Two Interviews 1990-06-29
ภาษาปัจจุบัน: ภาษาอังกฤษ. การบรรยายที่มีให้ในภาษา: ภาษาอังกฤษ
29 June 1990
Interview
Kyiv (Ukraine)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
FIRST INTERVIEW
Shri Mataji: ... higher. Because at your stage, people do not know the absolute truth. So, that higher state has been achieved, which I call as the state of the Spirit. And when you become the Spirit, then you get to know or to feel, on your nervous system, the All-pervading Power which is doing all the living work. As these flowers have come out of the seeds, you see. Like we have become human beings from amoeba. All this living work is done by this pervading Power which is the power of love, you can say, because it is absolute, it is the truth.
So, we have to achieve that state. Once you achieve that state, what happens? That you get empowered that you can give this thing to others also, because in every human being, there is this residual power which we call as Kundalini in the triangular bone. And like as you have this connection, you get connected with that Power by the ascent or awakening of this power from your triangular bone.
When it passes through your fontanel bone area, then you get connected to that subtle energy which you normally do not feel, because the human awareness still gross, you have to accept it. So this is the knowledge of the roots. You have the knowledge of the tree, you see. And we have this whole civilization and the tree has grown too much. So we have to find out our roots, otherwise it's a shock.
Interviewer: I understand it because I have a small experience before this. A second question [unclear] extra-sense.
Shri Mataji: I’ll tell you.
Interviewer: [Unclear] Many, many intellectuals who are in our country, pathways that such events or for a great audience, it's rather interesting people [unclear] what you can say for this?
Shri Mataji: It’s a very dangerous thing to play with these things, because they cannot explain how they work it out, they have no idea.
Recently, I talked to the scientists and told them that, "You have no idea of the areas which we call as collective subconscious. From where all the viruses come, from where all these proteins that cause cancer and all that come. That area, you are not aware of".
And these people have [unclear] that area and put some dead things on us, and we become mesmerized and our brain is washed. Little bit, you might feel better because some other personality has come on you. But it has such a bad effect.
Recently, in Moscow, I met all the children who had come, who have been watching a film of someone like that. And all the time every morning they sit and watch. One boy had his eyes completely constricted and had gone towards the nose, n you see. Another one had a brain paralysis. Another one was feeling ill all the time, his brain was out. Another one had his hand stuck to his body. Another one could not even walk. So, all these things happened after seeing them.
So in the beginning, they thought it might improve them or something. All the children who were watching, were innocent. They didn't know what was happening. So this is a very well-known thing, in India, we call it [unclear], means the knowledge of the dead. And they use the dead to mesmerize people and utilize them. And they cannot explain how they do it.
But Sahaja Yoga can be explained very easily. Scientists can understand, doctors can understand, because it is the control of the parasympathetic nervous system. It is the science of all the sciences, and it can explain everything clearly. It's not that just a blind sort of a thing, it is not. And secondly, that these people are very money oriented. They want money out of it.
This is a living process which I am doing. Sahaja Yoga means, ‘saha’ means with, ‘ja’ is born, is this yoga means the union with this All-pervading Power. It’s your right as a living person, as a seed can become a flower and the flower has a right to become a fruit. You have a right to become a super human being. But that is to be explained, first of all and you cannot pay. You don't pay anything to the Mother Earth for giving you flowers. So, you can't pay for it. It's not a money-oriented nonsense.
Interviewer: I understand. Then the last question. Can you say that, as far as I know, in India, and in certain areas, it has the most largest audience.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Interviewer: I said, in India, in your country, it has the most largest audience than in other countries. Why is it so? It's actually means that most of people who came for your program, came to take from you a health, first of all, and not the experience.
Shri Mataji: The experience. They came from the experience. It's very easy. I must say, in India, they have a background and they know what is true and what is false. They say, "Thank God, we don't have much money. So, all these horrible false people have gone to America and to all the places, to befool them". Now in your country, they could have come. Thank God you don't have that much money. Thank God for that, this time.
But also another thing is there, that you see, you people have no conditionings of any religion. No conditionings. The other countries have conditionings, you see. Like they have Christianity, Islam, things like that. These are all man-made religions. The real religion is within yourself. And they do not follow, they do not follow Christ, they do not follow Mohammed sahib, they do not follow. They have their own style of following and they are not looking for what is said in all the religions. It's said that you must seek the eternal and whatever is transitory is to be treated in its own understanding and its own limitations.
But these people are not finding out the eternal but just money. They are money-oriented or power-oriented. You see, they'll meet the kings, the prime ministers, this that. They are more interested in power, or they are more interested in money. But they are not interested in saintliness. Their lives are not saintly. They have to be pure people. They are not.
But as a result of that, you become so pure. But I think, basically, Russians are very wise people, I think. I don't understand why, how, how it has clicked. I mean everybody, we have some Americans here, they said, "We just find [unclear]". And they came only for experience. Very few came for sickness, very few with their children or something, very few. Most of them were very well-educated people, professionals, very nice people.
Then you are so good, and we have everything here, everything.
Interviewer: I want to be as [unclear] as you, thank you.
Shri Mataji: You must have faith in yourself. That's the point I'm saying to all the Russians. You must have faith in yourself. That's very important. Have faith in yourself. That is someway or other lacking.
Interviewer: I’ll try to do this.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: I hope, I hope you will help your young people here, because this can take you out of drugs, out of alcohol, out of so many things and you make a powerful people.
Interviewer: [Unclear] very interesting.
Shri Mataji: Yes?
And the young get it very much faster and they settle into it very much faster also.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
Interviewer: That’s our [unclear].
Shri Mataji: Thank you. Thank you.
[Cut in the video]
SECOND INTERVIEW
Shri Mataji: ... And I want to work it out. And once you get your Self-realisation, you definitely know what I am. But I must be something, isn't it?
Lady: Yes, another question about the meditation. It's in such a way you don't have your person to be.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it works out. Many people have been cured only by photograph. I was not there. So they used My photograph for the patients and they were cured. So, it has something to do with it. And after this, I've shown some photographs which you’ll be surprised how things happen. You know, the cameras are catching up with the vibrations.
Lady: Yeah, and another question is that, for example, in our country, in Kiev, we have some group of people that meditate in the star, on the star. And because they believe that in the star there are the best, the best representation of the God, and the space energy too.
Shri Mataji: And what stars?
Lady: A little blue star, they see that he is in the sky. And meditate with it.
Shri Mataji: It’s all mental. It’s artificial.
Lady: But how can you feel when those people that exactly meditate on you?
Shri Mataji: They need not be a meditate on Me, they have to meditate on themselves. First they should find out themselves. They have to raise their own Kundalini. And they should feel this All-pervading Power. Then they have to know that they have now become the Spirit. You see, when they are established, they will see, through them, this power will be flowing. And they get empowered and they can cure people. And this can be explained even scientifically. The whole thing is absolutely like a ‘glasnost’, you see, absolutely transparent. You can see for yourself. So this is not something imaginary.
Lady: OK.
[Someone else is speaking in Russian]
Lady: My friend said in Russian to me, his stomach was ill. But when he came and see you, his illness was lost.
Shri Mataji: It was lost. The other day, we had a lady suffering from what was she suffering from what was the decease?
Sahaja Yogi: Multiple sclerosis.
Shri Mataji: Multiple sclerosis. And she could not walk, she could not sit down, very difficult for her. And we raised her Kundalini. It's your own power. We raised her Kundalini and by raising the Kundalini she was all right. But still she was remembering as if she was still ill. So I told her, "Now get up and walk". And she started walking so fast, and you think you know what had happened to her. It's a vital power which works it out and your own power corrects everything.
Lady: Thank you.
Other person: Spasibo.
Shri Mataji: Maybe you should ask about this. You have to ask.
Lady: Well, now I have the extra sensorial have a meeting this day [unclear] meeting with that force only in this day, the 29 of June. And it is very interesting. Why this day is so good? How do you think?
Shri Mataji: [Laughing] No, that’s nothing. Always, you see, negative forces- positive forces could destroy that. But what I was chocked was that, I saw some children, quite a lot in Moscow, who had seen a Hindu, somebody who is ESP [extra sensorial perception] sort of things. And he- the children are suffering terribly. Their eyes have become brown and their hands have become shortened like this. Some children can't walk. Some have paralysed brain and somebody's brain is off, like that. And they are very, very small children, they are about say, up to ten years of age. And they have been watching the film and they got these problems, you see. So, I had to correct them. Then I discovered that these people are putting some sort of a spirit, dead spirit on them, mesmerizing them and brain washing people also.
So, you should be very careful, very, very careful with them. We know all these things in India. We call it as a plague of India. They use the knowledge of the dead. They use this knowledge of the death and mesmerize people and brainwash them. They never [unclear]. For the time being, it might appear to be little bit exciting, because another personality comes sit on you. But later on, it is very harmful. And this is what all the false gurus are doing in many grand places. And here these people have come. They are very money-oriented. They want to have money.
But Sahaja Yoga is a living process, is a developed study, a living process which you cannot pay for that. Like, we don't pay to Mother Earth for giving us flowers. So it's a living process. So, this is one thing one must understand, that this living force is also explainable, is to be understood. You can get to it, you yourself can master it. And you all can cure. And not only cure, but you can enjoy life much better.
Lady: I have another question about the teachers, about the real sahaj teachers and not -because I think there are like teachers [unclear] after it they became more ill than before. How do you think about this problem? It's really dangerous and really big problem in our time.
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is because you know it's a market, they think there's a market of people who are seeking the truth. So they have come out. Some of them have come out from Indian jails, you see. And some of them from a very ordinary type of life. They have very ordinary people and very limited.
One better than the other, some teaching this yoga, another teaching that yoga, somebody teaching transcendental meditation, all this is falsehood. Falsehood just to make money and it is the same as I told you with ESP to mesmerize people. The thing is, you must see the disciples, what have they achieve, you see. Like you see these, my children are here, they are so knowledgeable all over the world. They are so nice. They are so righteous. They are so friendly. They are so much above normal people. So, you should see these people and then understand. But if you go to their disciples, you find they are just the same. Not only that, but they are worse because they are sick. So, be very careful.
There is one fellow who is giving diamonds, Sathya Sai Baba, another is this TM. Another is this Integral Yoga, then Raja Yoga, all this. I talked to them yesterday, at length. I told them, I explained to them, how they are false people. You can get the tape and see for yourself.
But one thing one must do, if you don't give them any money, then they will all go away.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
That's the main thing, just because they are beggars, that's all. You can purchase them very easily.
Lady: And another question. Can you explain, in few words, your socials on 70th years, because we hear a lot of them, but not from you, and it's very hard to find some information about it because we know that we have some resources in 70th years [unclear question].
Shri Mataji: Seventeen?
Lady: In 70th year, 1970.
Shri Mataji: What about?
Lady: The medicine resources of the Kundalini.
Lady: I’ve discovered it, in a way, you see. I - of course I was born with the knowledge - but what I felt that, it should be made ‘en masse’, people should get it. So with my subtle ideas and subtle attention, I tried to study human beings: what are their problems, why can’t we have ‘en masse’. Any discovery has to be ultimately going to public, to the collective. Otherwise, what's the use? So, I worked it out. And in 1970, I discovered a method by which it can be done [unsure]. Then I started it, one week. Now so many years have passed, and it’s working out very well.
Thank you.
I bless you. [Shri Mataji does namaste]
Lady: Thank you, Mother.
Lady: [Unclear].
Shri Mataji: Please do, please do help them, they will be. I think Russians are someway or other, the greatest country. All right?
Lady: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi] A little present for you from Mother. [Unclear].
Lady: [Unclear] I haven’t a present for you, here. But I think, we have a present in the articles that we will publish at Santeria.
Shri Mataji: Yes, thank you very much. Thank you. And we have a center here, we have a very good center and people are quite equipped. And they can - you can go to the center, and can get full advantage and you’ll have to learn everything, you master it. Young people are the best to learn it and they are very enthusiastic. It works out. You can help them. You can save this country completely. It's very easy.
Because one thing good about Russians, is that they are not conditioned. They don't have this religious nonsense and things. Because, you see, all these religions are man-made. They are not following Christ, they are not following Mohammed Sahib, they are not following Rama, they are not following Krishna. What they are following is their own ideas, just to make money. They are either power-oriented or they are money-oriented, not spiritual-oriented.
Lady: And for example, as I know that all money that you can have for this meeting will be sent to the center of the Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Yes, and you see this money that we get, is just the tickets. And tickets we sell, because we have to sell the tickets. And then we have to give it to the Sahaja Yoga center, because we have to establish here our Sahaja Yoga center. But also all the countries have sent money here for them. They have all sent it for them to use, and they want to help here. There are forty nations who are trying their level best, to do something for Russians here. But still, this money now has started, we never had any money before. And whatever money we gave also goes to some way or another, because we have no independent organization. So, somebody miss having [unsure] the money. But now I think we'll have some money just for our work here. And we'll be publishing books about Sahaja Yoga. We'll be also having other things from Sahaja Yoga like my tapes and audio tapes and video tapes and something like that. So we'll do something and that you can always have. Thank you.
Lady: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Yes, please wear. It goes with your blouse.
[Unclear conversation]
Oh, your men are very good. Ours are not. Ours are good for nothing.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
Oh, good, good.
Lady: Thank you. It’s very beautiful.
Thank you.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
[Cut in the video]
SECOND INTERVIEW
[The interviewer translates a lady’s questions]
Interviewer: For us, the response is very great. A lot of questions: how to protect oneself from radiation.
Shri Mataji: From radiation? Yes, yes. They should take their Realization and then they'll be protected, automatically. Because when you get your Realisation, then the vibrations are flowing on your body and the radiations are thrown out. Your aura gets vibrations and that changes the protective cases.
Interviewer: She was told that in Moscow you were giving a special method of raising Kundalini using three candles.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that is for sick people. Or people who are already suffering from psychosomatic troubles. Like blood cancer also. Because people get blood cancer with this. They get blood cancer with this radiation.
So, with that method they can be cured.
Interviewer: In Ukraine, we have many people who have the same disease, leukaemia, how can they be helped?
Shri Mataji: So that can be helped with this three candles treatment. Very much. We have cured many in India. And they can be cured very easily. But they have to come to our center with candles.
We will be training people here, to tell them how to cure them.
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, you have been here six months ago, before. What do you think about quality of your students?
Shri Mataji: Oh, wonderful! They are really wonderful.
Interviewer: How do they?
Shri Mataji: Very nice. They are not conditioned people. They have no ego and they love Me. Interviewer: She asked about the quality of your students, Mother also. All students of Sahaja Yogis who are in this country.
Shri Mataji: That's what I told.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: They love Me very much and I love them very much too.
Interviewer: Would you like to travel around cities of the republic of Ukraine? Because our readers from our newspapers wanted this very much.
Shri Mataji: May I travel around?
Interviewer: In different cities of this republic called Ukraine.
Shri Mataji: Yes, if I have time. But today, this time, I don't have. But I would love to go for that myself.
Now I am going to the Eastern Bloc countries, and my schedule is such that I can only stay in a place for about, at the most, two days or three days.
Interviewer: Is Sahaja Yoga as popular in the Soviet Union and other Easthern European countries?
Shri Mataji: Very much. Thousands. I didn't go, only my students went, I didn't go Myself. There are thousands.
Interviewer: We receive many letters, you know, and people ask us since they are, most of them are Christians you know if your teaching doesn't contradict Christianity.
Shri Mataji: No, not at all. It's real Christianity. The one they follow is unreal. Because all that Christianity is just money-oriented. It’s all money-oriented.
I went to see with My husband the head of the - what you call - this Greek Orthodox Church. The head of Greek Orthodox Church. And he said they are fasting. And he got so drunk that he could not even see us off. As a reality. I am doing the work of Christ. As Christ has said that, "You have to be born again". And also my students believe that I am the incarnation of the Holy Ghost, as told in the Bible.
Because I give comfort to people. I am a comforter. I am a counsellor. I am redeemer because I give them Realization.
Comforter. And a counsellor. I counsel people. I tell them all about it. And a redeemer. I redeem. I give you Realization. I am a redeemer. Redeemer, because in your evolutionary process, I raise you higher to the Spirit state.
From the human to the Spirit state, which Christ has said. In India, everybody thinks Me to be that. Things need to be the same, because Mahakali, Mahalakshmi, Mahasaraswati. They have different names, that's all. These are three powers. Three powers of the Primordial Mother, of the Holy Ghost. The Mahakali is the Comforter. Mahalakshmi is the Redeemer. And Mahasaraswati is the Counsellor. And all these combine together to form the Holy Ghost which we call as the Adi Shakti. Adi Shakti is the Primordial Mother.
Now, you see, Christians believe in the Father the God and the Child the God. What about the Mother? They don't call it Holy Ghost. They call it Holy Ghost, but it's the Mother. It's the Primordial Mother. Because this Paul didn't want women to be given importance. And he was a Roman, Paul. He was not with Christ. He was not with Christ. And he was an epileptic. And he just wanted to use the platform of Christianity. And he organized Christianity. And you cannot organize Divine, you cannot organize. Because he wanted power and misled everyone.
Even the churches are very money-oriented. I could only meet this gentleman because I was a VIP. Otherwise, as a saint, he would not have met Me. He only meets the kings or queens or something.
Now, it is said, also, in the Bible, that, "You will not covet". You will covet. It’s a curse on the city on seven hills, you see.
Interviewer: Yes
Shri Mataji: And that you will covet. Covet means you will have relationships, not good relationships. Relationships with the kings and the queens. It’s already said. It's true, about the city of Rome, on seven hills. It is on seven hills. It’s already being said.
But this is the time of Last Judgment.
And your Kundalini is going to judge you. Your Kundalini, the power within you, is going to judge you. Even in Quran it is said that, "At the time of your resurrection, your hands will speak". He meant Sahaja Yoga. Of course, in the Indian scriptures, Bhrigumuni, the originator of our science of astrology, has predicted everything in details, about modern times. The book is called as Nadi Granth.
Interviewer: It's very famous book, Nadi Granth.
Shri Mataji: The exact date of my birth. And also 1970, Sahaja Yoga is going to start. And people will get their Realization. Because we knew about Kundalini for thousands of years. In great masses, ‘en masse’. It's already predicted. That's why, in India, I have no problem.
Interviewer: I should say that in other countries, they are not too many people who get Realization. So you have to do a lot of work and time is needed for this work.
Shri Mataji: I know. But Russia is not like that. Russia is very good. You see, you can say one thing, that those who follow religions, any religion, they can commit any sin. They can do anything wrong. They can murder even. So this religion is not real. But when you become the Spirit, then you don't do all these things. You become a righteous person automatically.
So real Christianity, we should ask. Real Christianity. Christ has also said that, "You'll be calling Me ‘Christ, Christ’. I won't recognize you". He said it very clearly.
Interviewer: Our astrologers predict very great problems.
Shri Mataji: Of course. Because they are money-oriented.
Interviewer: What do you think about it? Do you agree with it or not?
Shri Mataji: No, they don't know much. They have not much knowledge. And one should not worry about it. After Realization, all your fortune and future changes fast.
Interviewer: Thank you very much. I am very happy to see you here, that you came to our country.
Shri Mataji: Oh, thank you very much. This country is going to be very great. It's going to be very great, because people are going to be very powerful. But you all must have faith in yourself, it’s the point. You are a great people.
There's a little present for you. If you say, ‘padarat’ [unsure]. If you say, in my language.
Interviewer: You are not Sanskrit or Hindu. You are talking about...
Shri Mataji: No, no, Marathi. In Sanskrit: ‘padaarat’.
No, no, padaarat. But in Marathi it is ‘padarat’. In Hindi also.
Padarat in Sanskrit. But in Hindi it is ‘padaarate’. So many words, we have. So many Sanskrit words. They have also this ‘tse’ in your language?
Interviewer: Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: ‘Tse’, only Chinese have, you have and Marathi.
Interviewer: Yes, no other language.
Shri Mataji: Only three.
We have an ancient relationship.
Interviewer: Mother, in language Marathi, I found many words similar to words in Russian language. Is Marathi much different than language Hindi?
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: It's much different.
Shri Mataji: You see, it is because they were Rama's children, named Lav and Kush. They are Rama's children. And one came to Caucasus, so you are Slavs. And another went to China, so they are Kushans. And this one, Chinese, were called as Kushans.
So, and they lived in Maharashtra. They grew in Maharashtra. So, the language has common. Interviewer: Whose Mother?
Shri Mataji: Sita, the mother.
Interviewer: Yes. OK. And Maharashtra has connections somehow with
Shri Mataji: With these two countries. They are not from the north. Nobody can say it, ‘tse’. It's not easy. Even north Indians cannot say ‘tse’.
Interviewer: Yes. English people they cannot.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. Even our north Indians. No one can say ‘tse’, except for Maharashtrians and Russians and Chinese. So, we have. And Maharashtra is a country of saints. Saints, lots of saints, all the time.
Interviewer: [Unclear] of the Kundalini, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it’s the country of the Kundalini. Adi Kundalini.
In the universe, you see. Like Russia is the Agnya Chakra in the universe.
And China is the Back Agnya in the universe.
Interviewer: She asks about Ukraine.
Shri Mataji: I mean, for us, Ukraine, Russia is one, like the whole world is one, in any case, like one body.
Interviewer: Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: Very nice to meet you.
[End of conversation]
[Cut in the video; scenes of Kyiv]