What is love? 1983-10-07
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
7 October 1983
What Is Love?
Public Program
Toronto (Canada)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) - Reviewed
Public Program Day, Toronto, Canada, October 7th, 1983
M.C.: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome all of you to this most auspicious program that is being held for the first time in university.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi words...] I cannot...
M.C.: You have been seeking...
Shri Mataji: Something wrong. Can’t hear.
INTRODUCTION BY MC: You have been seeking in the wild for quite some time.
Here, I have introduced Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi-ji, who is a mother, a housewife and a grandmother in an ideal way that is thought of in our Indian society. But the speciality is that She teaches all of us what is extra special within us. It is a great Divine creation that is within ourselves. How to feel that? How to enjoy that? How to learn that? From ourselves. That mastery Shri Mataji offers us time and [?]. If I have to narrate you a few experiences, well, 12 years back when Shri Mataji started teaching this subject, I was a senior manager in one of the public undertakings in India. And I was not happy with the management and the working etc.
And when I approached Shri Mataji and I started learning this yoga. One day, Shri Mataji tells, why don’t you go into your own business of interior decoration and I laughed. As an executive in marketing, I never felt that what is wood? What are the qualities of timber? And Shri Mataji decide I should go into an interior decoration of Oriental style. I never knew what was Oriental style. And when I learned through this same yoga chakra, through the same knowledge that flows within ourselves. All the varieties, all the creativities, they started flowing slowly and strongly. And too my surprise, I was just stunned to the creativity that flows through me. I decorated a passenger ship with the capacity of 850 passengers travelling [?]. Right from scratch to [?]. I mean I was simply stunned how the miracle work it happens. But Shri Mataji always tells us you should see the miracle of the Divine which happens day to day within ourselves. We see so beautiful things. We appreciate the art. Where that eyesight comes from, that’s also through an eye. That’s a Divine miracle. Animals never feel the sense of art. We eat beautiful food. We taste it. We enjoy it.
Where the enjoyment comes from? The enjoyment comes from within and that enjoyment part that the Divine has given to us is just free, is just nature human [?]. We never thought of. We have the science, in the country in United States but still we have that these issues like that particular chemical that works out in that body and the food is digested but how easily we never think how to help ourselves we never think that a lady who gives birth to a child she loves the child so immensely this is enough come from the same person husband those have brothers and sisters have parents in a different way where this understanding comes from all this is innate built in one search over which the matter details she’s going to introduce to you in just once a tactic which is absolutely our attention has never been on ourselves our search has been hallways outside if I do something like a big job but after having that big job I think well I was not but maybe if I had a lot of money I’d be very happy I think but when I see people with lot of money and unhappiness continuously then a student things that you should take a bit bigger maybe we should think of near to one of the universities that it would be feeling very happy when he gets so outside for the searchers and all the scriptures in the world they say the divinity has to be searched on within the divinity is within ourselves which is showing the science Mataji’s not like anybody’s guru not like any other child but a member from our own family to receive all of you here just one more in the family sahaja Yoga is just like that there is a power within us the energy within us that has that must manifest and that managers without a name that is what it happened to she would time that happened to the greatest sins all over and that is going to happen to every human so the same energy when it rises it is such a joy it is just like this I have enjoyed this unless you taste it there is no meaning.
Again I have to repeat the all the powers have been in ourselves and it is my introduction to myself it is you have to explore your own forces of energy the richness of the richness of your Spirit which enlightens when the energy digesting the same Spirit when it enlightens that Spirit gives you the joy that Spirit teaches you who you are how you should enjoy educator how you should enjoy your own living how much about you value and they know they will get the meaning of all the scriptures all the religions all the totality all the meaningfulness and all the happiness but mind you it is me and myself and that’s what it is you and yourself the seeking has to be within Shri Mataji is going to show you some simple techniques which are as helpful as our day-to-day life we don’t think when we breathe we don’t plan too much what we are going to have for our breakfast tomorrow morning we don’t know [Music] it is a simple but the simplest things in the world for a conditioned mind they are difficult if a human instrument is too much conditioned if it is too much this sir if it is too much damage well you have to control yourself and you must have a little more patience and your own divinity is going to work it.
Here, in Toronto, there is a small group who saw Shri Mataji last alien language they took to Sahaja Yoga very seriously they worked it out for themselves and it is which has invited the Shri Mataji this year and that is why she’s misogynist before you it is my vein it is my knowledge it is my day-to-day living which has transformed me it is that transformation that makes me understand who she is not again so by only life by outward things when I might say schemata ji is a wife of an Indian diplomat who is unanimously elected three times on a United Nations body known as inter-governmental maritime consultative organization her husband is posted in England for the last more than 10 years and she is a very happily married person but there is a great earth that the seekers of the world must get what they are aspiring for and that is so simple so simple but at the same time it is absolutely gracious it is a heavenly gift it is a heavenly gift how to receive that gift how to feel it that within ourselves and how to enjoy that, that you are going to learn within next 2-3 days over here and with this little introduction.
I am going to tell you that please come again come tomorrow maybe you can bring your friends and relationships maybe, maybe you can bring many more of your friends disadvantaged on Monday even most possibly I hope or on Tuesday morning she mothered is live in Toronto till then you must take this opportunity of reading for this you cannot pay anything because just as somebody loves you, you don’t count it in terms of products you can’t count everything in terms of so-called this money if you’re you think you can pay but that you can pay for the sunlight have you ever thought that you can pay something for the moonlight have you ever thought those miracles that take place in your day-to-day life that you digest your food I presume that it is because of the divinity within ourselves do you pay for that anything similarly you can’t pay for Sahaja Yoga it’s the same divine who has created you it is you have to feel it so the more you humble down to yourself to your carts please [Music] after these three days programs over here our friends here in Toronto they are running a small Center so they will teach you further come to Medicaid because whatever you are going to go and learn the earning is from you and from your own Kundalini so the burning process in the continuum and they are going to help you out with this little introduction I would request Madeline to bless you and to talk to you the essence of Sahaja Yoga as it grows within you how it grows within you this subject which is going to talk today is going to be continued tomorrow and there forever thank you very much and I wish you all the luck!
SHRI MATAJI 'S SPEECH [starts at 17:05]
I bow to all the seekers of Truth.
We have heard about Truth many a times that people have said that God is love and God is truth. If that is so, then love has to be the truth. And what is love? The idea of love that we have is relative. It’s not the absolute love we know of. Even now when I travel in the West, I find it impossible sometimes to talk to people because they cannot think that there could be someone who is interested in the universal problem, in the problem of the whole world, which is confronting all of us.
Now the problem of today, everywhere, all over the world is only very simple, can be brought to one little point, can be said that there is a moral crisis, complete moral crisis in the whole world. What is the reason for this kind of a crisis? We should go into the causes. The cause of this crisis is that we have lost our sustenance.
You know that in us there are peptones which are excreted through the pancreas. These peptones have a spiral quality. That means they are build up spirally, just like, just like, springs. And the springs have the capacity to sustain. That quality of springiness makes that. So what has happened with us is that we have become linear. That sustenance within us to rise above has been lost because of something, something that has gone wrong within us. So that quality which gives us the sustenance as the springs, is being lost and that is why there is this problem of moral crisis.
Now, it is a very big mistake that human beings thought by human mental projection they will be able to solve the problem. They thought that if they project their mental projection, they’ll be able to affect the society and the people but to my amazement, I’ve seen, despite the fact whatever type of governments they have got, whatever type of societies they have created, whatever type of intellectualism they have created, they are themselves shocked the way the things are. People are not less selfish; they are not less greedy. The lust and the greed have filled their consciousness completely. They cannot understand how is it when we have changed the whole atmosphere, we think so, when we have done so much good, we have advanced so much, why is it that we are at a break where people are shocked even to look at the future, they think that the whole universe is going to collapse.
Moreover, it is feared that there may not be any existence anymore left to the human race on this earth. Why is it that we have gone to this limit of our own destruction? What we have got for our progeny is nothing but a picture of complete destruction.
The thing is, that this linear movement of our mental projection, we thought that by mental projections we’ll solve the problem and it’s just moving in one line. And whatever moves in one line falls off, because it has no sustenance- sustenance. But what we have to do is to move spirally. And when our consciousness will move spirally, only then we can achieve our evolutionary state.
Our evolution has stopped at a point now when we are really going in a linear way towards destruction, whatever may be your government, whatever may be the style of your government, whatever may be your thinking and intellectualisms. What you have to do is to build up a sustenance within you, by which you rise higher, jump onto a higher level of awareness, a higher level of consciousness, which will give you that understanding of each other. So, what will happen when you become that?
First of all, there is already the awareness that we are the part and parcel of the whole. I’ve seen people who are forced to give under regimes where you have to show but once they get out of that, you see that they don’t want to share, they’re extremely selfish people, extremely greedy while there are people who said if you have freedom, they have gone on to abandonment. They have no sustenance within themselves, the wisdom to bare the freedom or to deny the freedom. So, there is something definitely wrong in the way we have gone towards our consciousness.
Now this human consciousness has to achieve a higher consciousness and that high consciousness is where you feel that you are really, actually, a part and parcel of the whole. You have to become part and parcel of the whole. That is the macrocosm has to become microcosm. People are talking about it. They are saying about it. Since long they have been saying that you have to become that, but how to become?
Now we start our big organizations, big things, world government we talk off, we should have United Nations, all these things we have done. But I have known now, myself very closely connected with it, that no one in those who are representing the nations, all united nations, have reached that state where they are actually, collectively conscious.
The consciousness itself which you feel on the central nervous system, which you have achieved, through your ascent, through your evolution, itself doesn’t feel that another person is a part and parcel of the whole. You do not feel it on your central nervous system unless and until this actually happen within you, whatever you may change the outside, the inside cannot be changed. So, we come to a point that we need a transformation within ourselves. Of course, this is evolutionary and to say that, you can pay for it or you can put for some effort and all that, is absolutely absurd. It’s absurd! Because you have become a human being without paying anything for it. You have become so great without putting any effort for it.
So, I cannot understand how people believe when people tell them that, “You pay us money and we will give you your higher”. It is not possible! But it is so difficult for people to understand because in the West I think people are very naïve and they have too much money. So, they think we must spend it somewhere, there’s a choice, “Let us pay for this kind of a thing for our transformation”.
And that is how some people have been asking me very great questions about the fake gurus who have come, or the cults that have started and how is it I have to justify. I said I never justified. On the contrary, ten years back, I came to America and told them that, “This is all fake”. What has to happen is in your consciousness, which you cannot pay. Christ has said, “You are to be born again”. But that doesn’t mean that somebody puts your hand on your head and say, “You are born again”. Or somebody says, self-certified, “I am born again".
There’s something that has to happen within you by which you must get some powers within yourself.
Why this problem has come? Which I have realized when I read a book about Jung and he described what is their idea about consciousness. Of course, Jung was a Realized soul. No doubt. And he jumped on the stage, all right. But he didn’t have the full idea of how we jump on the stage. And when he described about the consciousness, I thought he put forward a very big mixed bag about it. And the mixed bag was like this: he said that there is unconscious. On top of the unconscious, he said, there’s something that can become conscious. On top of that, he said the subconscious. On top of that, he said, is the consciousness. And on top of that, is the ego. Now, it’s really a bag like structure.
You must know that if the Creator has created us, he must have seen to us that we are properly organized within. If he is an organiser, he must have done that. The way he has organized this Earth, Mother Earth and the way everything is working out so smoothly. The way we get our season, the way a mango tree gives you just the mango and Canadian will produce a child that suits like a Canadian. All these sorting out things are done on such minute levels, such a Creator or such an agent must be wise enough to create something special within us to have our ascent. So, this kind of a bag [inaudible], when it approaches perhaps India, people thought this was a very good idea. Because if the unconscious is below the subconscious, it’s a very good idea to take them to the subconscious. And by taking them to the subconscious, we can easily lure them to their own ways and can entice them.
Now just see this is how we are organized within ourselves. Now this is not the knowledge of today, is the knowledge of 16,000 years in our country and it happened in India because of the climate of India itself is such that you can live under s tree. You don’t have to take 15 minutes to get out of your house. It’s very simple. The Nature is so kind and you can live with fruits there. And the people who were living in a simple way thought that, “Why are we here? What is the purpose of our life?” And they became meditative. And when they became meditative, they started finding out about what is the reason? Why we are here and why some people are saintly and others are not. What is the difference? Why the saintly people share love and nourish others and why the rest of the people are not like that? And they found out the reason within themselves, is that, that we have got the Spirit in our heart. The Spirit is the reflection of God Almighty, which is the collective conscious being within us, but which is just a witness. It is just a witness. It’s witnessing all what we are doing.
And this power is the Kundalini here which is placed in the triangular bone, in three-and-a-half coil. And this power can get awakened and passes through these different subtle centres, reaches its top point and pierces through this and you become collectively conscious because the seat of the Spirit is there. Though the Spirit exists here, but this - I think you know, that it bounces too much if I speak on the loudspeaker, is better. You are hearing me better now?
So, this enters into this new awareness where you become collectively conscious. And then you become later on conscious of the cosmic, or cosmically conscious, you can say.
Now what happens is, the mistake was that this is the subconscious on the left-hand side. And this is the supra consciousness structure on the right-hand side. And the path in between is kept free for you to move, like this. Like the left and right meeting and you’ve got the central path all open here. So that, this Kundalini, which is the true desire, the pure desire you can call. The desire, once it’s manifested, doesn’t want any other desires to be manifested. Like other desires are not satiable in general, as the, you know the economic laws are, that in general the desires are not satiable. So, this particular desire that we have to be one with the Divine is just resting there and it is- that’s why I call as the sleeping Kundalini. Now this rises through this, passes through this and gives you that super-consciousness. While on the left-hand side if you move, then you have got subconscious and beyond that, is the collective subconscious.
Now the collective subconscious is a very dangerous area where people should not enter into. But they do. For example, all such diseases like your Aids or cancer or your other diseases which are incurable, multiple sclerosis and all that, come from the left side, from the collective subconscious. Even the doctors now, I saw on television, show of the doctors who have reached a certain stage of understanding say that all these diseases are triggered by some proteins- they named them as protein 52 and 58 because we can only name them - come from the area which is built in within us since our creation. And that is now, he has shown that something comes from there which triggers the vulnerable position of cancer when a person is vulnerable. And when is he vulnerable? When he’s too much on the extremes.
That’s why in all the religions, it is said, “You have to be in moderation.” Don’t go to the extremes, so you keep to the central path. If you go to the extremes, see now here, if you go to the extremes, the left or the right pulled out, and what happens to you is that you lose your connection with the whole. And that’s how you become on your own. Once you become on your own, you become malignant.
It is also in a society, when people start act on their own, “What’s wrong?” They can become malignant, in the sense that in anyone they touch, the same person can be become very ego oriented. He will go on to another ego trip and there will be gimmick of ego trips going on and they will be revolving in that whole jugular of ego. People will be producing pictures and images of egoistical life and other people will be accepting that kind of a life and the whole thing will be a waste throughout.
Like I went to America, I was surprised, they have a handle for every door in a different way. Every bathroom is to be asked how to open the thing. I mean there is no need to waste so much energy in choosing these utility things, you see. If they are to be shared. If they are to be absolute exclusive, then you go ahead. But if they are to be shared, then one must know there is no need to waste so much energy in finding out this kind of a knob and that kind of knob. So, we waste so much of our energy in creating wants for a person. And once we start doing it, there’s not end to this that the whole society can start becoming playing the game of ego. This ego is here, I show you. This comes from the other side which is the, which is the power of our creativity.
As Mr. Modi has told me that he was an Executive in an organization and had exhausted his second center, this one [Swadisthan]. And when he came to me, he was so fed up. He said, “Now, I feel absolutely helpless and I don’t want to have anything to do with these people. You have to really compete, and strive and do all kinds of things that I’m fed-up”. So, I told him, “All right, you should try something of your own”.
Now, if this centre can be awakened, one can become tremendously, tremendously creative. And the creativity is managed by this, which has a universal, universal support behind it. Because when the Kundalini rises, she touches that universal point and the light of the universality flows into your creativity and you create tremendously. Just like, I would say, if you have seen the Sistine Chapel of Michelangelo. Because Michelangelo was a Realized soul, not only but so many Realized souls were born on this earth who created art pieces which are of universality. Let any time come in, they will be regarded as artists. But those which are temporary just like mushrooms, they come up and disappear. But art, that is eternal, comes to a person whose centre, this centre, is enlightened by the Kundalini.
Now we have other centres here. This is the subtle centre of our seeking. This is a very important centre that we have. First people, today one gentleman came to interview me and I was amazed. He wants to interview for a very big newspaper and he said that,” I would like to seek a man who will give me diamonds”. I said, “For that you should go not to a saint but you should go in the market to get it, you can get in the market. Why go to a saint? And if anybody is giving you diamonds, then you must know that he’s not a saint. Because saint doesn’t give you a diamond, but he gives you those diamonds that sparkle your consciousness”.
So, now the first centre is one of the most important centres, which we have neglected. It’s the center of our innocence, innocence. Many children, for example, this child is born Realized, these children are born Realized children. And how will you make them? You cannot make them but they are. Because if you can have the Realization, if you can get your Realization and if you can feel the vibrations in your hands, this power will tell you whether a person is Realized or not. Because you become collectively conscious, you start feeling their centres.
[To a Sahaja Yogi] You want me to speak on that.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, they can’t here you, Madam.
Shri Mataji: They are not getting it?
Sahaja Yogi: No.
Shri Mataji: Is it?
Lady audience: Yes, they can’t hear you.
Shri Mataji: Where you are? Because it bounces very much. This is a very big room. All right, let’s see.
So, this center which is very important is the center of innocence, and that is within us. And this Center, if it is neglected, we really reduce most of our sustenance part. If innocence is attacked, then our sustenance is lost. This is the most important thing that we have, the greatest property within us is the innocence. But all effort is made by all so called advancements we are doing, is to destroy this innocence. And once you start destroying this innocence, a person becomes immune. He doesn’t feel. He loses his sensitivity even to Divinity and to goodness. And that time, when he starts his seeking because he has still his chakra intact by seeking, by which he seeks. He seeks first in money, then he seeks in power, he seeks in possessions. Ultimately, he seeks himself beyond.
He thinks all these things have no satisfaction, so far. Sometimes, he seeks in freedom and after freedom, he thinks he hasn’t got the full freedom from within. He’s still a slave to so many things. He can’t live with this or that. And when these things happen, one has to understand that this seeking makes you a great seeker. And this is a special category of people, which you see these days all over. Of course, I must say that when people realized that there is a big market for the seekers, they came down and they have made money out of it, which is a sad thing. But I think you are naive and you do not understand what they are up to. One must know that you cannot pay for it.
The one who lives on your money and tribes on your money is a parasite. He cannot be a guru. He cannot be a master. Because he lives on your money. He runs his family on your money. He runs his household on your money. He buys Rolls Royce. He buys all these things. What is a Rolls Royce for a saint? After all, to a saint it does not matter whether you live on the road or you lived on a house or a palace. It makes no difference to such a person.
And that is what one should understand that a person who is a seeker, will not demand for money or demand for anything. He is beyond, above all things. If he is just a slave of your money, it is better not to call such a person your guru. And if you are still within such a guru, it is impossible, this Kundalini won’t rise. It will refuse to rise and you cannot get your Realization.
There are many people who come to me and say, “Mother why is it we did not get Realization?” Kundalini rises in a split of a second. And luckily now, it has happened in such a way that the Kundalini rises in people and then it gives them the light, the light to see. First it gives you the light. There is no cleansing needed, there is nothing needed, except that you get your Realization first. You must get the light, little bit in you, so that you start seeing yourself your own problems, seeing yourself your own chakras because you can feel them on your fingertips. You can see them within yourself and then it is easy to cure.
So today’s modern Sahaja Yoga is like this that: you first get your Realization. First get your ‘atma sakchat’. First know your Spirit. Once you have known your Spirit, then you can see for yourself what’s wrong with you. Then you can cleanse yourself. Then you can improve yourself. Then you can nourish yourself. And once you have done that, then you can help others. Without that, how can you help others?
But first of all, you have to have that light within you. This is the speciality, I can say, the uniqueness of Sahaja Yoga today. Sahaja Yoga is not a modern term, it’s an ancient term. It’s an ancient term and for the last 16 thousand years, we have heard about this that people got their Realization.
Christ has talked about it Mormons talked about it mama does more doctor he said at the time of resurrection your hands will speak. Nobody comes from Resurrectionist, our religion had never talked of Islam religion because they do not want to face, they don’t want to face it that there is going to be resurrection first and then they do sleep but they just want to take talk about the Doomsday. Because then we can frighten people about just to frighten people we want to talk about the dough sleep. But before the news make your resurrection has to take place and that is within you the power is within you which is just to get away.
Now the second point is how far is your seeking? How far you have gone with your seeking is very important because you are God of men, those who are seeking. As William Blake has said, “God of men will become prophets and they will have powers to make others prophets”. So, first you must become the prophets. This is the first thing one must understand.
But many people are naive and they do not understand that their seeking should lead them to become masters themselves! To know everything about it. They cannot walk in a dark bracket or in some mafia, sort of a secrecy. It has to be an open thing, known to all of you, absolutely logical, when you start feeling the vibrations of another person or of your own.
All the people who are Realized souls, will give the same judgment about the person who is trying to get Realization, that this is the center catching or that is the center catching. So, it is very simple to know, as Mr. Modi has told you, it’s extremely simple, because this expresses itself on your central nervous system. You feel it as a part and parcel of your being.
Now for example, today, I feel among you, there are two centres which are catching very badly on the whole. I would say the first one is Left [Vishudhi] because you people feel guilty. This is also a modern fashion to feel guilty. Or maybe, I don’t know why people feel guilty all the time. This is one thing is you feel guilty and secondly, this is the sign of people who talk too much aggressively. So, there are two types of people in this, who are, one is, who feels guilty and another who must be talking aggressively to people or preaching something or sitting on their heads and telling them something that is not actual.
So, the actualisation has to take place. Unless and until the actualization take place, we cannot prove the existence of God, we cannot prove the existence of any truth in the scriptures. We cannot prove. Unless and until you become that, how will you prove?
Today, you’ll be surprised, that in London, I have seen, many churches are sold out for pubs. Imagine! That’s the only utility left for them, to go into pubs. The reason is they should see the point, what Christ has said that, “You have to be born again”. And that is not some sort of an artificial, artificial certificate. It is an actualization which should work within you, which is your own, which is within you.
So, now you may ask, “Mother, what are you doing?” Now I am doing a very simple job, like if you have to light a candle, ready to be enlightened, if I am an enlightened light, I enlighten. And once you get your enlightenment, if you put your light in order, you can give enlightenment to others. And that’s how we are going to have this universal transformation of our evolutionary process. We are going to move spirally higher becoming collectively conscious.
For today, I think that should be all right, because, being first day, you may like to ask me questions. But there is no need to be aggressive with me. I am here to nourish you, to help you, and to guide you. Because one of the Los Angeles churches, they came with a Bible to hit me. I said, “At least, respect the church if not me! And they came with a Bible to hit me. I said, “This is the most fundamentalist [unsure] thing I ever seen”. And I was just laughing at them. Of course, they could move forward, I don’t know what happened to them. They were moving backwards and shouting and [inaudible]. So, you see, they feel I’m challenging their profession or whatever it is. But there is no profession of God. There’s no organization of God. You cannot organize God. God is what he is.
You have to just keep yourself open. This is a hypothesis, like a scientist you keep yourself open. Don’t have your preconceived ideas and conceptions about God, about reality. Then it works out. And once it works out, you see for yourself what it is. And you’ll be amazed how it works out, how it helps you.
So, I would like to have some questions from you for today. And later on, we can, tomorrow and day after tomorrow, I will tell you in details all about these things.
May God bless you.
Shri Mataji [about the mike]: You see, it bombs too much.
Sahaja Yogi: You don’t want this one. You don’t want the microphone.
Shri Mataji: No, it’s all right. I can but I think this one is milder.
Sahaja Yogi: Ah this one. Now, ok.
Shri Mataji: The hall has acoustics like that. You see, the acoustics of the hall.
No questions?
Good, that’s wonderful. Tremendous. That means you would like to have the experience now, of your Self, which is a very simple thing to be done.
Gavin: There’s one question.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Gavin: Just speak it out.
Shri Mataji: Is this something private?
Seeker: No. I was not sure [unclear].
Shri Mataji: Is it something private question?
Seeker: No. It’s all right.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Seeker: Most systems of yoga seem to exercise purification before enlightenment. And if I understood correctly, you kept saying that there should be enlightenment first. [Unclear] T
Shri Mataji: What he says.
Gavin: Well, your system your system contrary to what he says, seems to say, that you have to have the enlightenment first. That spark has to be-
Shri Mataji: That’s better. That’s what I thought: it’s better to give enlightenment first and let them clear themselves. Because it was the system followed thousands of years back, in our country, when it was to be given to one or two persons only. But now we have to have en-mass Realization and that is the speciality of Sahaja Yoga that without going into all the cleansing, you just get your light and you yourself clean.
It’s not contrary; it’s supplementary, we can say, or at a higher idea that it is very much working. I have seen that it works wonders because if you have to give to thousands of people, it’s impossible. This was practiced at the time when people had a different system of, also, of life. Like they were divided into Brahmacharya and all those things and the brahmacharis had to live with their guru. Out of them, few were selected. And it was a very beginning of the thing. Now the blossom time has come. So many people have already done it. You do not know what you have done in previous lives! It might be you have already cleansed yourself in previous lives quite a lot. And if you are there and if it is about, it works out.
Not I would guarantee for everyone. I don’t say that it will work out with everyone. Say, Hitler comes and ask for Realization, I can’t do it. But to a great extent, many people get it. So, why not have it?
Seeker: Isn’t that delicate if you are [inaudible] and if you have this divine energy in you, that you might broke the circle. Ans something-
Shri Mataji: What it is?
Gavin: Well, he’s saying, is there not a danger –
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. Not at all, she’s your mother. Kundalini is your mother. You see, these things, I was myself amazed when I read about this Kundalini being dangerous and all that. How can she be? She’s your mother. She’s the one who is waiting to give you this. There’s no danger at all. I’ve given now - I don’t know - to thousands of people. Nobody has suffered at all. On the contrary, everybody has improved. How can it be? She’s your mother. Are you an Indian? Then you understand what mother is. She cannot be dangerous, she cannot be dangerous.
This is a problem, you see. Now these people, the people who were interested in making money out of it, have given very funny ideas just to make people frightened. Because they knew, when they will try all these tricks, people will suffer. So, they prepared them. But they said, “If you are willing to go through it, all right”.
And then people said, challenge it, they said, “All right, we’ll try to go”. But there’s nothing like that. I have not seen anybody suffering.
May God bless you.
Gavin: Yes. This lady, she is Mataji, this lady.
Shri Mataji: Which one? Yes.
Seeker lady: Yes, a few years ago, I heard Gopi Krishna.
Shri Mataji: That is the thing. He is not the one who gives Realisation to anyone. That’s one of them. He is just one of them. There are so many like that.
Seeker lady: Yes, one of his statements was that he was speaking of his experience and he said he was meditating for over twelve or fifteen years to get Self-realisation. And he was determined to get it and he said he nearly reached insanity.
Shri Mataji: Yes, one would become insane. You see what happens-
Seeker lady: I would like to ask you how come that when you put the effort in, for fifteen years, or twelve,
Shri Mataji: I’ll tell you what happens, I’ll tell you. Here I will show you. It can happen to any one of us. You see, what happens now, that you see, I told you the left side and the right side that we have, you see. So, our sympathetic nervous system can take us to left or the right.
Supposing, I mean you want to run, all right? And must use sympathetic [unsure]. If you want to run, then you use sympathetic nervous system, means what happens that it helps you to attend to your emergencies. Now but when you have stopped running, then heart comes to its normal speed through parasympathetic, all right? Now the sympathetic we use, when we put an emergency or exertion of anything like that. So, what happens when you assert emergency too much upon yourself, you go like that, mad, what happens you move to the left or to the right. And once you go more left or to the right, you have all these experiences. Like if you move to the right, you may start seeing some colours and something. Seeing is not being! If you see something, if I see the light, I’m not the light.
Then you start getting all experiences. Sometimes, you feel your body is getting out of it and all sorts of these experiences come in. And actually, what is there is a spirit, sits on you, which possesses you. Actually, Hitler used Lama’s methods of supraconscious to entice people and give them ideas.
Then on the left-hand side, the same: there are spirits sitting, which can be used. We call it as preta-vidya, smashana-vidya, in the Indian language. And we know all this! So, what happens, if you start asserting yourself too much and all that, you might be load away by one of the spirits on the left-hand side. And once it happens, you can get mad, no doubt! Because a spirit comes to you. But somebody- that’s why it’s said, ‘the one who is authorized’ not by any college university or anything but by the Divine- has to raise Kundalini. And that is what it is. That anybody who is not enlightened should not try these tricks. It’s like somebody putting your finger into the- say- a switch and says that, “Now I got a shock from electricity”. But it never shocks you. Actually, it is something else that happens, that you go into a sympathetic nervous system, and you become mad! So, if you try yourself, you can become mad, no doubt. You can become mad, no doubt.
Somebody who knows should do it. Supposing you get a car and you drive yourself - if you don’t know how to drive, you are sure to get into accident, isn't it? You have to know.
And such people should not write books. But actually, they write because they get money and they have, they want to write, your see. Just the great thing about them is they just want to write that. Until when we read it, we are shocked at them, that it’s true. That’s not the real experience. The real experience we know is of baptism, that the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost must be felt here, on your head. Like a air conditioner, your head should emit that.
That’s the thing written since long, you see. All these ideas have come from the last 60, 70 years in our country. These pseudo intellectuals, you see, you let something about the Western life and all that, wanted to have some sort of a thing, to lure you. That’s how they have got.
It’s not at all dangerous. Any other question please?
Gavin: Yes.
Seeker: I would like to know [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: What’s the question?
Gavin: What is the relationship between the raising of Kundalini and sexual relations?
Shri Mataji: No connection whatsoever.
Seeker: No what?
Shri Mataji: No connection. When you- the Kundalini is raised, you see, now Kundalini is placed higher. And the lower one is the one which manifests pelvic plexus, which looks after all our excretion inclusive of sex, you see? And the Kundalini is higher. And this is another mistake people do, that it has something to do with sex energy. Sex energy never played any part in our evolution, so far. And I don’t know why people pay so much attention to sex. And that’s why always people say that, “You have to become like a child”. You become like a child, means you become innocent.
When the Kundalini rises, this chakra, the lower chakra, becomes absolutely silent and witnesses the whole thing. Your innocence is awakened. It has nothing to do, this is absolutely a wrong idea. How can it be? On the contrary, Christ has said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes”. That eyes have to be innocent.
There should be no lust and greed in your eyes.
So you become innocent. Your innocence is legal when the kundalini rises. It has nothing to do with your sex. Sex becomes silent. That’s what Christ has said again, "You have to become like children to enter into the kingdom of God".
We Indians understand this very well because we cannot be lured with this idea. But I think Freud, Freud has started the joke and they have taken over, some of the Indians. But we had this in 6th century also. We had some people called Tantrikas who tried to take money from our kings and all that and they tried these tricks with them also. So, we have many things like that in our country. Because if the king has some weaknesses, people can exploit them. But basically, on the whole, Indians, if they are Indians know that the sanity of sex is very important if you have to become Self-realized, if you have to get your Atma sakshat.
But Sahaja Yoga is such a great thing today, that whatever you have done, you forget it. It is so forgiving. It just deals with the present as you are, it’s not bothered as to what you have done what you have being. It just deals with you as you are.
It deals with the present moment. So, you forget about the past and that’s why I requested you to forget that you are guilty or anything. Not to feel that you are guilty.
I think now we should have the experience. It’s very simple.
You have to help me only in one way, you have to take out your shoes because we have to use the Mother Earth for this experience. And she helps us a lot to suck our 'badhas' [bodies?]. Just take out your shoes to be more in contact with the Mother Earth.
[The Realization part looks like an automatic transcript]
Now as I told you, that these fingers are related to your chakras five six and seven. And these are sympathetic in these as the doctors also said. So, you have to put your hands like this towards me, comfortably on your laps. And you have just to close your eyes, just close your eyes. If there is anything uncomfortable on your waist or anything, then take it out because there should be nothing uncomfortable. You don’t have to feel guilty at all. Please, don’t feel guilty. You can say like this, "Mother, are not say we are not we wrote 350 first ever say that’s in the past of it now the network represents your power and desire.
So, you have put that left hand towards me without your desire to decide the right hand now the news has the power of your back right so please keep your eyes shut and I’ll tell you where to place the right time because we have to manage certain sentence normally in a New England minute I’ve seen that word spin spontaneously but I see people who are over there or whatever after we brought with you a few comments keep your eyes shut and just until Dexter Smith and sitting a very cheerful thought this is the greatest experience of all your life.
Now put your right hand on your heart and in the heart besides was better so you can address me actually method if you like if it is easy for you or you can call me mother make it easy and in your heart to ask the person in your mother am I the Spirit you have to become the Spirit that is the transformation that’s the compass we have to ask me a question whether Oh – pitiful silently within yourself sincerely as having all the thinking yourself don’t feel guilty at this point also I think [inaudible].
Now after this you leaned out your hand on the left-hand side of your stomach here is the center of the Primordial Master and left is only like you put it inside your protein possible on your stop on the left-hand side and press it pretty hard on that time eastern sector of your Primordial Master.
Because you are the Spirit, as you are the Spirit with all confidence you can say whithin: "I am my own master". That’s the best. If you think it is too much, then you can ask the question, "Mother am I my own master?" The question is to say to full confidence, "Mother, I am [unclear].
Now bring your hand down after saying 10 times on the stomach little dullness. This is the center where you know the technique of the divine laws. So, here you have to say whether I want to know the technique of divine laws or you can say whether I want to be the master of techniques of the divine laws. We are eat up on the door are on the network again at this point here sir we assert 12 times have to say these are all 12 times I’m saying because they are 12 petals in this Center you have to say mother I am the Spirit say it full party the artists were just here to say both people those people who feel guilty will hesitate and say how can I be a police mistake that don’t count the so-called sins of the past [Music] say a foot but you can say I have learned the spit that is all to take your attention to the Spirit when I came first to your Airport here first thing I thought of was a hot mess it metal part the heart has to open people are so frightened that part is often over the same whether I am District okay open your mouth everything is going to work to the heart [Music] now what design across uniform across your corner at this point you have to say I forgive him people say that it is very difficult to forgive but actually what do you do when you go further what do you you don’t wait for having yourself so say that mother now the darkening okay now on this point you have to say without doubt you have to say if I made a mistake please forgive me or not please forgive me put your hats professionalism but door thing you see at the back put your left eye closed put your left hand towards me and put your left hand towards me and with the right hand hold your backpack and just say that if I made any mistakes but don’t start you have to forgive everyone and when you forgive [Music] and now you put your hand on top of your head press your palms on top of you let’s hop and move it in a proper now at this point we’ll set up a few people so you have to say whether I want to buy the evaluation please give me realization you have to say the seventh time press it hard and move it clockwise and saving then we suffer a pretty hot now there is your hand and see if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your hand say they see for this change it’s very separate little high I think about five inches will be practical Hey okay students we also saw him must forgive that the centers to catch anything this one you want to forget now let’s do one thing more don’t think now just don’t think watch me without it just watch me without each other now you put your right hand towards me and left hand left and right are you thinking on the right hand not put your hands I think I’ve seen Jenny [Music]