Press Interview 1993-03-10
10 March 1993
Interview
Pune (India)
Talk Language: English, Hindi | Transcript (English) – Draft | Translation (Hindi to English) - NEEDED
1993-0310 Press Interview
Shri Mataji: See born with you is the right achieve is yoga. This is yoga is the union with the all-pervading, Divine love. So first you have to take it as a hypothesis. But keep your mind open. If it exists there is power. Which has come to us, this knowledge has come to us from ancient times [UNCLEAR], and it stays right from Markandeya, Adi Shankaracharya.
Shri Mataji: Then we had 13th-century Dnyaneshwara, who described [UNCLEAR], then we had Kabira, Janaka, Namadeva all of them all these saints sung the Sahaj Samadhi. It needs awareness, the Samadhi means where it is united with all-pervading power. This is our heritage. This cannot come from the British. They're still primitive as far as our spiritual life is concerned. It's so primitive that recently there was a big quarrel. Whether the women should become the priest or not. I mean in India women is regarded as Sakthi. So I mean as far as the spirituality is concerned they do not have much ideas. Now this is our heritage from ancient times it has been with us
Shri Mataji: We had three types of, you can say, Search by people. Three institutions, you can say or three types of people were searching the truth, perhaps our country is so good that we can live in a forest See in India if you have to go out of the house takes half an hour to dress up yourself we have to always fight with nature. Our country so congenial. The people could live in the forest they don't have to worry about all these outside things and so this knowledge was, you can say, One of three types.
Shri Mataji: First one by which they went into research of all the creation. Why this creation is done? I mean all the material side of it, so that's how we had. Since now all the idea about all the Antariksha means all the Heavenly bodies that we call as [UNCLEAR] all these things they knew. The astrology has come from India so they knew about the stars this is that everything
apart from that they wanted to make the matter to work out and hence he would do those of [UNCLEAR] all that Because they wanted to utilize the matter as science. Just like science, but this time was different Now people won't believe you saying we had vimanas and all that, but we have this worse. People won't believe, we are supposed to be most primitive people according to them, but we had all these sciences. Gradually built-up by people because they wanted to excite through Mantras, those matters, there are words like Anu, Renu. Renu is the molecule and Anu means Atom so we had all these words within us we knew all these things [UNCLEAR] in a way this what one side they use Vedas. By using the Vedas it is written that by reading this if you do not get [Vidita?] Vidita is the word Vidita means what? Vidita doesn't mean know through your brain it means you should know on your central nervous system. As you can see me and feel me in the same way you should be able to feel this all-pervading power, that is Vidita another word Bodha like Buddha. Bodha both is the same that you should know it on your central nervous system that is Bodha so this Vidha and Bodha. These things you should have if you are [UNCLEAR] you should get that other [UNCLEAR] So what was the thing is that scientists must be realised, souls? They should be evolved, souls? this was the thing
Shri Mataji: That came another type of worship they call it as left side worship is Bakthi. Because see people were not bother so much of Material things in India. So they were all searching. So they thought there is some higher power it works. We saw the saints and Saints told them that you make Bakthi. Bakthi a lot, by which you will keep your life [UNCLEAR]. These days Bakthi have no meaning because in the mouth to say something and do something else it's different in those days, they use to do Bakthi. By that, we used to remember what they're supposed to? What is should be the lifestyle? What is good for you? What is bad for you? so this Bakthi started.
Shri Mataji: But there was another third. This was called as [Nath?]. The first one was right side another was the left side, and this is in the centre. And you'll be surprised, that in this Maharastra of yours this [UNCLEAR] And [UNCLEAR] they believed in awakening that is residual power called Kundalini. By which they could transform themselves. So this knowledge was mostly in the Sanskrit language. The 6th century Adi Shankaracharya talked about it. But all in Sanskrit, the general public did not [know?] But also, there's a tradition at one guru will have only one disciple only one. Till the [crunch?] it. Now, this Guru Nanak came much later, but before that Janaka had only one disciple. His name was Nachiketa [UNCLEAR] then in the first-century Gyneswara tremendous personality at the age of 20 what he has written. I mean I tell you people who anything about spirituality really can get lost tremendously. Now, this Gyneswara asked permission from his Guru to his brother. You should allow me at least to write it. Gyaneshwari at least to write it. Tell them what it is in a way that I am not going to work it out. But let me tell the masses. So he wrote it Gyaneshwari the sixth chapter, six are there about Kundalini. But because you see [UNCLEAR] those who were in charge of religion? could not accept it because they do it mean to so they said the sixth chapter is [UNCLEAR] means to be abandon, not to be written. The whole thing went into another darkness. Because see in a moment fundamental said they need want something really come out they didn't know what to do. All right. Then came after 16th century was full of saints, not only Maharastra everywhere. Even in Punjab, you know that Guru Nanak, Kabira [UNCLEAR] so many all over at the time of Shivaji there was, all full of it and they were talked about Kundalini. They asked [UNCLEAR] How much time do you think Kundalini to rise?
So he said tatkSaNam that moment but there should be a person who is giver and person who take it that moment. So in that authority, he should not go to that modern writers about Kundalini these are our authorities. But as it is very few people got realisation. Kabira as throughout written about nothing. He says Surathi Kundalini called Surathi. can you imagine human beings how they are? Surathi is the name of. [Tabba?] In Bihar where he they called Shruti Tabbaa? She works in then Kabira not only Kabira [UNCLEAR] he went from Maharashtra to Punjab and Guru Nanak respected him and he has written. Such a big book in Punjabi [UNCLEAR] many of his poems are in [UNCLEAR] and also of [UNCLEAR] [UNCLEAR] Because Guru Nanak thought best is to collect all the verses from all these saints and group them together. Not to write anything else, but what they said so keep it pure And that's how Namadeva. Who try really learn the Punjabi language, and he wrote all these things in Punjabi. That is how it came, but they all have talked about right Guru Nanak said Sahaja samadhi. so that is how it came Sahaj samadhi lavo. We can say Sahaj means something spontaneous or easy I have told you the meaning of the word Sahaj But everything is even it is in the book. I've seen that People think by reading book you can get that sense
like this if you have a headache then I write down prescription take Anacin then you go on reading take Anacin to take Anacin then headache won't go it will be worse even It's like this so all these books you see has put limitations in [UNCLEAR] But I've seen people who go on reading akhand ramayan akhand geeta part they go on reading they go on akhand.. What they have said, they have not seen in it. Nanaka Said [UNCLEAR] why are you going to the jungle
He says it is in within you why are you going to Jungles? So all the Saints had to suffer in a way
because nobody understood See the bond has to be established nobody understood
So this Kundalini awakening. It's a residual power within us as you know we have three autonomous nervous systems within us.
Shri Mataji: One is left side Other is right side sympathetic and in the centre, we have parasympathetic nervous system And whatever we have achieved in our evolutionary process as a human being is Expressed by our central nervous system? Alright. Like, see if you want to take this dog to a dirty he can go we have a conception of beauty. We can see the beauty we can understand colours he does not So in evolutionary process whatever we have achieved is expressed in our central nervous system. Now it should be treated as a hypothesis, to begin with, to see because you should not take it for granted at all. Now, this Kundalini resides in the triangular bone which is called as the sacrum. That means that the greek knew it's a sacred bone. It's a Greek word sacred in Greek word is at the base of the spinal cord there is a bone triangular is lies with that And about that are six centres below that is one centre. below that is the centre which we call as Mooladhara. Because Kundalini is the Mool means a root because is the support of root. Mooladhara. Now in the medical terminology and understand that the centre of looks after on the physical side Our pelvic plexus which deals or which functions or all of our excretion including sex now this is to be understood very clearly that it is like below the Kundalini. So sex does not play any part in raising it's a very important point. Okay, people have perverted the whole thing. I don't know all kinds of things that they have done and they said that to the sex energy which has to increase. There's nothing like sex energy It's like any other energy. But only thing with that this Energy is used for a particular purpose of excretion or
communication of your desires or whatever it is, but it had nothing to do either ascending ascent of the Kundalini nothing to do on the contrary when the Kundalini awakened this centre absolutely stops no excretion of any. You will be surprised sometimes I have a program for 10 hours 11 hours I won't go to the bathroom. It just stops. That's why Christ has said you have to become children to enter it to the Kingdom because this is the innocence. Now this going little further is that on the centre is placed, the deity of Shri Ganesha. It has great meaning. What is Shri Ganesha how this is placed there all that stuff we will learn? But I told this scientist in America that this centre is made of a carbon atom. The carbon atom has got four leaves?
if you see this centre has a carbon atom. you make the model out of carbon atom. Then you watch if you see this one, how many are you trained? The Scientist is here.
Shri Mataji: So if you see it from the right side on the left side what you see of that atom is Swastika clearly see. Just show them they are a journalist. [UNCLEAR] So you see from the left side the right side you see Swastika. Then you should go see them see from the left side to the right side you see Omkara
If you see from down upward then you see alpha and omega, Alpha and Omega! See now this I stated in one of my lectures these people immediately jumped on to it. They took an atom of carbon took the model made it how about the scientists cleaner now? He's made this out of that beautifully made, but first, they made huge myth? and what Christ has said I am the alpha and omega. In these symbols alpha Omega which we use in our mathematics are ancient so Christ is an incarnation of the Ganesha.. it a scientific proof [UNCLEAR] So Ganesha is an eternal child
That's why he has got the trunk of an elephant. Innocence is our innocence.
Shri Mataji: So when the Kundalini rises. And she awakens, she can be awakened somehow I must say that this Modern Sahaja yoga. Only thing if I discovered anything is this that? amass awakening of the Kundalini amass thousands can get it. That's all I will serve nothing much. This is very ancient science they used to do to one person two people. Now it can be done amass in Russia. We always have a program in a big stadium 16000 minimum people. Practically everybody is realised Russians are the best. I don't know what Communism has turned. They are not at all idiot. They're not American style very straightforward and very introspective. Think he'll be stupid choices that democracy side you'll see in America even a lock has to be different tiles has to be different, the door of the car is different, handle is different. I mean if you get into their bathroom everything has to be different the choices are so maddening And there are all the time busy. What should we do something more to show that wear something different. Whole energy wasted these people. He provided for all material things because that makes them a little lethargically careless
Shri Mataji: But on the whole, there were not bothered about politics they didn't have to worry who coming to Chief Minister nothing so see their attention was introspective And the whole thing is always because if you see Dostoyevsky? or any one of the items. You have read Crime and punishment. You can see how introspective even the hero was. so wonderful knowledge. These people that they even the hero introspect before falling in love why I'm falling in love. What is the thing but it's wonderful so these people are very introspective and so in Russia, it has become extremely? Extremely successful, but all other your gurus and all of them
And they have a sense also, I think what is truth and what is not. Moreover, if anybody who asks for money. They don't like they understand you can't sell spirituality they don't like. How you can't sell spirituality. Not in India even we don't understand this of course Americans understand this. The more you charge the better it is. They would say like this is these gurus are very good they have a sale. It's all shopping its marketing. But they understood and we have now
200 doctors in Russia practising Sahaja yoga and the scientists 300 of them invited And when I talk about science, they said no more science we had enough we have reached the last end of it
We don't want anything and you tell us about God's law. Divine laws please don't talk about science. They also he come like this is somebody here, but was working really well
Shri Mataji: So what happens when the Kundalini awakens? it passes through
Six centres as I told you the first is establish his innocence. That's the support
Then it rises through six centres now on the physical side we suffer because our centres are out of real extreme living. So Kundalini what she does, these are the centres so the left and right sympathetic. They combine and form a centre like this in the spinal cord. spinal cord.
and what happens if you start thinking too much on the right side because you are very futuristic planning time. A journalist uses later like that and so we start would be more towards the right. All right those are very emotional type they go towards left. Sometimes something can happen they just break and things like cancer [UNCLEAR] what you got? Psychosomatic diseases can be caused this kind of imbalance left not that even if you are on the right or on the left if you go too far you might get those. Psychosomatic which are supposed to be incurable. Now, this Kundalini what she does is she goes here and passes through here just like we put the beats into threads into what you call threads in that it goes on threading all over. So she integrates our centre. Let's see, Normally if you want to do something, You decide to do something, but really your intelligence will say no. Oh, maybe you're attention may not be there and then you become an integrated personality. Whatever you do With your heart with your brain, Complete integration. There's no problem. First is that but what is the outward manifestation is that, once she crosses over first dilatation of the pupils takes place isn't it kind of an in little shine in the eyes comes And then it pierces through here, which is that fontanel bone area which in our language we call it Talu? In Sanskrit its Talu this thing suddenly opens out and it comes out and That energy becomes one with the subtle energies all-pervading power.
Shri Mataji: So now first we have to accept one is that first truth is That there is all-pervading power which does all the living work. We never questioned who does living work. How do we grow how does the seed becomes a tree we never questioned accept it look at our eyes what a camera. Look at our brain what a computer? We never bother question from where do we get this is done by this all-pervading divine second truth is That you are not this body-mind intellect you're not because it's my intellect. You say my heart my body. What is yourself? is the Spirit
So you are the Spirit the rest is my this my that. My mother my sister my house my body my eyes. So who is this my - who is this I obviously saw through in this Spirit so this spirit. you have to become. So far your attention is on the body your attention is on your eyes and everything then what happens as if you watch a house from outside the beginning and
Then they will go inside after inside you watch. So the whole awareness becomes very different
this we call Turiya in Sanskrit we call it a Fourth dimension. We live in Three Dimensions. This is the fourth dimension we get the fourth Dimension, what do we get in that dimension is?
Firstly you stand in your presence. Now, for example, you can think of the future or the past but in the present, I say now be in the present you can't. So what happens you become thoughtlessly aware you're aware, but absolutely no thought because thoughts come to you from the past or from the future in between these thoughts there is a little space so when this Kundalini rises she makes that space, and that's the space is the present [UNCLEAR] And spiritual life you grow only in the present because that's truth. You see the past is finished the future doesn't exist
But in the present in the reality now is sitting me to be if the reality just number is it you don't know what will happen in the future, or what her past finished. So first in your dimension, you become thoughtlessly aware but the second thing that happens to very wonderful. That you start feeling this all-pervading power on your fingertips as a very gently cool breeze on your fingertips
Adi Shankaracharya has called Salilam Satyam even Christ has said cool breeze of the holy ghost. Kundalini is the reflection of Adi Shakti or holy ghost in human beings as a result of that you're all these sympathetically systems. You have an ending to the sympathetic nervous system the Left-hand side seven five six and seven. So the left side is emotional side right side is your physical and mental side. we will give you the books so it is easy for you to know then you can start feeling. Not only is power, but he starts feeling others. Americans they called it Vibes they don't know what they mean by Vibes very good vibes actually vibes 1972 Mr Charlie said mother you get all these things listed or something as for. He said they're writing down all your thing that is very good idea nothing wrong. Awakening has to be done now first of all the main thing. That has to be done if you just take my words and write it down. What is that?
I don't want to become the monopoly of that. It's very good [UNCLEAR] The result of that okay now feel the centres of yourself so it's the self-knowledge and You can feel Center of others
on your fingertips Can feel what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you. You don't have to tell anything you just know that this is wrong now somehow if I know how to correct these centres you can be cured But all this is is mental physical emotional all of them are due to this And also spiritual problems, but if you put wrong gurus this that you get spiritual problems, False people
So a new dimension in your awareness comes called as collective consciousness collective
Samuhik chetana. So now who is other I Can feel you & you can feel them and every eight so with them you become part and parcel of the whole and then another great thing at the side
all your fingertips you can feel absolute truth. absolute truth which cannot be challenged
Absolute! Say you have ten children they are realised soul and tie up their eyes. Ask them. What's the matter of this lady? they raise one finger. you ask the lady have you got throat trouble? How do you know? because this finger is not right Everybody will say the same. I'm in a program. One man came why everybody's asking what is your relationship with your father? What is real? Why we bother with my father I said it's the centre you are catching on your heart. That's what they ask. Everybody asking they feeling it. So everybody feels the same
And you want to know about anybody say about Christ. Was he a son of God? Just put your hands like this. suddenly it flows! But somebody is a thief. or false man you put your hands just even if he's not in here you get burnings you get these little. Things and he gets all you might even get sometimes you blisters so you become enlighten now imagine how fantastic.
This is outside and inside you can completely transform. We have people were supposed to be like burning fire as far as the temper was a concern they become now like the Himalayas suddenly. People have changed apart from the health we of course. We have definitely seen. So many people world of blood cancer as ordinary cancer heart cancer so many. I mean there's so many them. Rahul? - really when asked he had a massive heart attack And he got cured with Sahaja yoga you won't believe he went to Houston and doctor shouted him. So it is like that so many people have been cured but it's for anybody's power which cures. It's your own this within you it's your own power as a result of that power which is actually is your own mother everybody has individual Kundalini own mother and she gives you the new birth she looks after you... so this Kundalini will not only cure your incurable disease so many have been cured that you won't believe that now we have doctor in every country practising Sahaja yoga.
Shri Mataji: Third one, Third & Fourth both came from TM Transmitting disease, but they developed issues homosexual even after getting cured they went back to the same habit. so they got it back. One fellow we still have who survived for 8 years for healthy is doing very well. He is in Australia. The trouble with that age differences is they have no willpower see what you call centre hearth means they are so insecure so insecure That you see after getting cure also you have kept to certain [matya?] you have to be But they don't then indulge into homosexuality or Outside will show we are like martyr inside they are very weak
So it happens like that If they really want live they can if they really want to work it out they can
But with Sahaja yoga you can never get AIDS that's one thing guaranteed Because all your priority changes in Sahaja Yoga the doctors are now really nobody goes to any doctor. He knows all these things, but the doctors are finished as far as Sahaja yogis are concerned
So at the most, they might get some cold or something at most. But they are so healthy
They are so energetic that. You can't imagine how a person could be like that [UNCLEAR] she get too much cold and rash and all those what you call allergy and all. Now is such a dynamic fellow today he will be in Germany tomorrow in Japan he is so so healthy and so happy and so relaxed become absolutely a relaxed person. It's balanced very much and above all compassion very compassionate. Now all these Sahaja yogis
they are swimming in an ocean of Joy but what their headache is that mother why not have more people remain in an ocean of Joy. I'm all the time travelling I went to South America I'm 70 years I'm travelling all over all the time but what I'm going to do If people want to come I have to do this but if but people want to come I will have to but people they don't want to come what can I do? so this is trouble they so anxious more come and they are running up and down all over the world they are running here to there. they are trying to find more people. Even in Maharashtra, we go to villages bringing people. so it a countrywide propagation. But you see actually got detached about it that you don't worry about your health. you don't worry about your age you don't even think of it. you feel very Young and all the time the active over this just don't feel for it
There is no group like young, old. We all enjoyed together. Whatever may be there is a small boy
adult that doesn't exist. Also, that doesn't exist in religion as far as the outside religion nothing, for example, we worship Rama, We worship Shri Krishna Also, be worship Mohammad Saheb because he was Dattatreya. They don't know but we know. He was Dattatreya. And Fathima we worship because she came as Sita later on, so we worship we know that It's not just
Shri Mataji: Sarva Dharma Sambhav Even Gandhiji was not like this the way these people work. Gandhiji in his prayers I was with him from my child actually I helped him in writing his
Sequels of [UNCLEAR] all about Kundalini we wrote. He was a realised soul But we were fighting for freedom that time and he said without freedom what is the use of Spirituality
so Gandhiji if he was living today he would have definitely helped me a lot. Even Lal Bahadur Shastri was a realised soul. We are very unfortunate. We lost them
Reporter: Gurbachan?
Gurbachan has realised soul?
Shri Mataji:
yes, he was a realised soul but his wife you know you see?!. He is very high-level person. Very good person. He has done his job. No doubt. So now this, I told you about.
Reporter:
Mohammed?
Gandhiji?
Shri Mataji:
He was a realized soul, no doubt! and He was the one who believed in Sarva Dharma Sambhav.
In his Sarva Dharma Sambhav. He made everyone worship everyone, like Muslim, Maybe a congressman or anybody used to come to Ashram. He had to say the Mantras of Shri Ganesha
He have to take a Mantras of Vishnu, Saraswathi, You see it starts with the first of all whatever in my heart [UNCLEAR] resides the Spirit. See with the Spirit then he starts with Ganesh and every deity then he goes to the Quran and you have to say the Quranic and then you have to say also this from the another, Farsi, Yes, all that matters. So you have to worship all of them. He followed [UNCLEAR] said see if you just say Sambhav means you don't worship why don't you worship? Everybody should worship to follow them because they are different. They are not politicians or anything. They are not religious Christ has said those who are not against us, are with us. Even Mohammed saheb said also there has been 1 lac of Nabis. He respected Christ mother more than all Deity. Christ father. He says she's a holy woman but Paul is the one who ruined Christianity so much, we said. Human beings are very good ruining everything sublime or somehow or other they manage it. If you see through the essence of Christ as I told you now, alpha and omega, Christ resides in our Agnya chakra on the six centres. Christ very important. yeah, on the optic chiasm. There is on one side is the pituitary and the other side is
the pineal body pituitary looks after our Ego of the whole of up-down working and the pineal body towards our conditioning. In Chinese, it's Yin, Yang. So one is Ego and another is Superego psychological terminology. So one is the ego and another is the conditioning so these two balloons go up like this gradually. So when they cover us we are cut off as children Beyond one, but we don't feel but we are one, but when the Kundalini connect us then only you can feel it. Now you see for example this instrument or whatever you have to put it to the mains otherwise it doesn't work. So you can call this as Kundalini. Which is in a coil? And some other threads come up open Sahasrara and connects. It's subtle very subtle.
Shri Mataji: How do we live? we live in three Dimensions like I Am here, and I'm looking at the mirror. So I'm the one who is observing my reflection is what I'm observing. There is an action of observance, so there is the observer, observed and also the observance, which is the Kriya activity that we live in this three. But supposing you become the mirror suppose then all these things drop out this is what is called witness state where you just watch, the whole thing is Drama but when we are not realised we get lost in the drama [HINDI]
so we become ourselves means we know ourselves. We don't have to take the mirror, we know yourself to know yourself is the only point and this is our heritage. This is the important point we Indians must understand. When they come you know they come and touch our motherland and say Namaskar. Some of them kiss these foreigners. the respect! Because they know what it is. I send them to Devagudu Thukaram place and other Sahaja yogis told me that mother they are rolling on the ground so I said what were you doing, they said mother all over mother earth these vibrations coming out. so we are rolling on it. [HINDI] overnight people have given up the drug, drug addicts, Alcoholics, overnight [HINDI] They have really become righteous they really become religious [HINDI] Because once you get the light, you know what it is that? If you have a snake in the hand if you are in the darkness you can't see, you can say it's just a rope. Once you get the light, you just leave it, because you know its a snake. That's what happens to them [HINDI] they become strong [HINDI] they give up aggressiveness. they are not aggressive. In their silence they become powerful. My husband always used to say that [HINDI] But you cannot make anybody? Now he says so many angels now he has to accept. I had to work out our years together. What is the problem? why we cannot have an amass realisation the time has come then I worked it out. In our country especially the young generation has no destination. They don't know what to do with themselves [HINDI] if they take to Sahaja Yoga now see in our Sahaja yoga, Yuva Sakthi, nobody then it worked. All boys get first class first, All, wherever they are educated. All girls get married now we also have a marriage system. 84 Marriage, 13 Indian from Pune. They are all abroad. So many boys got married and in abroad.
Reporter:
Mataji, you take a personal interest in the marriage alliances?
[HINDI]
Shri Mataji: [HINDI]
I'm just telling them how you people are married to Indian boys and how Indian girls are married
[HINDI] And how you are enjoying your life, it's good. She coaches together
[INAUDIBLE] A dog doesn't think [UNCLEAR] only human beings think. We think we are doing it. The whole ego and the Super-ego both of them are sucked And all your karmas are finished. One goes Beyond the influence of planets. Yes, of course, Human destiny go after not after realisation, do you they affect? In the beginning maybe before not after [HINDI]