happily – and you can also feel the pulsation coming to the head. I mean so many people have said it.
There are people who are now, I am told, are converting people into Sikhism and this and that. And what is Sikhism? If you need, read Kabira who is the basis of Sikhism. He has said that you have to feel the cool breeze coming out of your head. He says (Mother quotes in another language). They said, on the head, first of all, there is the sound of Anahata, is this thumb-dub of the heart and then you feel the cool breeze coming out. Is so clearly said, but who reads those people? Those people who talk even of Hinduism and all that, do they read Adi Shankaracharya? What Adi Shankaracharya has said? He has written books after books on Kundalini; and not only, but on this Chaitanya, he has written a complete book. But people don’t read that. You get these – I don’t know – extracts and some sort of a – I don’t know how they are not afraid of God? They are not afraid – just to make some money – I don’t know. Are they going to carry this money with them? It’s very, very wrong! It’s very sinful. I don’t mind whatever they do. But it’s alright if they want to be smugglers and all. There are many like that. But they spoil your Kundalini. You are damaged. And this is the thing which I am concerned about and it’s a very sad thing.
Coming to America is a real venture for me because I did send some of the people who were really realized souls and they came here. They ran away within 3 days. They said they will never recognize, there is a barrier. There is a barrier, they will never recognizes, Mother. They went back. They rushed back. They stayed in New York, one of them stayed for three days. He ran away. He couldn’t stay here. He said, “They just want something else. They don’t want God. They don’t want their Spirit.” Of course, I don’t believe that. These barriers are created to us because we read about it. We try to understand through reading. It’s good, but you must come to a right conclusion through logical, logical understanding; not rationality. Rationality is something which can take you anywhere. Rationality can give you (you can) rationalize even a murder, anything! But, logically, you must understand. Where should we reach? What should happen to us? As seekers, what are we expecting? This is a very, very precarious time and a very important time. I should say the Last Judgement has started. That has started. That’s how you are all here and you are seeking. The way you will judge is the Kundalini has to rise. You have to become Self-realized. Then you start feeling your centres on your fingers.
Tomorrow I will give you all the information about all the centres and all that and I will tell you how you will judge. What are the centres that are catching? What are the centres of others are catching? And then you will judge that. Then you will know what is the problem, how to get it done, how to get it all right. There is no technique for spontaneity. Like if you sow a seed it becomes a tree. There is no technique. If you have flowers, they become a fruit. It’s a living thing. And living things do not have any technique. But once you get connected, then you must know the Divine laws and you must know the Divine technique. But first, you must be realized. Unless and until you are put to the Mains, how can you use this machine? You are not yet put to the Mains. How can you do anything? It’s like telephoning somewhere without having any connection. You must be connected., first of all to the Divine ( but this is not a difficult thing.). In modern times is very easy. Formerly, it was, like you can say, on a tree, in the beginning, you get only one or two flowers. But the time has come. The blossom time has come.
Already today, I went to see William Blake’s* drawing exhibition. And He said, “All your sins and blasphemy and everything will be forgiven. All your sins will be forgiven.” He has said about these days. He said that the God of men will become prophets and they will have the power to convert and transform others into prophets. He has clearly prophesized about Sahaja Yoga. Every word He has said about it. But people don’t read Blake. If you go and see his exhibition, you’ll be surprised how in the “Pilgrim’s Progress” only he has given clearly how you face life. And there are some Sahaja Yogis here sitting down at your back here. And they have come from London and some of them from Australia. And they could see. This is how you face it. But to get Realization is the easiest thing; to maintain it rather difficult. But also that is possible.
Now we have in London (you will be surprised)we had a hall at least one and a half times bigger than this. And the hall was completely filled. And they rose up to sing a song of Jerusalem which was a great experience for Me to see that. But( you won’t believe) I started the work in England because My husband got elected to a post there. That’s how we were there. And in the beginning, I was working with seven people – seven hippies, I should say seven people for four years. And now of course, the whole of England, we have many centres and lots of people have got Realization and they are working it out. It’s working out very well.
We have some people here from there who have come. Dr. David is here and Hesta is a barrister. Then we have these two from Australia – Dr. Warren, who was a diplomat. And these two are American girls – out of them – ah Christine – has been with Me since long and Marcia who got her Realization only two months back, but she was so upright and so straightforward. She got it in Bristol, she followed us up, she came to London and she is, I was amazed at hert and I said if you represent American seekers then there is no problem. You should be straightforward and you should know that it is you who should decide. If you say I am your Guru, all right I accept it for the time being. But a Mother is always a guru. If you say that your mother as she had to teach you so many things I have to teach you some things. But actually, it is you who is your own guru. You have to become it. Unless and until you are connected, how will you judge? Once you get connected, you will be able to judge. But you don’t think that it is a mental activity that is going to bring you your Realization. No, God has placed everything beautifully within us; everything. You have got your Kundalini very nicely placed in the sacrum bone. Now, see this bone Sacrum is a triangular bone called “Sacrum” so that Greeks know about this bone. They knew it was a sacred bone. Sacrum means sacred in Greek language. When I went to Greece, I was surprised. They have the complete idea of Kundalini; complete idea. And they have this Athena -Atha means the Primordial Mother. In Sanskrit language, Athena – Athens comes from that and the way She was holding a serpent in her hand and everything – is absolutely She is the Primordial Kundalini. And the whole concept was there and when I went into the study of that I tried to find out what it was how did they know? They said we had some Indo-Aryian groups coming down here and they told us these things and that’s how weknow about it. But, that was all lost because they brought all the Gods to the level of human beings and made a lot of mess out of it.
Now we have to know that, how Christ was such an important incarnation on this earth. We have really made a mess of the whole thing. He said that you are to be born again. Actually, He came on this centre where you see this red mark. You see – it is placed in the optic chiasma. In the centre is a subtle centre called as Agnya Chakra. In the Hindu scriptures, He is called as Mahavishnu. But I will tell about His advent when He came on this earth. He came on this Earth, we say, He is the gate; he is the door. He is the door below the limbic area. And the limbic area is the Kingdom of God. Where one has to enter, the attention has to enter. How do you enter into it? Not bodily, but your attention has to enter it. Your attention is spread out in this area, is not there – it has to enter through that area into the limbic area and ultimately, in the fontanel area. It becomes soft and the Kundalini has to come out and you get the cool breeze, this is your actual baptism. Is not the baptism you go to some theological college and learn all right – I baptize – it’s all artificial. It’s absolutely artificial. That’s not the way you can baptize. You have to be a realized soul to do that. John the Baptist was a realized soul. He was the one who knew how to do it. And he did it for all of them. And that’s how it should happen to you. That the Kundalini has to rise and give you Realization. Now the Christ advent came at this point. It’s a very important one because today we haven’t brought the charts and all that but tomorrow we’ll be giving you, in a full way, how the ego and super-ego in our brain is connected with this centre. When He is awakened ego and super-ego are sucked. They create a area here. Our ego and super-ego give us our I-ness. We get separated. When He’s awakened, this portion gets opened out and then the Kundalini can rise. That’s why it is said that Christ is to be awakened within you. But it can be only done by a person who has Divine authority. And such a person cannot live on your money. He cannot be a parasite. Such a person has nothing to do with money. How can you purchase such a person.? Such a person is beyond, beyond your purchase beyond your money. You cannot do anything for such a person. Such a person just gives. He just gives. He emits. It cannot take anything. It cannot receive. It cannot! You may try but doesn’t. One day I was walking a little bit, my foot was a little twisted and one of the doctors she said, “All right Mother, I’ll try to massage it.” I said alright go on massage it. She was messaging yet she was relaxing that side and I was saying, “What’s happening to you?” She said, “Mother, what is this? Lots of vibrations are coming and I am just massaging yourself and I am massaging myself the way it is cooling down and soothing.” So, such a person cannot take anything from you.
Now, the most important point which I would like to tell you is this: that we don’t realize how precariously we are placed otherwise, also. There are equal and opposite forces working on us. For example, a disease like cancer. I was surprised to hear that in this country, there are patients one among four of cancer disease. I have told this ten years back, that cancer can only be cured through Sahaja Yoga. There’s no other way out. I have cured many cancer patients and you can also cure once you get realized. How it happens how you cure cancer all this knowledge you can have free of charge. Free of this thing. Actually, first, you must get your Realization. Without that, there is no use telling you because you come into this room; it is all dark; you are blind; you cannot see anything. What’s the use of telling you the size of the room, and colour of the chairs, and colour of all this? No use telling you. Best thing is to open the lights and open your eyes so that you can see for yourself. And the complete knowledge becomes your own. Then is better to talk. Otherwise supposing even when you cannot see anything, I go on giving you the whole history about electricity and about everything. You’ll be bored and stiff. And it’s of no use. First thing is you must get your Realization. That is the first thing. Cancer can easily be cured by Sahaja Yoga. Absolutely there is no doubt. And there cannot be another doubt that it cannot be cured by anything else.
In our body, we have a particular system called as a sympathetic nervous system. Now this sympathetic nervous system goes into a terrible tension when we go to extremes of any kind. Say smoking, for example. Now smoking is a very interesting thing because according to me, this America is the Visshuddi chakra, is this centre, this çenter. This centre gets spoiled when we smoke and the smoking is the maximum here. Like the Europe is the liver and there, people drink. And they are so much in it and their livers are the worst ones in Europe. England is the heart and England is lethargic. I mean the whole thing is in such a mess that I don’t know what I have to face. But I was happy to know that now the smoking is going down. But with Realization, smoking just disappears. You don’t have to work hard. Marsha herself used to smoke a lot. She told me. I was amazed. But she has given up completely. Drugs and all those things drop out just like something unnecessary because a transformation takes place. And the transmutation starts when the transmutation starts, all these things drop out. You enjoy the best of your health best of your heart best of your mind and your emotions come out. The best part of it is that this is what one has to achieve the whole humanity has to achieve. But the few who are the seekers have to do it first. They have to do it first; they are the foundation. Like in every evolution, only a few fishes had to come out; first one fish came out and then many came out. In the same way, few people have to do it. I’m happy there are a few today. Though others are disappointed, I am not. I am happy because I’ll have to work harder. If there are too many, may be difficult. As he said, it’s true that I gave Realization to six thousand people in a village in India. But they are not complicated. See, they aren’t so complicated. They don’t live with the soundsyou have here or the tensions you have, the litigations you have, the problems you have. I have seen Indians who have come here to earn money. They have all gone off their heads. I mean really, they have become half crazy.
The gentleman with whom I am now putting up, he told me already so many Indians have been under litigation. This happened, that happened and all kinds of tensions are building up. Here, despite all our modern venture and all that, we have also landed ourselves into terrible tensions of this machinery; this machinates and all that. The villagers in India are extremely simple people. They lead a very simple life. They have no complications. I would say that it would be so easy here the same way as they have got Realization. Of course, one has to work hard. Like we had recently about seven people. I had all of them. It took about three hours to get Realization. So, it could be that way also. It cannot be guaranteed; it cannot be promised. It cannot be certified. It has to happen is the main point is the happening is the happening. You have to become. It has to be actualized. It is not to be believed into. That’s what you should know. If you are honest, you are truthful and you want to have it, you’ll get it. I’ll work very hard. It’s you who has to have patience with yourself. I have all the patience and love. No doubt about it. But you all have to have patience. I told you, seven people, I was working for four years. Suppose it’s not going to be that bad because with them I worked out many permutations and combinations. Now, I know all the permutations and combinations that are really harmful to people and how they are barricaded. But still, I would say I have to still study some American complications which I do not know.
Nine years back, people were simpler people here and they are all mostly have gone away or also that time the same thing is that I could not contact the media and everything works on money. You see you have to give them money so they publicize you. Then they publicize you, then you get more money. Here there is no question of money, you see. You see the whole basic thing is you have to get real people for the real thing, without money. And then, you cannot have a big circus; you cannot have a big thing and it has to be started in a genuine way in a real way. They asked me that there is, there are agencies who work out all these things. I said to begin with I don’t think that this is important. We should work it out. Let’s see. There will be some people who will feel attracted and come. And let’s work it out this way. Still, I would like your advice as to where we can go, when, and in a decent manner whenever we can advertise. Just now a lady told us that if you go to these shops it will be a good idea.
We would like to invite people for this experience. This is your right. You are seekers and just like a bank, you have got your bank accounts and you just cash it. And there are lots of places also. And whatever mistakes are done, don’t worry about it. One of the big problems I faced in England is that they all suffer from a centre called left Vishuddhi which comes out of guilt. You see, they are guilty all the time. Maybe Catholicism that makes them feel guilty, but it’s a very, very common trouble with them. They, all the time, feel guilty. Now, what are you feeling guilty about? We must suffer. Why? Why should you suffer? Christ has suffered for you. Did he leave anything for you to suffer? We should be guilty about what? Why are you guilty? I’m talking of ocean of compassion, ocean of love. And what guilt can you have? And is a very big mistake to think that we have done little mistake here and little mistake there. God has to save this creation. It is He who has to come in compassion and has to do something about it. If He doesn’t save you, his creation is lost. You shouldn’t feel like that in a small way. It’s all very childish, I would say, like a child to feel “Oh I have done this mistake”. But no your Father is so great, is so full of love. You have to just look at Him and He’ll work it out. You should forgive yourself; that is one of the things I would request of you. First of all, before forgiving anybody else, you must forgive yourself. That is the first thing you have to do before Realization. Of course, in one lecture, I cannot tell you much about it. This is just an introductory lecture. And we haven’t brought our charts and all that because, first day, if you start seeing the charts, see you again become mechanical and you think it’s some sort of a computer. You have to work it out. Actually, you are a computer, you become a Divine computer. But that’s a different system and so it’s better that we talk about it just now. And you get your Realization; work it out. We are going to be here for some time and I hope you’ll be able to follow my lectures and follow the whole thing and it’s such a tremendous thing.
I must have given at least five hundred ( 500 ) lectures in London at least minimum. I still every time I speak they say “Mother, you are speaking something new.” So, you can imagine how much knowledge is there. But you are knowledge; you become knowledge yourself.
In Australia, the newspaper people were very good to me because there was some happening. A lady was very seriously ill and she had some sort of a very serious stroke and a friend of hers was a big man in the newspapers and one of the Sahaja Yoginis there gave My photograph to her. And she recovered from that from the photograph only. So, this man started thinking about it and then they did a big publicity for me. So, it was lucky, I should say, for Australians and I was there for about one month or so. Three weeks. And we got thousands there now thousands. There are seven cities where we have seven centres. It has worked. I must say, Australians are very good for Realization. It was surprising because certain people there got Realization and settled down and they knew it was the truth. That was the thing and you have to be intelligent enough to see what is the truth. Don’t allow your intelligence to cheat you. Be careful about your intelligence also, it can cheat you. But you should be really sharp about it to see what is the truth. And wise. And that’s what you are going to have.
Now, I would request you to ask Me questions because you see you all must be having lots of questions in your mind and you should better ask because I don’t want, while we are giving you Realization, that you should feel that, “Oh, I didn’t ask this question to Mother,” ‘though this makes no difference whether you ask Me questions or not. It’s a very different thing. It is beyond your mind. You go beyond your mind; beyond your ego; beyond your super-ego. You become something else. So if you have any questions, you can ask Me.
Question: Could we talk with the microphone off
Shree Mataji: You will be better off. You think. I was feeling that. [Question continues]. It’s not a good one (pointing to the mike). Can you hear me better?[ Audience: Yes.] Oh! It’s good. So, if there’s any question you can ask Me.
Question: There are many people who come with offering some Realization. [NOT CLEAR You come offering Realization.] You have a unique experience which I would like to know something about it. In other words, you have something unique to offer, yes?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, I would say I don’t know how many have come here and how many have been thugs and how many have been real. But, actually, most of them have been thugs only because what they offer you I don’t know I have had people from other gurus all kinds of gurus you see. And there are one or two sitting here. All of them have been to someone or something like that. Now as I told you, the uniqueness of Sahaja Yoga is this: Sahaja means “Saha” means with; “ja” is born, is born with you is your own, within you. Now the uniqueness about it is this: that it is what you are seeking. That’s what you are going to get, is your Spirit, is that you become that is the uniqueness. It’s not that I can say there is a course of ten days you go through the course or you pay for say a jumping course or a so-called flying course or something like that. It is what you are. You become that. The uniqueness of it is that it’s a happening which is a living happening.
You see, we don’t do anything that is a living work. What we do is a dead work. Like a tree died; we make chairs; we think we have achieved a lot. You see this hall is all made of dead things, isn’t it? We have just changed the form. And these forms actually try to dominate us. This chair becomes a sort of an obsession for us because we can’t sit on the ground this we have to use a chair like that.
Now, anything that we do is all dead. Supposing somebody has to jump. Anybody can jump., What is there to be jumping? People pay money to jump. Can you imagine? to take off clothes? people pay money. How can that be? What is so great about it? We must understand: what do we become? What powers do we become? You see, there’s a guru. He says, “All right, I give you some knowledge.” Now, what knowledge has he got?
One gentleman came. He said, “I’ve already got knowledge.” I said, “What knowledge do you have?” For example, now Warren can tell you where is your chakra catching. Where is your Kundalini; where it is obstructed; how to raise it; how to bring it up; how to take it up. Then he can cure patients. He must have cured I don’t know how many. You all can cure patients and knowingly what is it. What chakra is catching, what is happening, what is the mental process? Everything, you know in your awareness. You become a different person. It’s a transformation that takes place. You become master of yourself. To explain, I will tell you a very simple analogy. Say you are travelling by you are trying to learn how to drive. Now you have got an accelerator and you have got a brake. You’re working it out. You see one, then another. ( We have two centres, two channels within us which I show tomorrow to you, which are there. One for our desire and one for our actions.) So we start working both of these and start managing. We go to extremes this way that way and make all kinds of mistakes whatever it is but we try to balance ourselves. When do we learn the car driving? When we learn it. Once you have done that then the Master is sitting at the back. And once He sees you have balanced it, He gives you your place. You become the master of your being. This is what has to happen the breakthrough! The breakthrough has to take place. Is not just a make-believe that, “Oh, we have become like this.” I mean there are mad people who believe they are Self-realized. There are many like that, you see, they believe that they are that. They are not. Because they should be able to tell. They should become collectively conscious. They should be able to tell where is the Kundalini; where is the problem. Now, for example, you are sitting all right, now you do not know about the next gentleman sitting next to you, where is the problem? Where is his Kundalini? You cannot give him Realization. But the people who are Realized souls – even small children – can do it very small children. They will immediately say, “This is the centre catching. Here the finger, little children will show the same finger. For example, if you have a problem, say, on this centre. All right. All the children you put some sort of a thing to close their eyes. And ask them, “Which centre is catching?” They’ll all say this. All of them will say the same this. And they also know how to correct it. Little, little children know how to correct it. They are born Realized and born-realized children are dynamic. And they know. So many born Realized children are born these days. How will you know whether they are born Realized or not? You do not know who also who is a fake guru and who is a real guru. You don’t know anything! There’s no discrimination power. But, if you want to know also about that, you can just put the hands towards them and you can find out. Your vibrations will vanish completely. You’ll have heat coming from horrible gurus. If you see any horrible guru, you’ll find it’s a very bad vibrations coming from there, all burning and some of them just stop the vibrations. You just don’t get any vibrations from them. You can make it out from everyone what sort of a person he is.
For example, any absolute question, there are atheists who don’t believe in God. All right. Now when they get Realization they can ask the question, “Is there God?” Tremendous vibrations. To find out relatively, we can say, put three people – one from a guru who’s horrid, one from a lunatic asylum, and one who’s a realized soul, according to us. All right? Now you put them together. You’ll find the one who’s from the guru, maybe feeling hot very hot or may not get Realization at all maybe frozen, anything. The one from lunatic asylum may feel also hot, horrible but he may get well, he may get Realization. And the third person, who is the one who is a realized soul will get only a cool breeze. We have cured many people who are mentally like that, many are been cured and you can cure also.
It is you who become that – is the point. You become that – it’s your right. You have been seeking all your lives. Actually, it is impossible to believe that there could be someone who does it just for love’s sake. We can’t believe such a person but it is so. It is so incredible for people, they just can’t believe it. It’s an impossibility for them to belive that there is a person who just loves you. You just can’t believe it because it’s so money-oriented – the whole thing is so money oriented that we can’t believe it. Even our parents; we think they love us for money. I mean, it has gone to that limit of absurdity. But God is love and love is there. Ånd in his love everyone should do it. It has to happen.
Any other questions?
Question: (A woman asks where the other public meeting will be).
(Warren says he’ll make an announcement later)
Shri Mataji: You see, all of us have got it and we’ll give all that to you and you’ll come along to those lectures and you will help us to bring (you see actually we do not know how to meet the seekers. That’s the main point with us. And we don’t need anything else. Like the lady offered? also. We don’t need it. We don’t need any money. We have everything. We have no problem. And no money, nothing. We have got places to live in and we have no problem of any kind. What we want we have also got halls and everything and we don’t need anything. But what we want that we want seekers to come down and you have to suggest how to get them; that’s all.
(Announcements of meetings)
Question: ( A lady asks for Mother’s comment on somebody but asks Her not to judge.)
Shri Mataji: No, I have to. I’m sorry, I have to. You see, it’s very good of you to say that I should not make comment But I have to. I’m sorry.
Because you see, I can’t bear to see the way their Kundalini’s have gone down. The comment has to be. You see, when Christ was criticizing them, they said the same thing to him. “Why should you criticize them? They don’t critisize you?”
So He said, “The Satanic are not going to speak against the Satanic.”
That’s what it is. You do not know how serious it is. When you will know, you will be amazed. You do not know how serious it is and that’s why you are saying that. Once you will find out why I am saying it. You see, it is not easy to say anything against these people. It’s not easy. But none of them I have said about them each one of them about l0 years back openly about each one of them who they are. Nobody has ever tried to even bring any suit or any lawsuit against me. And whatever is wrong, I have to say that. I’m sorry, my child. You see, this is not a thing where you can allow Satanic things to happen. We have to discriminate. You will know yourself. It is. You cannot love a snake like that. You must know a snake is a snake and a human being is a human being. Everybody has his own values. You see, here I am not here going to be angry with you for that. But I am definitely angry with them! with all of them! Definitely. You do not know. You just wait and see. You yourself will be so angry. I’ll show you., A girl who came from say one of these things, she was epileptic. Her daughter was epileptic. Her husband was epileptic. She was a granddaughter of a Duke. She had lost all her money. They had sold their house. They were on the streets. Absolutely. And she is a seeker! If you are a mother, what would you say to that?
You will say they are very nice people? You will go and garland them? Not one, but I’ll show you thousands of them. Here we have cases who have come. She is [NOT CLEAR Hesta] – sitting here. You just ask her. How much she was harmed! How was she was harmed? She would have been dead! Do you think I should say they are nice people? Apart from anything else, they spoil your chances of Realization.
I am not here for votes or anything. Why should I try to please them? I have to tell the truth if you don’t mind. I have to tell.
Question: Oh, then I would just like to ask, what about people that are doing chakra therapy and they charge very high prices? Maybe they are not high prices and they help people and yet people don’t have that kind of money. I would like to ask you, what do you think about people who do chakra therapy and charge fees?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know what sort of a [NOT CLEAR ?)] make-believes. How can you have any chakra therapy without Realization? It’s all make-believe. You believe all these nonsensical people. What am I to do now? Why do you believe them? You see chakra therapy, I mean I don’t know an ordinary Indian can understand. Only a saint can do it. He has to be a saint. How can he charge money? A saint will not take a pie from you. It is a simple thing, try to understand that.
Question: Well, I always thought that, but this is America.
Shree Mataji: Chakra therapy is a new thing, I’ve heard. (laugh) (woman keeps telling her story)
Shri Mataji: I will tell you that. What is it? You might get a temporary help. No doubt about it. You can get a temporary help. You see, now you are bringing into controversies so I have to tell you about it. But you don’t mind it. What happens within us, we have some stored energies in the chakras, all right? And, like acupuncture, is also is not to be done by a person who is not a realized soul. Is to be done only by realized souls. If acupuncture is done by somebody who is not a realized soul I mean it’s against Zen. It’s against. You have to be a kashyapa, I mean people don’t read about it. A kashyapa means a realized soul. If you are not a realized soul, you are not suppose to do it.
Now, this one also – chakra therapy – what you can do is to work on the sympathetic nervous system. Now the sympathetic nervous system, you can pull out the little energy that you have, but you develop other problems with it. Sahaja Yoga is a thing by which you get open to the All-pervading Power all the time flowing within us. You have to open to yourself to that universal being within your heart which is the Spirit. You don’t have to sort of lessen energy here and energy there and energy there. You don’t have to take that energy out. But the energy from the above comes in. Like grace, it flows. And that’s how always such things can lead to terrible problems, mental problems, all kinds of things.
Supposing you try to treat somebody mentally then you extract the physical energy. Then the person will suffer physically. You see, this stored energy for a particular chakra, which I will explain to you everything all right? And you cannot charge for raising your Kundalini because you have your Kundalini intact there. You are just there. You have everything. Only thing, by my being here, your Kundalini rises by itself. So you cannot pay. Do you pay the Mother Earth for sprouting a seed?
They do help temporarily. They do. For example, somebody gives you a mantra. All right, take a mantra I’ll tell you, say, they say Rama Sita. Now, there cannot be one mantra given to everyone. In any science of mantras. Because you people are so naive you see they say “all right, you take the name of Rama.” This cannot be done. Rama mantra is only on the right heart chakra. If you have a problem, has to be given by a realized soul because it has to be a connected one. It has a science, you know. All of them know what mantra is to be said at what point because they know how to raise the Kundalini they know where it is obstructed and what mantra is to be said and which Deity is to be awakened. What is the mantra for which particular chakra, they know all that. And they know all this methods.
But why they may give you a mantra? Now, you may feel better, really, sometimes you may feel dynamic. You feel, “Oh, I am very activated; maybe I am overactive.” A spirit with that name may be around which) may come around and you may become possessed and you might become extremely active, you see. But, then you’ll go down. Within five years, there will be a complete decline. You’ll be a recluse. You’ll be a frightened person. You’ll be a coward. You won’t be able to even there are people I’ve known who cannot even face (what do you call that ) garlic. Can you imagine afraid of a vegetable? It’s really there are people, if you snow then garlic, they are frightened. I mean, are you going to become like that? Is that freedom?
Seeker: (A man had tried raising his Kundalini by himself). ...And it’s back for twenty years now, I have still something up in my head, here, and here and here, then here, and down here but it’s, it has gone any further than that. Well, this is a sort of-
Shri Mataji: You see, if you try your own self, you see trying with the Kundalini- actually the sympathetic goes into activity. You have no right on the parasympathetic. Parasympathetic is the one which balances and that is the central path of Sushumna through which the Kundalini has to rise. But if you try anything, what you do is always you can use sympathetic. I’ll give you an example. Supposing you are running fast, all right? Then you can raise the rate of your heart. But you cannot slow it down. It slows down by itself. That is parasympathetic activity. So you just get into sympathetic activity and by sympathetic activity, if you overdo it, then all these symptoms happen and it’s not helpful. On the contrary, chakras go into quitelike, this is the left and the right sympathetic and these are the centers). They get pulled down like that and if they are pulled like this, then you are harmed. So it is not an experience of Kundalini; but is of the sympathetic.
Seeker: This, this isn’t anything I was looking for or asking ... Things happen but I guess it’s a chock... but how Kundalini went down, instead of coming up?” [Question is not very clear]
Shri Mataji: No, it doesn’t go down. Kundalini never goes down. It goes upward always. The thing that comes down is the grace, you see. The grace comes down, not the Kundalini. Kundalini always goes upwards. And the grace comes on your sympathetic which cools you down completely. You become absolutely relaxed with the grace. But the Kundalini itself always goes up. It never comes down. But, in people, it so happens that Kundalini goes through this central path. Now, if it is sort of, very much ragged or if it is extremely smooth due to the mistakes of the seekers, then it falls down. It falls down- is a different point then going like that. It falls down. Then you have to raise it again and tie it up. Again, raise it and tie it up. In many people, it has to be done but it can work out.
You will get the complete knowledge, don’t you worry. Now, he has been as he said eighteen months, but he is a master of Kundalini. He can raise your Kundalini and you are just like him. You would become the same. There’s no problem at all. It will work out.
Seeker: How did you get your Realization?
Shri Mataji: I was born like that. I’m like this for ages, ancient. I am a mystery I should say at the beginning. We should keep it as a mystery. Then you’ll discover Me. All right? Let’s have it that way. First, you discover yourself and then, discover Me. Will be a better idea, isn’t it? Because I don’t want to say something which will unnecessarily make, you know, people upset. Best is, you become something.
Seeker lady: Is it true that a Realized guru has cool air?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Seeker lady: Not hot one?
Shri Mataji: No, hot is very dangerous. Those who give hot-
Seeker lady: I’ve been said cool one is also dangerous.
Shri Mataji: Not very cool, but you don’t get air. You might feel extremely cool if you are a low blood pressure patient. If you are left-sided, if you are possessed, you feel absolutely cool, very cool. That’s not good. Feeling cool is different from a cool breeze; like, you feel a breeze coming. But should not be hot in any case. Hot is a very dangerous thing. If it is too hot, that means it’s not good.
Seeker lady: How we should get the hot air?”
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Seeker lady: Why do you get hot air?
Shri Mataji: It’s a friction. It’s a friction with the Divine. You see, when the Kundalini is rising, She should normally give you cool, cool breeze in the hands, then she rises, yes. But if there’s a friction, always friction makes it hot, you see, but it cools down. There’s no problem. In the beginning, most of you will get hot, little bit. Because, after all, you see, you know, we are all very complicated people. Our brains especially are modern brains, you see. So we have been thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking. Just, we cannot stop our thinking for a minute even.
But the first thing that will happen is that you enter into thoughtless awareness. That’s called as Nirvachara Samadhi in Sanskrit. Means you become, you are aware, absolutely aware. There are no thoughts. The thoughts- that’s the awakening of Christ – that thing should happen to you. Once that happens, then it passes through here (Sahasrara) and you can feel the cool breeze.
Many people who smoke cannot feel the breeze in the hand in the beginning, because of this chakra [Vishuddhi] being a little bit in trouble. But, then you start feeling.
Masha, you feel quite all right in the hands?
Masha: Yes [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: She used to smoke. She is a great seeker, I must say.
All right, should we have it now?
What about you? Come forward it will be better for Me, alright. It will be better. Just come.
It doesn’t give any trouble. Doesn’t give any problems, nothing. Forget all that what you have read about Kundalini. She is your mother. She is your holy mother. She is your individual mother. But she is love, how can she trouble you? She is the one who gives you Realization. All these are absurd ideas. And people who are unauthorised have written about it. It’s nothing of the kind.
Question: If we’re going to receive the Kundalini awakening, is it a process over several days?
Shri Mataji: No, it is a split of a second actually; it is a split of a second. But it takes time in some people, as I said, because if there are obstructions you see. Now if you have a beautiful runway and a beautiful aircraft, then the landing and take-off is very smooth. But sometimes it is a second-hand stop.
Seeker: Then, you mean it may come tomorrow?
Warren: No, it’s highly likely you’ll get it tonight.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, just now. Just now. But you have to learn how to maintain it, is the point. Just now, you are going to have it. Just now, you are going to have it. Just now. It’s spontaneous. It is just now. But only thing is that you should know how to maintain it. Now supposing you get it and then outside you go, start thinking about it. Then it goes down. The vibrations will be lost. You have to be careful. It’s like a seed sprouting, you know a seed sprouting. It’s a seedling in the beginning. So you have to be careful. About seven days, if you are careful, it is settled down. Seven days you have to be a little careful. Which we will tell you how to be careful about it.
Seeker: The reason I’m asking is because we’ll become messengers.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, of course. Next time I’m not going to import people from Australia and from England. You have got to have the Americans here to do this job. We are not going to import them from all over the place. Two are coming from Switzerland. So that’s not a very good sign. I think, we should, actually, Americans should go abroad and do it. They’ll go to India and to Indian villages and they’ll do it there, in the Indian villages. Very simple, all right?
Question: (Unintelligible something about a headache).
Shri Mataji: I tell you what’s the problem with you? You have a liver problem. You have a liver problem and that is showing. You see this is the beauty of Sahaja Yoga. Once you get Realization, you start seeing your body; feeling it. Where very our problem, you know. You have a liver problem and it has to be corrected. But, I know you have a liver problem sitting down here. And it’s very simple. Now in Sahaja Yoga, you can correct your liver in no time. Once you correct your liver, you’ll have never a headache. But, it suggests that you have that and you’d better get rid of it. You see it’s good you have a headache, now you’ll get after your liver. Otherwise, it becomes horribly bad, if you continue. I mean, a person becomes mad and still he doesn’t know that he’s gone mad. It’s like that. The disease crawls into you. But in Sahaja Yoga, immediately you know. And you are a liver patient, you know that. It has to be corrected and it’s not difficult. Most of the diseases can be cured, except for a few like I should say, cataracts or something like that where something is dead or maybe where they put an artificial limb and all that. We can’t work out all of these things. But most of the things get cured, automatically. I mean, here they say if you cure somebody, you’ll be put in the prison. But, I mean, I don’t cure. You just get cured, you see. So I hope legally I’m all right. Christ would have been in jail here. I don’t know about the laws. But this time, I’m sure they cannot crucify me. It’s alright. Let’s work it out.