Radio Interview 1983-08-24
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
24 August 1983
Interview
Geneva (Switzerland)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
Shri Mataji: [? but] important that we still linger on with other trips, like [? ego trips)]. So if somebody talks big we believe him. These people are money-oriented and they have lots of money and they can put in advertisements and we get impressed by [unclear]. Recently, to My surprise, I discovered that in England they have something called “chequebook journalism”.
Sahaja Yogi (to Swiss translator): It means that the journalist – I don’t know if it’s true – that there is payment made to journalists for reporting according to what they personally want.
Shri Mataji: That’s the phrase they use, chequebook journalism.
Swiss translator (to Shri Mataji): He (a man speaking French) asks – in Geneva it is the first time that he saw such a publicity for a personality like You. All the advertisements, papers in the [letterbox] and very big posters all over the place, and he said: “This cost lots of money.”
Shri Mataji: No, it did not. What happened [was] that we did not pay to anyone. Luckily, the authorities allowed us to quickly [unclear]. But we didn’t give anybody under the table any money.
Sahaja Yogi: Printing costs [unclear].
Shri Mataji: Also there are so many Sahaja Yogis all over the world, for example these people from Australia were sending some posters for America.
But I will tell you about how the gurus work. You see what they do, they [? get to] some journalist, give them a large amount of money, to the newspaper they pay a very large amount of money which we cannot afford to [unclear]. As if they are sold out. You see, as if they are sold out. The amount is so much, as if they are sold out. This Mahesh Yogi – Mahesh Yogi has got six thousand [unclear] of rupees only in India, six thousand [unclear] of rupees.
Sahaja Yogi: Sixty billion.
Shri Mataji: Sixty billion. Of money in India, only Indian money, and here he has much more.
Swiss translator: He (man speaking French) asks, why this – all this publicity? Is it to – to get a great amount of people, and for which truth, is it for a truth? Is it to attract them to give them a truth?
Shri Mataji: You see, now the thing is the consciousness has to rise to a new level of collective consciousness, [it] is the birth of a new evolutionary process. And these are special times called Blossom Time. And we here were also created for this purpose, to spread this message. So [the] maximum number of people get their rightful evolution. Rightful, rightful.
Swiss translator: He (man speaking French) asks, what will happen to these people who are coming to the confluences [? conferences] now? Will they get something, and what will happen afterwards? Will they come here for meditation or will they feel the inscription [unclear] so that they belong to something or something like that?
Sahaja Yogi: Do they register?
Swiss translator: Do they register for some organisation?
Shri Mataji: We don’t have any registration, no organisation, we don’t have any list of such people.
Swiss translator: I think it’s important, Shri Mataji, that you –
Shri Mataji: I’ll explain to him in a different way and then he’ll understand. I’ll tell him, you see, that what so far has been, the masculine development of consciousness has been there all outward. Extroverted. Like a tree grows outside. And now if you notice there is a big feminine movement, in the wrong direction but there is a feminine movement. Because they are just rebelling, they are becoming like men only, they are just rebelling. But the masculine and feminine poles are two different axis they have. They understood [? in the] real perspective is to understand today’s problem. So the rebellion is like a pendulum, it moves from one to the other. But the movement of consciousness is in awareness, or we can call it in – [the] evolutionary process is spiral, it moves at a higher level, always going higher and higher.
Now the time has come for the nourishment of the womb, nourishment by the womb, nourishment by the Mother Earth. So the consciousness has to now move towards the nourishment. So those who are coming to us now in Sahaja Yoga actually get their nourishment through the power of the Kundalini, which represents the womb. It represents the Mother Earth within us, the Mother Earth within us. So the whole preparation is made already – masculine – and now the nourishment is needed. And that is the job of Sahaja Yoga today, in the modern times. So when the Kundalini raises, She nourishes your subtle centres, which are the source of all energies. And She also gets connected to the spirit, which is just a witness.
I will give him (the man speaking French) two analogies which will explain, but analogies should not be taken too far. Like you have very high-power wires on top of moving, you see. They are absolutely harmless, there is nothing in them, they are [? potential]. Unless and until they are earthed.
Sahaja Yogi (to Swiss translator): Think of electrical movements.
Shri Mataji: Very high-power wires.
Sahaja Yogi: High voltage electrical currents which do not potentiate until they are earthed.
Shri Mataji: They are earthed, you see. They have to be connected. So they are zero. And like we can say a zero. Zero has no power until it is put with some number. In the same way our spirit is just a witness, it has no power until it is connected through the Kundalini. That is how the spirit starts manifesting and first time we start feeling this all-pervading power. This power exists because this is the power that transforms so many things, nourishes, but we have never felt it before. [unclear] power we can call it. So you start feeling this subtle power, first time. And with little knowledge you can manoeuvre it, you know how to handle it. That’s how it works out. That’s how your physical being gets cured, your mental being gets cured, your spiritual being gets completely blissful and peaceful.
Swiss translator: He (man speaking French) wants to know how we learn all that.
Shri Mataji: You don’t have to learn it, it is all within you. Only thing, it is to be ignited like a candle can be enlightened by another lighted candle. It is very simple. You are already ready. Supposing I have an enlightened light, I can enlighten you. Once you are enlightened you can enlighten others.
Swiss translator: And he asks, all the people in the world have this light in themselves that one can light? There is no exception?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Exception, if [? they/there] are human beings. But if they are very [unclear]. The possibility is in everyone. But some people require more effort, more working out because of certain problems on the physical side, emotional side.
Sahaja Yogi (to Swiss translator): But he says that everyone has this light within them, but the point that must be made is that somebody has to enlighten that light.
Shri Mataji: Enlighten the light. The potential is there, yet not enlightened.
Swiss translator: [Are] there some writings about You? He wrote that there is a book about you.
Shri Mataji: Yes there is. But we don’t give this big book to someone who has not yet got realisation. But we have a small book, which is before realisation. Because it shocks people sometimes to know the truth. For example if you say that Mohammed Sahib was the same as Nanak Sahib. Guru Nanak and Mohammed the same. Muslims [unclear] they are the owners of Mohammed Sahib. They will [be] very angry and shocked. But this can be proved, whatever we say can be proved after realisation.
Swiss translator: Shri Mataji, he (man speaking French) asks – he excuses himself for [his] ignorance and he says, may also the Catholic and the other people come in this unique way? Is there a complementarity, a total complementarity?
Shri Mataji: Yes, absolutely. You see, Jews who never believed in Christ now worship him because they know He is the Son of God because we can prove it. The movement of Kundalini. The Catholics find a new meaning, a deeper meaning which is reality. Actually this is baptism because you get the cool breeze out of your head here, [unclear]. So this is the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost.
Swiss translator: He would ask, how do you live? Do you live like everybody, as an average person?
Shri Mataji: I really don’t know how – I don’t need any comfort or anything, I can sleep anywhere, though by chance I am born in a very rich family, my husband is quite wealthy. And you can say my house is really – people say is very [unclear] or whatever it is. But to me it makes no difference if you make me sleep even on the grass, I can sleep well. To my body I don’t understand comfort.
Swiss translator: He asks whether your life, not only the comfort but also, is it only a life of meditation? I think he asked two questions. First is your life only meditation or is it also very – in the society? And also about us, is it a life where we are engaged in the society or if we are only meditating?
Shri Mataji: Exclusively. It is a wrong idea we have about meditation. Actually I am in meditation all the time, in the sense I am one with my spirit. But I am very dynamic, a very dynamic person and I’m a very good housewife, and have another very busy life because my husband is a very responsible man and I have to attend to parties and dinners and receptions, everything. But I am never tired about it. I have two daughters, three grandchildren. So all of them are also my children here, their lives are also dynamic. You don’t have to give up anything, you become something.
Sahaja Yogi: Actually I’m in meditation all the time.
Shri Mataji: It’s too much I have said, [unclear]. But he is following me you see, he is following me [unclear]. He is following me.
Sahaja Yogi (understanding what the man speaking French was going to ask): Do we eat normally? We eat absolutely normal food, no extremes, no vegetarianism.
Swiss translator: But he asks whether we drink alcohol.
Shri Mataji: No, that we give up automatically because it goes against your awareness. Automatically, we don’t force. Smoking and all that, automatically. We don’t force anyone. Because it is against awareness. Whatever you see is good for your health, for example supposing some people come to Me who have liver trouble, then they have to have a little diet. Before they are settled down with their liver, sometimes. You have to be a – you become a wise, sensible, discreet personality. And you understand that you are now a light and you have to give the light, so the lamp has to be kept alright. And the light has to be given, nothing to be taken, and there is no ego about it because you are light.
Swiss translator: He asks whether we feel missionary.
Shri Mataji: Oh. Missionary is a very artificial word. They have no mission at all. Because they brand people as Christians, this that, and just organise them in clubs. See, you have to be born again, Christ has said. There is an actualisation, [it] is a living process. Mission of Love, I should say, [unclear] because we can’t (? have/help) love in people.
Swiss translator (translating man speaking French): Are you optimistic about the future of mankind and humanity?
Shri Mataji: [unclear] see the Creator is not going to allow this creation to be destroyed. And He is so gracious that you can’t believe it. He is using all His [? Vidya] to communicate through the unconscious.
Swiss translator: Because, as he (man speaking French) said at the beginning of this conversation, there are still many people who are only looking for money and power, are still in this world.
Shri Mataji: Maybe but these people are [of the] fashionable type. You see, if Sahaja Yoga becomes sort of a fashion then they will come to Sahaja Yoga ultimately because of their nature. If many people are there then they will just follow it, I hope so. And if they are honest then they will face it and they won’t be able to deny it. And because the life of other people who are Sahaja Yogis improves also materially. For example a Sahaja Yogini doesn’t have to go to a beauty parlour, she gets a good skin automatically. They don’t have to go to a psychologist, to a doctor. They don’t have to waste running after holidays because they enjoy themselves all the time. But actually materially they are helped. Materially.
Swiss translator (translating man speaking French): It is a beautiful confusion.
Shri Mataji: It is.
Swiss translator: He will come to the conference.
Shri Mataji: That’s good. He looks a seeker. [unclear]
Swiss translator: He asks whether the people who are usually coming to the conference are from all the levels, all the castes and so on or is it [a] special category of people, intellectual or [unclear]?
Shri Mataji: Now this is Geneva, is here. And from Geneva to now we have a little – Christopher what is this age, one year?
Sahaja Yogi: Four.
Shri Mataji: Four months. We have a diplomat and we have a doctor and we have [an] architect. We have servants, we have every kind, domestic – everything.
Swiss translator: He asks whether there are many people in the world who are adepts of – and that you are coming for the fifth time now?
Shri Mataji: To Geneva? The Swiss are the best people I think.
Sahaja Yogi (to Swiss translator): He is asking “There are many around the world?” We have this facility of being realised and being [unclear]. Adepts. He uses the word adepts. Are they able to do this, giving realisation to others, are there lots of people?
Shri Mataji: Oh, there are lots of Sahaja Yogis. Yes, yes, lots of them. Yes, lots of them, lots of them. Say we – say, in Switzerland how many [do] we have now, about sixty?
Swiss translator: A little bit more, a little bit [unclear].
Shri Mataji: About seventy we have now in Switzerland. In Australia we might be having –
Sahaja Yogi: Two or three hundred.
Shri Mataji: Three hundred. In England we have about a thousand. In Austria we have about seventy-five. Or about eighty. In France – oh, France is quite a lot. About three hundred.
(Swiss translator explains something to man speaking French.)
Shri Mataji: [unclear] You tell him that as basically this is the question of taking nourishment, you see. So the hands, these all have got a [unclear]. And through our hands we can receive the nourishment because these represent the different subtle centres, you see. So we can suck in the nourishment though our hands. And Mohammed Sahib has said that “At the time of Resurrection your hands will speak.”
You start feeling a little bit the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost in your hands. And then it starts emitting through you. From me at least you see, because I am slightly more – more of it, you get it from me. And then if you go to others you pass on, it just goes into theirs. And as you start improving on it then you become really an absolute master, you become your own guru. You become a master. When you drop out all your habits, everything, you become just a master, not slave of anything whatsoever.
Swiss translator: He (man speaking French) asks whether the media, according to the articles he read, was very positive about you.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Swiss translator: But is there all over the world – the radio and the television and newspapers are always positive or?
Shri Mataji: Not necessarily. It’s luck. Because when I went to Australia you see, there was a lady who was down with some very serious brain haemorrhage, in a coma you see. And doctors feared about her, they said she is going to die. And she was a friend of a journal. And they put My photograph under her pillow and she came to normal sense. And that she [unclear].
Now in India, [? even] the president of India has cancer. So naturally, you see, these things have reactions. By chance. Just by chance. So, you see if such things work out then it does help but it is rather difficult to get into the media.