Press Conference 1989-12-27

Location

India

Talk duration

106'

Category

Conference

Spoken Language

English, Hindi

Audio

Available

Video

Available

Text Status

Transcript (English) – Draft

27 December 1989

Conference

Hotel Poonam, Pune (India)

Talk Language: English, Hindi | Transcript (English) – Draft | Translation (Hindi to English) - Draft

TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE HOTEL POONAM PUNE DECEMBER 27, 1989

[First six minutes of recording, Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are waiting for the press to arrive. Recording resumes as Mother has started addressing the press persons who have arrived].

Shri Mataji: Which has to be attended to very seriously. It is not a frivolous subject. And, one has to understand that when our civilisation has grown so much outside, like a tree; we must also find out the roots. Because we have not tried to do that, all these problems are coming up in the whole world.

You will be surprised that the roots are in India. And that we have the knowledge. We have had that knowledge since ancient times. Of course, I must say everybody knew about it. Muhammad Saab knew about it. Jesus knew about it. Buddha knew about it. Mahavira knew about it. All of them knew about it. But they did not find people who were able to receive it. One must have the ability to receive it.

And it is already described. That when this Kaliyuga would come, when this modern times would come, people would be going into a condition called “sabhrant”; means in a condition called illusion and confusion. Which is true. Because it is Indian, we should not discard it. Is wrong. We should be fair – to ourselves, to our country and to our heritage.

And that where today, when we are having all kinds of confusion, all kinds of relative ideas, one has to find out the Absolute. That is the time when we are going to find out; because we are pressed by all kinds of confusion, all kinds of illusions, all kinds of problems. All the theories will be failing, and we will start thinking about it. I would say, like – now you have seen how, in Russia, it is breaking up. But also democratic countries have problems. Tremendous problems.

I must say I have travelled much more widely than anyone of you and I have seen them. I have got disciples from there, lots of them and I know the problems they face. So democracy has the biggest problem that it is money-oriented. Communism is not money-oriented; it is power-oriented, but it has shown its teeth. Money orientation has to have all kinds of problem of money orientation. So corruption has to come into democracy – you cannot help it. Of course, it is limited. But there is no democratic country yet, I know of, which has not got corruption. So there is something wrong in that field.

So now we have to find something Absolute.

Now, the roots are within human beings. The roots are within us. They are not without.

In the Bible is described the Tree of Life. But Christ was given only four years to live. Actually, publicly, he lived for only four years. Four years is not a time when you can talk about anything. I was in London for four years, battling with seven hippies. For seven years, I could not do anything to them. So whatever was possible, He said it. He said you have to be born again. That does not mean you should take some certificate; "I am born again". It is happening.

Even, in any Indian scripture, it is written – you must get your self-realisation, "Atmasakshatkar". There is no scripture which has not talked about it. But, to what extent they have gone, to what detail they have gone, is a different point. Which I have to cover up all that and I have to show you.

So, the second part of it is that there is a force called Kundalini in our triangular bone. This triangular bone is called as sacrum. Now sacrum is the Latin word and it means sacred. That means the Greeks knew that there is a sacred bone within us. We cannot forget our histories, everything, just to become modern; we cannot hang in the air. Sacred bone. And in some people where there is obstruction, you can even see this bone pulsating just like the heart. Now there are five-six doctors here; they have all seen it.

Now when you are raising the Kundalini, you might see for some people, this bone pulsating you're your own heart. You might see with your eyes. And in some people, you might even see the rising of the Kundalini, clearly. Because – if there is obstruction. But if there is no obstruction in a personality, it is a very balanced personality, then the Kundalini rises like a jet. I am Myself surprised at the happenings that are happening.

So there are qualities and capabilities. There are some people for whom I might say – there is one gentleman; I am working on him for the last six years still he could not get realisation though he is breaking my head. Six years, I do not know. And he has funny ideas. He does not want to get married, he does not want to have children, he does not want this, he does not want that. I said you cannot have Kundalini awakening.

You have to be a normal person. If you are a normal person, then the Kundalini rises. If you are abnormal – now, in this we have got three types of people. I mean, in general, they say. There are some people who we call as left-sided. Means the people who are very emotional. But they can go further. They can become absolutely emotional – all the time, crying, weeping that type of people. Now, this type of people is created by a centre. Or created and supported or fed or nourished by a channel, we can say, is called an Ida Nadi. Is the moon. Just see. You see, a lunatic is called as "luna". Luna means moon. That means they knew about it. Otherwise, why did they call him lunatic? Such people can become lunatic, they can become epileptic – all these left-sided psychological diseases – depression, all these come from this left side.

Now the movement from the centre starts. Because, in the beginning, the left side, is our past. Present past, then the past of this life, past of other lives, it goes into the second line. Which we say, in the resonance it passes through the second line which is coming from the past – we can say, the subconscious mind. Then beyond that subconscious mind is an area which is called as the collective subconscious.

If you have read Jung, he has dealt with it. When we talk about science, we have read all the people. We cannot read just one simple fellow and start talking about it. Jung is a psychologist who was a disciple of Freud and who deviated from him, and he has talked about the collective subconscious. This collective subconscious has everything within us since our creation.

Now whatever I am telling you, I would not expect you to believe Me, not at all. You must keep your minds open, like a scientist. But if these things are proved, you have to accept. This is a hypothesis for you. But later on, you must accept it.

Now the collective subconscious mind is beyond us. And that collective conscious mind has everything that was created, since our creation. And now for that, I must say, that the doctors in the West have discovered that the cancer is triggered by some proteins that come to us from some area which was created in the past since the creation was created. So they have reached that much point, you see. We must say, whatever they have reached – they have even photographed those proteins.

Now those dead souls that are there. There are many things that have gone out of circulation of our evolution. Like the dead animals, we can say, the dead vegetables. Now viruses are nothing but certain dead vegetables. Or could be some small animals which have gone out of our circulation.

Now how do we cure this thing? What you do – if your attention goes towards the left side too much, then you get caught up into these problems. If you can somehow or other bring your attention to the centre, then you are away from it. That is as simple as that.

So these are left-sided diseases; you can get epilepsy, you can get depression. Also, so many psychosomatic problems are triggered by it. Like we have militias where the muscles are getting strengthless and all that. All these, all of them can be sorted out if you can bring your attention from left to right. Is as simple as that.

Now another area is what we call as supraconscious. Now supraconscious area lies on our right side. That is the area which deals with our future. Now all futuristic people deal with it. Because it is mental. Mental, you see, the English word is very funny as they call it. "Baudhik". English you see, as it is, has its own limitations I must say. Because in English, Atma is Spirit. "Bhut" is a spirit. Alcohol is a spirit. I mean, but in the Marathi language, you every shade of everything has different. So you can say "baudhik". Baudhik and physical side, on the right-hand side. You deal with and your get your nourishment, all your energy from the right side called as Pingala Nadi as Surya (the sun).

So the sun line on the right-hand side does that. But they cross over. Once they cross over, one goes to the right, one goes to the left and that is how you have two lobes in the brain. The brain is not one, it has two lobes. Absolutely two separate lobes. So if you are using only one lobe on one side, another side gets weaker. If you are using this lobe too much, then another side gets weaker. So what you have to have for that, you must have a balance.

Now, these days you must have heard of a lot of people dying of tension, over-activity, all kinds of problems they have. Because of the pressures of life, the speed of life. And nowadays, as I told before when in America I went; I told them about AIDS a long time back. I told them you will get AIDS also. And then now I have told them you will another disease which will come; you cannot do anything with the conscious mind. But you can do it in an unconscious way.

Supposing you want to walk, you will get up and walk. But if you want to walk, you cannot walk. Because you have used too much of your conscious mind. And is already, already coming up. In America, it has already started.

[Inaudible question].

Shri Mataji: I have not given it a name. What is it called, doctor?

[Inaudible].

Shri Mataji: Yuppies disease. Yuppies. You see. This is Doctor Bogdan from Russia. And we have Doctor Spiro from England, we have Doctor Pepe from Spain, we have Doctor Chug from Delhi. He is the one. You know, yuppie disease is such that, it is like if you want to do something you cannot do it. Supposing I want to lift this glass, unconsciously I will lift it. But if I want to do it consciously, I cannot do it. It is already settling down. About three-four years back I talked about it. It is already there. Also another disease I said, they will suffer from overactivity. They will not know what to do with themselves. Overactivity. It is a syndrome. All right.

So, on the right-hand side if you are too much; say, you are very futuristic, you are extremely particular about time and you are very particular about everything, systematic. Because as it is after all, now we are trying to systematize everything. So after all, we are human beings. We are not machines. So we should not try to become machines. Once we try to become machines, it tells upon our body. Because this is a very delicate body. It is a very delicate thing.

And then it acts. It gives you – for example, many people get heart attacks. Is to say only with fat you get heart attack is wrong. There are two types of heart attacks. One is due to the lethargic heart. Where you get angina. That comes if you have this centre of, of - obliterated – you get angina. And that is how the heart cannot act; is a lethargic heart. And another heart attack comes to people who are workaholics. Who are over hardworking. Who is exerting too much pressure right side? So the left side you get a heart attack. This is another type of heart attack.

Now definitely we have cured. Sahaja Yoga has cured, definitely has cured heart. Many. Many like him. He is not the only. And in Pune, I have cured many people of heart, no doubt. But I should not say I have cured because actually, your Kundalini has done the job. Only thing is in My presence it rises fast, that is all.

Now for this, how can you charge anyone? It is a living process. Kundalini rising is the living evolutionary process. We have come up to a point of human awareness. Now first, what I told you – that we do not know the Absolute Truth.

Because at a human level, what we can do is to project our mind, that is all. The projection of our mind is linear, and it cannot be sustained. It has to be sustained. And that is why, whatever we think – may not be all right, may come back upon us and may trouble us. That is why science – now they have problems. Acid rain, they have this problem, they have that problem. Out of the way they have gone into extremes. So to balance it, there is no other force. But once you get your spiritual awakening, you become a balanced personality. Then you know how far to go with anything.

We are not for machinery, but the machinery is for us. Now it is working the other way round. We have become slaves of machines. Not in this country yet. In other countries, machines are dominating. And we have to learn from them. Whatever they are suffering, we should learn from them. Instead of blindly following them. Then we will be in trouble.

Now, so the right-sided people who are there are aggressive by nature. They are very aggressive. While the left-sided are sly. But the right-sided people are extremely aggressive. They may be very ascetic type, maybe very systematic. So the one side we can say the brain develops while another side the heart develops. But up to a point. Supposing a person is a very right-sided person, he may end up with paralysis. Quite possible. Easily. He can end up with paralysis, he can get a heart attack, he can get diabetes. There are so many diseases which are connected with the right side. For that I would, I do not mind that you are not medical people. But you do not mind if I tell you the truth about it, a little bit. It is very easy to understand.

We have a centre called Swadishthana chakra which comes out of the Nabhi chakra. Now this centre, Swadishthana chakra centre – what does it do? It converts fat cells for the use of the brain. Fat cells for the use of the brain. Now, medically it is not written anywhere. I have done medicine; I know medically it is not written anywhere. Also, they know. But we can find out how we have cured blood cancer.

Now what happens is when this Swadishthana centre is working too hard – supposing you are thinking too much, then you are using your grey cells. And what is replacing those grey cells; there is nothing to replace it. So what happens that this chakra, poor thing has to work very hard. To convert them into grey cells. As a result, it has other works to be done which are left out. Like he cannot look after your liver. Liver, then pancreas, then your kidneys and your – especially your spleen. And part of your intestines. All these things are neglected.

Now we have two cases here of blood cancer; luckily, who have been cured completely. Now both of them are architects, very hardworking and successful architects. And, what has happened with them is this – that they were working very hard and using all their energy for their brain. Neglecting their spleen. And, all such people are also very hectic. Now, what is the spleen? Spleen is a speedometer within us. It is a speedometer.

So there has to be rhythm in our life. If there is no rhythm – now somebody gets up very early in the morning, then reads the newspaper. I should not say something wrong, newspaper. But mostly the news is very shocking. You see, I read it after taking breakfast. But if you read it before taking breakfast you can get a shock. Better to read it after. Now if you read a newspaper, an emergency is setting within you. So the spleen starts working. Now the shock has come. Some sort of shock you know – good, I mean, after all, you have to inform people about it. But early in the morning is too much sometimes, I think. So it could be later or in the evening if it is possible. Because it will soothe you down. Because what happens is your spleen starts working very hard. All right.

Some people are not very sensitive, but some are very. Then you are going – say there is a jam on the way. Then you are worried; you cannot reach the office. And then you reach the office in another mess. And there is a boss shouting at you. Or you are doing some work. Like these architects are working hard. They have to go to reach someplace – somebody is going to come from somewhere. All kinds of problems in the head, think about it – how are we going to reach, what am I going to do. As a result of this hectic habit, this poor speedometer gets upset.

It does not understand what is the matter with this gentleman. Why they are going so hectic? They will not even take their breakfast at home, they will eat it on the way, the poor wife will be shouting – all sorts of things happening in these modern times. So, this hecticness on the spleen causes the vulnerability to blood cancer. And somehow some shock from the left-hand side comes on them; it triggers it. And they – both of them were told you are going to die within one month’s time. It is now five, six years; they are still getting well and doing their work.

So what happens with Kundalini? That when she rises, she nourishes those centres. Now see, this is a centre in between, this is the left side and right side. So, they just go like this. If you use one more or one more, they go like this. There is no space. So when this Kundalini comes up she puts them right like this. She nourishes them. So the parasympathetic energy is also put in it and the person gets all right. Is the easiest thing. But the easiest thing most people do not understand.

But you must know that most of the vital things are the easiest; they have to be. Like we breathe. If we have to read books or go to something else to breathe, how many will survive? It is so vital, so vital that we have to have Kundalini awakening in those days. So vital, so important that it works. And works very fast. Because after all, our Creator is worried about us. He is not going to destroy us; He is not going to let us get destroyed by our madness of modern life. He is going to look after us. So, the Kundalini works very fast and we are getting thousands and thousands of people realised.

By this, I would say that firstly say that there was a doctor, Sethi Doctor, who was, was he in Lady Harding? Lady Harding. He took up and he has proved that physical fitness improves tremendously by Sahaja Yoga. And he got an M.D.

Now to say in such an irresponsible way that we are making people weak is absolutely wrong. And extremely irresponsible. Now, this is for the "Kalyana" (welfare) of the world. This is for everybody's benevolence. While, if you are interested in the benevolence of yourself, of your country and your children, you all should take to Sahaja Yoga seriously. Is very important. If you are thinking about that.

Now, this thing is not so easy to explain to the Western people because their minds are different. But they have accepted Me much more than Indians have accepted, in away. Intelligentsia. Because their intelligence has reached the end of it. Their scientists have reached the end of it. So they want to turn back and see what is in other areas. They want to see other areas. And they think India is the place. And when they come, they just go back. They say this is another New York, this is another. They do not find that knowledge.

Or else we have got these false gurus, I have told – everybody's name I took in 1970. And I told all of them are false gurus. And all these things that are called blind faith. I am absolutely against it. Not only that; I have flouted it. In every country, I have done that.

But first, you must have divine discretion. Otherwise, how can you say whether something is false, or something is not? You must have divine discretion. That is why I said only a self-realised person can do it.

Now we come to the second point, where people say whether is ghost or bhut or not. There is, say. That is nothing, but as I told you, the proteins which are in the collective subconscious mind. And they attack people. This is a soul. It has got seven loops. And we too have got a soul which has got seven loops. Now, the proof of this is in many ways – in the West people have not travelled much so they do not know. But the other day, they showed Me, they showed us a film about a gentleman, Gauguin came on. You must have heard his name, he is a great, famous painter called Gauguin (possibly Van Gogh), who died as a madman. Came onto him. And he started painting sunflowers and all that, such a mastery. And he said I am Gauguin. He came for a short time. [Inaudible/said], I am Gaugin, I have possessed him.

There are so many cases like that. People are having research centres and all that to find out what are these phenomenon. They have not just discarded it as wrong. Of course, there are people who make money out of everything. But that does not mean it does not exist. It is there.

Yesterday only, there was an old man sitting in front of Me. And he said Mother you do something on me. And when it worked out he said, “I hope by this, “mala dharlela sodel”. Means I am possessed, I hope it gets out. You do get possessed. And that is what these gurus are using. They mesmerise you mean mesmerism is nothing but possession. They possess you. Because of that possession, people start giving their money, their everything to them.

So just to say they do not exist, you are supporting all these people. Now the scientific proof of it. I will tell you the scientific proof of it. You see, when you get your realisation, you see in the sky small little, small little commas shining like that. Especially in India. It is a very great country you are living in. It is a yogabhoomi, no doubt about it. Even Christ came here and lived here. So it is a very great country. Also, you see sometimes, loops. Sometimes one loop, sometimes many loops put together.

I told them that these, all these spirits have loops. And when they sit on you, they start acting on you. They start troubling you. Now have here Doctor Mishra, who is a very great scientist from America. They are open-minded Indians I would say because when they went abroad, they saw how we would have to expand our mind. And he has told Me, that they have already found out those loops within ourselves. I also them, it sits on our back, our soul and it is reflected on ourselves, our receptor. Now they have found out. It is the seven loops. They cannot explain what the seven loops are.

So, just to discard something because it is Indian or not very scientific, is not a proper idea. Most of these things could look unscientific. But whatever science has found out, there could be something beyond it. Even Einstein has said, " I was trying to find the Theory of Relativity, but from somewhere unknown, the whole knowledge of relativity dawned upon me". Now he was a realised soul, Newton was a realised soul, Abraham Lincoln was a realised soul. You can see from the way. Even Gorbachev is a realised soul. That is why they have recognised this.

So now, this second point is about Gyaneshwara. We are not spokesmen for Gyaneshwara. But I will tell you, our Indian books have no sort of copyright. Any one of them has no copyright. Anybody can change anything, do what they like, dispute anything. The Gyaneshwari that I read in My childhood has not got all these things written in it. But one fellow was sitting before Me, with his legs towards Me; everybody said you cannot sit like this towards Mother. So he said, "No, no but if I sit cross-legged, I will start jumping like a frog". So I called him and said, "Why should you jump like a frog?". He said, "In my Gyaneshwari, it is written". Now he said my guru has told me you would jump like a frog. All right. And where did you read that? In the Gyaneshwari. The guru had written the Gyaneshwari, in that he had written you would jump like a frog. Now, I asked him "Are you going to become a frog or an earthworm after this?". So, we have to see all the others. Specially Gyaneshwara's Pasayadan.

(in Marathi to a Sahaja Yogi): Do you have Pasayadan, do you have it written with you? Yes, please recite it.

To the press: You just see. That is exactly what Sahaja Yoga is. And how could such a man write all these things? He cannot. What is the use of flying the air? What is the use of walking on water? Of course, Christ did walk. I know that. Why He walked, also I know. But what is the use today?

Pasayadan, now this is exactly Sahaja Yoga, what he has described. Now please, I know all of you do not understand Marathi. But it is absolutely clear.

Journalist: All of us understand Marathi.

Shri Mataji: You understand Marathi?

(in Marathi to Sahaja Yogi): Please recite it.

(in Marathi to the press): Now see, this is exactly Sahaja Yoga. Pasaydan means giving vibrations. Chaitanya. Please recite.

[Sahaja Yogi recites Pasaydan and Mother explains each line].

Sahaja Yogi: "Aata Vishwatmake Deve, Yene wag-yadne toshave,

Toshoni maj dyave, pasaydaan he."

Shri Mataji: Yes, now he says that the Spirit of the whole Vishwa (world) should get satisfied with me because I have done the Swani yagna and he should give me pasaydan. This is the “daan” (boon or divine gift). Is the vibrations. This chaitanya lahiri.

Sahaja Yogi: “Je khalanchi venkati sando”.

Shri Mataji: “Khalanchi” means people who are intriguers. Intriguers. Intriguers should give up their intrigues.

Sahaja Yogi: “Taya satkarmee rati vaadho,

Shri Mataji: They should become “satkarmis” (doing good deeds). They all have become. My husband says they have become angels.

Sahaja Yogi: “ Bhoota paraspare pado, maitra jeevanche."

Shri Mataji: "Aapapsaat prem". They should have a love for each other. Now you will be surprised if I tell you here we have thirty-six nations. And there are Indians of all status, of all types. But the way they love each other is so remarkable that I am Myself surprised sometimes; I tell you. How they support each other, how they look after themselves. But the most remarkable thing was when I went to Russia; twenty-five Germans came and gave them their realisation. To Russians. And looked after them. This is love. This is real love. Yes, please recite further.

Sahaja Yogi: “Duritanche timir jaavo”

Shri Mataji: “Duritanche timir jaavo". The darkness. The darkness should go away and ignorance.

Sahaja Yogi: “Vishwa-swadharma surye paho”

Shri Mataji: Vishwa. The whole universe must see the swadharma. Even Shivaji has talked about it. Swadharma. Swa is your Atma. Now you will be surprised that in America, Vishwa Nirmal Dharma has been accepted, officially. We have got official recognition by America. Of course, Russia has recognised us, officially. But Vishwa Nirmal Dharma has been accepted by America. Go ahead.

Sahaja Yogi: Jo je vanchil to te laho, pranijaat."

Shri Mataji: Whatever you want you will get it. You ask them. They have experienced it. But then your desires change. You do not ask for the wrong things. Your desires change.

Sahaja Yogi: "Varshat sakal-mangali, ishwar-nishthanchi mandiyali,

Shri Mataji: Wah. Wah. Did you understand this?

Sahaja Yogi: Anwarat bhoo mandali, bhetatu boota."

Chala kalptarunche aarava

Shri Mataji: Chala kalptarunche aarava. Kalpataru means the tree which gives you what you want. The desire. Now it is about the Sahaja Yogis. "Aarava" means the great forest. Now come along the forest which can give boons to people.

Sahaja Yogi: Chetana chintamaninche gaav,

Shri Mataji: Chetana chintamaninche gaav. Further?

Sahaja Yogi: Bolate je arnava, peeyushanche

Shri Mataji: Yes. “Bolate je arnava”. Aarnav means the sea. Sea of piyushanche, means “amrutanche” means ambrosia. The speaking – I mean, Gyaneshwara is so great. His poetry is so great that to translate it also you kill it. How do you say it?

Sahaja Yogi (in Marathi): The seas of amruta.

Shri Mataji: These are oceans which are full of ambrosia and they are talking. They are talking. Further.

Sahaja Yogi: Chandrame je a-lanchan.

Shri Mataji: Chandrame je a-lanchan. Yes.

Sahaja Yogi: Martand je taap-heen

Shri Mataji: Their description is. Their faces are like the moon without any spots on them. No “lanchan”. And “Martand je taap-heen”, they are like sun without any heat in them. They are cooling.

Sahaja Yogi: Te sarvahi sada sajjan, soyare hotu.

Shri Mataji: They are the relations. They become relations with each other. They have no other relations. They are relations. “Te sajjan”. Righteous people: they become friends.

Sahaja Yogi: Kimbahuna sarva-sukhi, purna houni tinhi loki,

Bhaji-jo aadi-purukhi, a-khandit."

Shri Mataji: The whole world has to become one to respect the Primordial Master or the Primordial Being. He has said it. When he has said all these things, how can he say you can fly in the air, you can do these nonsensical things. But I would say that, at a certain stage of course; there are "drushtas". Means ones who are seers. I would say William Blake was one of them. Our Rabindrababu was one of them. There were many "drushtas". As you must have read Gita and all those things; that Sanjaya was a drushta. So that is, they are seers. They can see things. But that is a different stage altogether.

But this kind of thing is done by TM. They are promising you can fly in the air. Nobody, nobody gets after them. Now they have broken the bottoms of so many people and so many cases are on them. They have taken thousands of crores of rupees and looted them; leeches they are. I have got – I do not know if I have brought it with Me, but the whole thing about them. Is so horrid. Their disciples had come before Me. And they were just shaking before Me, like this. I have saved so many of them. And what mantras they give? I will tell you. For three hundred pounds, they give a mantra “Inga, pinga, thinga”; you all know what it means. And secretly. You have to go through seven rooms. In the seventh room, some sort of guru is sitting, and he gives these mantras for three hundred pounds. Six thousand pounds he charges, three hundred pounds. And six thousand pounds he charged.

We had a husband of one of them, Doctor Spiro. His wife was really mad when she came to Me. Six thousand pounds they charge for going to their courses. Six thousand pounds. And for six thousand pounds what do they give you to eat. For six days they give you water which is boiled which has lots of potatoes in it. Then they give you the rind of the potatoes and then the potatoes. They say you must thin down if you have to fly in the air.

And people, they are so mad. Because there is money, they go to him. And they always tell Me, Mother you do not ask for money that is why nobody comes to You. I say I am very happy. Such people are not going to be anywhere. Up to this point that BBC people came to Me and said nobody can understand anything without money. I said, what do they understand. He said, "We are Anglo-Saxon brains. And Anglo-Saxon brains cannot understand anything without money". I said, "Who has made the brains; God or somebody else?".

[Inaudible question or comment by a journalist].

Shri Mataji (in Marathi): Yes, yes he is the same one. He is pukka thief, very cunning. Write it down. Write it that I am saying it. He has not filed a case against Me. I tell about him everywhere. I will send all his papers to you. You will be surprised that one woman; he has harassed so much.

(in English): He formed a flying foundation. I will send you a letter from the director of the organisation. You publish it, at least.

(In Marathi and English): Publish about it. They are master thieves. They are all such cunning people. Not just one, there was that others who went from here fourteen years ago. Your Rajneesh who is sitting here. All this is cunningness. What is the connection with money? How can you take any money? It is a living process, I am saying. How can you pay for it? That is why everyone is after Me. And they from there.

They are after Me because I am against them and here is this “Nirmulan Andhashraddha” (Eradicate Blind Faith – an organisation in Maharashtra in the eighties which was notorious for their violent protests), they too.

[Inaudible question from journalist/why the organisation cannot recognise].

Shri Mataji (in Marathi): What recognition do they have? That Manav saheb, I think he does not have a normal head also. What to talk about with him? Has he received any education? He is saying that in this modern age and the scientific situation – means is he is a big scientist or what? Why you do not even know the valency of carbon, what are you talking about? Do you have any intelligence or no? I spent three hours with that man. Nothing went into his head.

Such people here means, just pick something to the crib. And now they are going to give them sixty-five lakh (rupees); the government. Sharad Pawar (politician) is going to give them, that is what I heard. For what? What have they done? Whom have they benefitted, first tell Me that?

I can give the names of thousands of people who are in Sahaja Yoga and who have benefited from it. And we have M.D.s – now see this Doctor Chugh here. He – on what subject you did Doctor?

[Inaudible reply].

Shri Mataji: And his papers have reached America. He has received an M.D. We have cured thousands of liver patients. But how can we keep blowing our own trumpet? That is why I have never said anything. Now when we cure one, they bring another ten.

[Inaudible question/about some challenge].

Shri Mataji: Their challenge is idiotic. If I tell you tomorrow.

[Inaudible/a journalist interjects]

Shri Mataji: I will tell you what their challenge is about. What I said, they say, is that Shivaji is like that. I have never said such a thing. Instead, I am against it. These are "shudras siddhyas" (low grade?). What their position is, see their slyness. They said that it is written in the Gyaneshwari – one can walk on water, do this, do that. Now which Gyaneshwari must be some kind of modern Gyaneshwari. They can write anything on it. But Gyaneshwara can never write that; I can give it in writing. Because it is “bhutvidya” (paranormal knowledge).

[Inaudible statement or question. Mother laughs].

Shri Mataji: This is all false. Gyaneshwara can never write such things. He wrote only about spirituality. To the extent that he did not even try to criticise society. What a change has to be made to the work of such a great man. If you must, Tukaram hurled curses at society. Ramdas hurled curses. They all have some little thing like that (in their legacy). Your, that, Nusiya (?) Saraswati, he would beat up people with his shoes. These people have worked so hard.

But Gyaneshwara lived for twenty-three years only. What can happen to someone in only twenty-three years? In that, he has written that his spiritual knowledge is for everyone. Read his "Amrutanubhav" then you will understand. Just pick up some grouse.

[Inaudible/journalist is again asking about a challenge and ability to walk on water, fly in the air].

Shri Mataji: Nothing like that. Nothing like that. If that is so, I will give them a challenge of four lakhs (rupees). You satisfy yourself about Gyaneshwara. Am I Gyaneshwara?

[Inaudible question or comment].

Shri Mataji: Now the second question is – three doctors here have got an M.D. Three doctors. Now what more proof of hypothesis should I offer? Tell me now.

[Inaudible/journalist saying the organisation has a panel of doctors also].

Shri Mataji: They have a panel of doctors? How many? Then they should perform an experiment on Sahaja Yoga. Do it openly. I will be very happy if they come and do it. No, no let them come. Tell them to come. I will show them how this makes a difference you can then see. Even if they do not get it, they do not receive self-realisation, still, they can see. Before realisation and after realisation. This is a scientific thing, not a trivial thing that just anyone can stand up and start talking about it.

And of doctors, what doctors? We have a doctor, Doctor Wales, he was addicted to alcohol and drugs. He came to Sahaja Yoga. After coming to Sahaja Yoga – he is going to come here; I am going to hold a big conference in Mumbai. Now he – there was such a great transformation in him; he had left his jobs and all. Now he is the head of seven hospitals in London. Nowadays one can find many doctors. But if they come and take the effort; I challenge them to come and see and read their books (of Sahaja doctors) and see all that they have done. We want doctors for research but there is no research to be done. Just observe what difference Sahaja Yoga makes and publish it. What does it take to do it? But no doctor is ready for that.

There are some – I will not say that no doctor in India is ready. But the ones who have gone abroad are better. Their heads are more open.

[Inaudible question or comment].

Shri Mataji: Of course. Why not?

[Inaudible question or comment].

Shri Mataji: Now see this case itself. The case of Rahul Bajaj (one of India’s biggest industrialists).

[Inaudible question or comment].

Shri Mataji: Let him tell. He is Mr Malhotra. He is a big businessman from here.

Mr Malhotra: Dear friends, I hope most of you know me. I am B.R. Malhotra. I have a factory here called Weikfield Products Company. I think I have met you a couple of times in some other press conferences. The question is not of proving any faith or proving anything in this Sahaja Yoga. It is an experience. It is an experience, you know; please note it. And the experience could only be with the seeker, who is a true seeker.

Shri Mataji: That is true. Ninety per cent.

Mr Malhotra: It cannot be taken by every Tom, Dick and Harry. That just he feels he should realise, he should see God, he should see realisation. And he can see it. He has to be a true seeker first.

Shri Mataji: That is the point.

Mr Malhotra: We cannot take every person on the street and ask him, please have it.

Shri Mataji: Tomorrow if Hitler comes and gives me a challenge, "Give me realisation" – I cannot.

Mr Malhotra: I will tell you my own case. I met, in ’82 I met Mataji in one of the – in Delhi. In one of the Rotary district conferences. I had never met her before. And I was to leave for my bypass surgery. I mean it was set. Doctor Modi, Doctor Dorai, Doctor Grant; these were the three cardiologists who were attending on me. Jaslok Hospital had taken my, all my papers whatever they wanted, and they had put me to Houston to go for my bypass surgery. On 15 th January, my operation was fixed in 1982. And in that year there was a lot of winters, so I got it postponed to 15 th February.

On 17 th January I was in Delhi and I attended this Rotary district conference where Shri Mataji was the speaker. The secondary plenary session in the Rotary conference which was inaugurated by Zail Singh.

Shri Mataji: They were all scientists there.

Mr Malhotra: And on that day I met Her, and She spoke about this subject of Kundalini awakening. And as a critical mind, I thought it is not possible to avoid any surgery. But friends, I am telling you that I met Her in Pune after five days. And in one sitting, I was completely cured to that extent that my papers; the previous papers were seen by the top cardiologists – Doctor Goyal, Doctor Nathulalbhai Shah and all other cardiologists. They said these papers are not yours. The previous papers are not yours.

This is, this is an experience. Can anyone prove this?

Shri Mataji: And so many others. You tell them. Mrs Patdar. And your friends. You tell them.

Mr Malhotra: Rahul Bajaj. He got an attack in Delhi. He knew my case, phones me from Delhi. "Bhaisaab, I would like to meet Mataji". And luckily I do not know, how Mataji came on that day, to Bombay from London. She was on her way to Australia or someplace.

Shri Mataji: That is “purva punya” (past good karma).

Mr Malhotra: I just took him there and Mataji saw, and Mataji said you are cured. And he said, “No, I will still go to America and get myself tested." But he got checked up and was told, “Go, no need of any operation”.

Shri Mataji: But he was very angry. He was very angry with him.

Mr Malhotra: Yes.

Shri Mataji: He was sent to these Jaslok people.

Mr Malhotra: I will now tell you another case. My cousin in Delhi; now he has not even met Mataji. Three years before, I was in Delhi and he had a severe heart attack. And he is you know, working in a government office. And he has a meagre salary of twelve hundred-fifteen hundred rupees. He was asked to go for this bypass surgery. I was not knowing; I was in Delhi and they said, could you possibly assist him in some funds – thirty-forty thousand rupees. He is in need. I said I do not mind. Batra Hospital – suffering. But then I went to him and said, "Ved, do you really want to go for operation? You know my case". He said, "I have heard but I do not know what it is". I said I can explain. I explained to him what it is. It took about half an hour to explain to him my case. I told him, "Mataji is not here. But you will have to come to the centre. Because Mataji is very angry with me, you know I take all the patients to Her. And She says, "Why the hell you bring patients to Me? You give them realisation. You see, you have got the realisation; you give them realisation.”

[Mother is laughing].

But you see, I cannot see a person is a misery. And I feel my abundant duty – I know, Ma will be annoyed with me. I will take her annoyance; I will even take that brunt. But I will see somebody who is in real misery and if he could be taken to Mataji and if he could be cured, it will be all right. This boy Ved Malhotra who is in Delhi, I asked him to come to Talwar Nursing Home. Doctor Talwar – is one of the biggest nursing homes in Delhi. That Doctor Talwar is the devotee of Mataji. He became devotee because with experience. He was getting blind and he was cured. This – Doctor Talwar Nursing Home – I asked him to come at five-thirty; I will also be there, and I will put you under the charge of Doctor Talwar. He will give you the Sahaja Yoga.

When I reached at six o clock, I came to know Mr Ved Malhotra has again got an attack and again he is admitted in the Institute of Medical Sciences. I asked Doctor Talwar what is to be done. He said – you must have, you see when you will know more about Sahaja Yoga, you will know that the person sitting over here can experience what the other person can have, the condition. He said “No, it is an attack, but he will be all right. He will come back; he will come around and we will see to it that he is attended here properly”.

After seven days, this man was discharged from the hospital. I went to him in the hospital, in the Institute. I said, "Wait, please go to Doctor Talwar and will you please?". Now, this is an experience and who can prove it. If you go to Ved Malhotra, he can prove it. He has saved his fifty thousand, he is cheerful, he is happy, hale, hearty. He is writing to me, "When Mataji is coming, please tell me, I only want to have Her blessings, that is all".

Because, without even Her presence, when I am sitting before Her, before Her photograph, I got my realisation. These are experiences, not one but hundreds I can narrate. At least, one of the judges, I took Her at a breakfast table. She came for breakfast at my home. One of the judges in Pune, he had completely gone deaf. I said, Mataji, please – because he was daily meeting me in the morning, at the swimming pool. I said come there. He came there and Mataji just put her hand like this on the judge saying, he keeps hearing a lot of wrong things that is why his ears have stopped working. She was just talking normally with us and everything. And after she removes her hand she says, “Judgesaab, can you hear?”. He was stunned, spellbound.

These are experiences, gentlemen. These are all experiences in Sahaja Yoga. Not one, but hundreds could be explained. This is what I am telling you; it is my own self-experience. I am now working eighteen to twenty hours a day. But till 1982 when I met Mataji, I was having sixteen to twenty tablets in a day and my working schedule was only four to six hours a day. Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji: See, now the thing is that, as he has told you, Sahaja Yoga is not only for physical health. No, not at all. You must understand this point. You see, we are concerned about physical health and we talk too much about it. But you must know that common sense also comes from Divinity. God has got lots of common sense. Those people who are not going to give light – supposing this fan is not going to work. We are not going to repair it. Any lamp which is not going to get light, why should we repair it, unnecessarily? So, there is discrimination about it.

So, some people who come to Me, most of them got all right. But as he is telling about Rahul Bajaj, his own uncle could not meet Me; tried his level best –came to London. He could not meet Me. Just could not meet Me. Then he said, “It must be my luck”. But I did not say you do not have the “layki” (worthiness). You must have the “layki”. Means you must seek.

There must be seeking in you. If you are a sadhaka, of course, I am going to work for you.

But in the villages, it has worked wonders in Indian villages. So many people have been cured. So many. You know, we do not keep the list of people. Now, he is here because he came. He said, “Mother I must tell them because they are misled”. So many people are cured. So My main interest is not to cure people at all, but to give realisation. By that their mental health improves, their physical health improves – they become dynamic.

Now you will be surprised that those people who could not do well in schools even, today have become great. Now we have two people here from America – who have become big businessmen after getting realisation. They did not know; they had no personality at all. No personality. They came to Sahaja Yoga. We have them here today; two persons.

Then, you must have heard about Rajesh Shah. When we first came to Me, he used to cry, weep and he was full of eczema. Now he is the chairman of the junior Chamber of Commerce, this boy. And he is a real Sahaja Yogi. So, he was just an ordinary boy, very much depressed because of family things and all that. Now he is so dynamic – his own uncle came to Me and asked Me, “Mother what did you do? He is so dynamic.”

[Inaudible question/about cancer].

Shri Mataji (in Marathi): Yes, a blood cancer. He is sitting right here. Makhdoom, please come forward. Come along, come along. We had two (persons) come here this time, luckily. Now see them. Are they alive or not? And do they look unhealthy to you?

Sahaja Yogi: Arun Goyal. Doctor Goyal.

Shri Mataji: Move a little. He is an architect. A very successful architect.

Arun Goyal: I am an architect. I am in Dehradun. And this was in 1985; that I was suffering from blood cancer. I had been to Tata Memorial, I went to All India, I went to Chandigarh PTI and I was diagnosed. And then my father was arranging the foreign exchange and admission there and my reports were sent there. The diagnosis was confirmed there. And they said all right, come over.

I had twenty-three blood transfusions in about three months’ time. My haemoglobin came down to as low as 5.5. My platelets dropped down to 10,000. Like even if you prick a needle, the blood will not stop coming out. It will continue. So I was kept in a very intensive care unit. No visitors were allowed to meet me. Because I was prone to infection.

Then suddenly, one English lady, one Scottish lady – she was a Sahaja Yogini.

Shri Mataji: She is English. Linda.

Arun Goyal: She was in Dehradun. She came to know of me through a friend of mine. And I was in Delhi at that time. She came to Delhi. She met me. And she told me about Sahaja Yoga. About the chakras, about the nadis, about Shri Mataji. And, I was a seeker perhaps, yes I was. And I heard her, and I liked it. I did not experience it then, but something within me told me innately, that Arun, this is the thing you are looking forward to.

And I had been seeking a guru who could tell me the purpose of my life. Could tell me the meaning of my life. What am I living for? What am I? I never believed in God. I was not an atheist; I believed in nature. I did not know any answers. I read a lot of books – I read the Bible, I read Gita, Koran. I could not find any answers there. They say you have to know your Self.

I said how do I know myself. I do not know. Then when she was talking to me about Shri Mataji, somehow inside, I came to know that this is a thing that is there. And I felt very nice. I felt very peaceful, I felt very beautiful within. And I started meditating. And that was the day. It was in March 1985. And every week my blood used to get examined and reports were taken. And this was sometime in July-August that I was declared absolutely fit and fine.

I never went to England. I never went to America. I never had any blood transfusions in these five months. I used to have thirty tablets a day of Android. I never took those. I had never seen Shri Mataji, I never met Shri Mataji. Just on her photograph, I meditated all the techniques that had told to me by Sahaja Yogis. With all my heart, all my soul, with complete sincerity. And there I am. And not once did I ask on the photograph from Shri Mataji to cure me. Because I was told on the very first day – Sahaja Yoga is not a curing institution. It is not a hospital. It is for your self-realisation. And once you get your self-realisation, as a by-product of your self-realisation, you get cured.

Because asking for a cure for yourself is a very selfish purpose. That is not the purpose of your life. The purpose of life is to get connected with the mains. And once I got connected, I got cured. And today I am.

Shri Mataji: Thank you.

Sahaja Yogi: Arun Goyal.

[Applause].

[From this point on, Shri Mataji is conversing almost entirely in Marathi].

Shri Mataji (in Marathi): The main thing in that is, in all the four directions, all around us Paramchaitanya is spread. You need not believe it just because I am saying it. But if your hands can feel it, then you will become dynamic because it is the source of all shakti. You get connected with it. Just like this instrument gets connected to the mains like that. Then you know your purpose, you know everything.

And now how many people he himself has cured, that should be seen first. And Linda, the girl that he spoke about just now – that Flying Foundation that Mahesh Yogi had formed, she is a woman who has escaped from there. Now you speak. This is our Makhdoom Saheb. He has won many awards for his work in construction.

Mr Makhdoom (speaking in Marathi): My name is R.D. Makhdoom. R.D. Makhdoom. I am from Miraj. In 1960, I got my degree in civil engineering from Walchund College in first class. You know that thirty years ago, to get an engineering degree with first class, that too, first-class in civil was impossible.

Shri Mataji: Tell them everything so that it is all right. Do not be shy.

Mr Makhdoom: Only four or five students in the university would get the first class. Thereafter I have done my M.Tech. in IIT that too in Structure. Anybody who has an idea knows that post-graduation in Structure is next to impossible. That too from IIT (the most prestigious engineering institution in India). Out of this, I came out extremely arrogant, full of "I know everything", no idea whether God is there or not. Second thing, I said I am from Miraj, from Krishna Ghat, Dudawat. Health-wise, I was so healthy that even jumping from the tenth floor could not affect me; I had never been to a doctor. In 82, I will have to use some English – I fainted at a site.

I had never been to a doctor; went casually to a doctor and asked him to see. The doctor looked over and said it looks like you have low blood pressure – just keep some sugar in your pocket and it will get better. But unfortunately, even keeping the sugar with me did not help. I will tell you that on 15 th May 1982 – at Muktaan Swami's Math, you might know of Muktaan Swami's Math, I was doing some work at the library there. I not only fell on the slab but had to get up twice and on the way home, up to three floors – I had to sit down at each floor. Then my family members were frightened, and they said we better go to the doctor because it looks serious.

Before that, I never had to go to the doctor or take any medicine. Or, in fact, you will be surprised, I am an educated man. But what my blood group was, I did not even know because I never felt the need for my blood group. Thereafter I got admitted to Agrawal Clinic which is in Mumbai. I got admitted and they said, let us carry out the tests on him. The tests were done – say X-Ray, blood and they noticed one thing from that the haemoglobin, the haemoglobin which is in the blood had come down to 9. They said to take bed rest and then we will see what to do.

Then the next day, it was continuously dropping. On the second day, it was down to 7. We went to ask; my oldest son's blood group was matching with mine. I took the blood (transfusion), it went to 11. Again on the third day, it came to 7. Again it started down and down. Means a stage had come when it was last checked it was 5.4. The doctor had a doubt that he should send a sample to Reptel (lab?) for computer testing and the same was confirmed. Thereupon doctor said that the medicines are ineffective, there is no use giving blood, you better go home and do what you want to do.

Then P.C. Mehta, who is connected to Jaslok, did the bone marrow testing there and he said, we will inform your doctor, you can leave. Thereafter we went to our doctor, Agrwal clinic and he said that nothing is possible further, you can go home. Think about it, my weight at one point was 75 (kgs), when I was admitted it was down to 54 (kgs). Haemoglobin, I imagine, doctors says for a healthy man should be 13, between 11 and 13, it went up to 5.4. Means for a man in construction, it was difficult to even climb up anywhere. In this situation a man loses hope, what can one do?

What I want to say, I mentioned my degree, that I did not have much belief in God. Then I thought what should I do now, there is no doctor for this, it is of no use. Then in our group, there is a relative named Patil, who was a devotee of Shri Mataji for the past five-six years. He thought that let me take him to the centre one day; given the treatment. Just will not believe it. I am not refusing to show my papers, in fact, I have them with to show you. That is three months, my weight which was 54 went to 65 and today I weigh 76 kgs. Haemoglobin I did not test now, but when I tested after six months, it was 11.8. I believe, or rather I am confident that it should be now over 13 or 14.

So what I want to say, what my goal is, is that whatever happens, it is not mere faith. Faith means, we have faith; but unlike others, it is not blind faith.

Shri Mataji: “Dolas” (with open eyes).

Mr Makhdoom: Dolas. Today I am well, I say this with pride – I am not trying to get some profit out of this. The main benefit was that the thread of my life which was broken, it continued once again. That is my faith, the faith that I have in Shri Mataji is with my eyes open; it is not blind faith. The other thing I wish to say is that if you say, take this person and give him self-realisation. If he is not in that state, he has no desire, he has no faith – then what can one do? That I should get better, that I should get the experience; that inner tumult should be there. If there is no seeking how can he be a seeker? You do not want to do any sadhana, take any effort, then how can you become a seeker?

You take more effort into work – you go to work eight hours a day. Without doing any work if you want to get benefitted how will it happen?

[Inaudible exchange between Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis].

Shri Mataji: That is for later. Not now. Please speak further. First, you have to get a self-realisation. Then it is easy. First, you have to get a self-realisation.

Mr Makhdoom: My objective in saying is.

Shri Mataji: First it is easy. Getting self-realisation is easy. Then you have to do sadhana to reach the goal. It is not so difficult. Five minutes in the morning and ten in the evening. Nothing special. Now to talk about him – when he first came and I saw him, it was, what will happen to him now. His face was red and purple. And his whole body looked like he was just going to collapse. When I first saw him I thought about how it was to be done. But he had inner faith. He was like that.

Because he says he was arrogant, but so many people are arrogant these days. From where does arrogance come? From ignorance. An ignorant person is arrogant. Arrogance is not a problem. But he has faith within. So the Kundalini correctly recognises how each man is. She does not rise within everyone. In some people, she does not rise at all.

I am happy you have come. This is another Doctor Regis who has come. Please be seated. Sit down, sit down, sit down.

[Inaudible question from a journalist].

Shri Mataji: He is a blatant liar. Absolutely a great liar. In 1970, I told everyone. Was anybody ready to listen? You tell Me. No cure, he has not cured a single person. Show one doctor's certificate. Instead, those who went to him, came to Me bringing heart problems. They are here, he is here, Mr Mehtani. He had a heart attack four times because of that man.

[Inaudible question from a journalist].

Shri Mataji: No, no, I will tell you. That too, that man had Kundalini awakening. Now I will speak on another point. Now whatever has happened has been about health. Yes, please speak.

[Inaudible question from a journalist].

Shri Mataji: Now that is how it has happened. I will tell you. They have their papers with them. Now they look well, they were told they were going to die within eight days. The doctor had told them that your condition is such that, listen – those are their papers. They have their papers; you come and see and then see how they are now. Now they do not have any problem.

See the papers of this gentleman also. If I keep doing this, then the work of Kundalini awakening – are you going to do that?

Sahaja Yogi: Look here, Sir – the doctors with us, they have done the work, as said earlier. Dr Chugh who is there has worked in Irwin College. In the hospital.

Shri Mataji: Big doctors.

Sahaja Yogi: And these other studies are interesting studies. I suggest that you should also see those.

Shri Mataji: What I feel is, that there is a lot of such work done. They should come, meet the doctors, work hard and diligently. What are we going to gain by lying? Because we do not take any money. Doctors also take money. We have cured people without taking a single pie, at least you must realize this.

[Inaudible question by journalist].

Shri Mataji: No. The thing is, that you do not make a judgement now. If you ask Me, then you are, you are a seeker. But you do not know that. But your Kundalini knows because she is your Mother. It is like a tape record of you. She knows all about you – whether you are a true seeker, what all you have done, everything she knows. And she is desirous for your self-realisation, absolutely desirous, and she is sitting. You all have your own individual Kundalini. And what your state is, she knows so you should absolutely not make a judgement about yourself. Let her do.

The meaning of a true seeker cannot be said based on external appearance. But like he is saying – you know, there was one gentleman; we went to Singapore and he said this man is very evil, this, that – I said let Me see. Muslim. He got self-realisation in an instant. Then what to do? He got it.

[Inaudible question by a journalist asking about the scientific definition].

Shri Mataji: The scientific form of it is, that if you know about the parasympathetic nervous system. This is the subtle form of the parasympathetic nervous system. We say about the parasympathetic nervous system that in this parasympathetic nervous system, the Sushumna Nadi within it starts working.

And this Kundalini, which is there, is an energy in a triangular shape. Till the time she does not get awakened, she is in a dormant state; doctors also cannot see her so how can you? And if they have to see something they will need a microscope. A microscope is required. Similarly, if you want to experience something then you need Atma sakshatkar otherwise you will not feel anything. Will, you cut the medulla oblongata at the spine? Will, you cut the chakras and see them for yourself? From a medical point of view, everything has to be dissected and you will still not see it. Because it is energy. Energy cannot be seen. It is there but cannot be seen.

That is why it cannot be seen. Science has not yet reached there. We have gone further than science.

[Inaudible question from a journalist about scientists].

Shri Mataji: No, no there are plenty. Do not say that. I just named Jung to you. And the point where they have reached, they have been getting a little closer to where we are. Doctor Mishra is there now. He has discovered something. Like this, they are getting a little closer. The advanced things that we are talking about, I would say, you do not put your attention into it. I would say first put the attention in the present.

What are the problems in this country? There are some, isn't it? We have to do some good for our country, yes or no? This is a question to the press.

[Inaudible].

Shri Mataji: The world will be get done, but first let the country get done. Now to fix the country let us see what the problems are. In that, the health of the people is not all right. Agreed. Our society is in disarray. Casteism has spread. There are many kinds of things. For all these, the solution is Sahaja Yoga. For all these, the solution is Sahaja Yoga. Means there will be a lot of benefit to society.

Now the second problem – we have a very big issue regarding agriculture. Now you will be surprised we have Doctor Hamid here, who is a U.N. advisor for agriculture. He has done a lot of research on agriculture. We have Doctor Sanghvi, who has not come here today – he won the title "Star of India" because he developed one type of wheat. Now the day before; I do experiments, I conduct some experiments in my house. Means just Sahaja Yogis giving vibrations. Then, first, we took some non-hybrid seeds of sunflowers. We gave vibrations to the non-hybrid seeds. It became a very big sunflower. Over two feet. And there was a lot of oil extracted from it.

Now, this is one thing. Next, rice. Now they said basmati cannot grow in Pune. OK, I will show you just now. Now see this, he himself has done some experiments. See this. See the difference.

Sahaja Yogi: We have brought the projector.

Shri Mataji: No, there may not be time left now. Let them see. Now, whatever we have done, this is what he has brought it. Now they are taking so much effort, poor things. And here we have purchased some land, they are ready to come and stay here. They feel that if agriculture increases in India it will be good. Now the next thing I say.

Sahaja Yogi: We can show slides afterwards.

Shri Mataji: If they want it, all right? So you can keep it up there. You can keep it. I will show. Now it has come in time otherwise how could we know that was going to be such an attack upon us. But we are in readiness.

Now the next thing, they said basmati rice cannot be produced here. I said, why not – it can. Gave vibrations. After giving vibrations you will be surprised that in one acre we planted 60 kgs and there was 1400 kg produced. And it is such basmati rice that the Rahuri people who came to see said, “Ma, we have never seen such rice”. They gave a certificate.

[Inaudible question/name of the rice variety].

Shri Mataji: Chaitanya. It was named Chaitanya. The chaitanya was flowing from My hand; it will flow through you. If you get self-realisation, it will flow through you as well. And in that I only gave chaitanya. And that made such a difference. And non-hybrid. We used non-hybrid seeds on top on that.

[Inaudible question].

Shri Mataji: What? All right you can take it from Me now. And the seeds we got from that, there was a drought here and no one was ready to take them. What is this situation, I did not understand. Now they had raised a donation (for seeds), they just sent it back to Me.

[Inaudible question about patients].

Shri Mataji: There is something like that. In a few days, I feel that not everyone will come to Sahaja Yoga. We have worked for eighteen years and after that how many people have come to Sahaja Yoga? Let the doctors be there for the rest. They will not come because of arrogance. They think no end of themselves. Their heads will not turn this way. It will just not go into their heads.

I will tell you this is an extraordinary thing; I am doing Sahaja Yoga for eighteen years now.

[Inaudible question/difference between Raja Yoga and Sahaja Yoga].

Shri Mataji: In what? There is no difference in that. In a way there is. I will tell you.

In Raja Yoga what happens is when your Kundalini rises there are bandhas formed within you. Means the Kundalini has to be contained, no? Means like you start a car then all the parts of the car start working, the events that take place. Such as when the Kundalini reaches the Vishuddhi, then kechari, the tongue gets pulled back a little. It is not very noticeable, but it happens.

But what these people do, in the modern Raja Yoga; now I had gone to Los Angeles – there they had cut people’s tongues. Oh, some old members – there was one doctor from our Nagpur, poor thing. He could not talk. He wrote it down that I did Raja Yoga. Tongues were cut so that they could be taken to the back of the throat. Why – they say to do kechari.

Means, if your car is not running and you start destroying the tire, will it run? This is the modern Raja Yoga. Similarly, today's Hatha Yoga is also modern. Means there is no system to it. Just anyone starts doing it. For each type of exercise, there is some meaning. And after observing that, it should be determined what should be done and where. Now if there is a liver patient and you tell him to do something complicated for the stomach, his problem will double. In fact, Hatha Yoga is not at all good for a liver patient. Ha-tha. Ha-tha Yoga is described in Patanjali. Means Moon channel and Sun channel both are described. Just one is not described. They work only on the Sun channel means "prana" (breath).

[Inaudible question by journalist].

Shri Mataji: True (ones)? If I tell someone’s name they are [inaudible/consumed?]. I feel very sad.

[Inaudible question or comment by a journalist on the same subject].

Shri Mataji: At this time, there is no one in the market. There is no one in the market.

[Inaudible question/ about Rajneesh].

Shri Mataji: Whatever can be said is not enough. Why are you asking Me to talk about this man? All filth. What?

[Inaudible question].

Shri Mataji: What is he saying?

[Inaudible question/ about Andhashraddha Nirmulan].

Shri Mataji: Oh, they are blind themselves. Themselves they are blind. They have just taken a stick in their hands and are running amok hitting everyone. Now when the hand is raised upon Me, they will be exposed. They did to the others that we're right because they were in the wrong. But if they raise their hands against Me, then we will have to expose them.

[Inaudible question/ about objections to Andhashraddha Nirmulan].

Shri Mataji: You, Andhashraddha Nirmulan, are you from there? No. Then what I am saying is that they write to Me. They should write a letter. They have not written a single letter, nothing. I will tell you we had a program here yesterday and they immediately published about it. In the paper. Just openly, did not even ask us or anything.

[Inaudible question/ about why the letter is required].

Shri Mataji: If they write to us, we will act. You know, forget three months, spend three hours with that man Manav.

[Inaudible questions].

Shri Mataji: Yes, but they have to see My time also. I am a busy woman. I am not just sitting and conducting some objectionable activities.

Mr Malhotra: We have never paid for any treatment. I have never paid Her for my treatments, except for my respect and love that is all.

[Inaudible, a chorus of voices].

Shri Mataji: No, no he did not understand. Look here, I will tell you. Now if just randomly someone keeps challenging Me, I should have the time, I will give the time. But My time is very limited now. Because I am leaving tomorrow morning. Tomorrow morning I am going to Brahmapuri, from there I am going to Satara and after that Kolhapur, Ganpatipule, then Mumbai. And from Mumbai, I am going to Australia. So I do not have time now.

But if you take an appointment for later, I will give the time. But these people are here. What I am saying is that you come to the centre and meet everyone. Do you know what else he did, shall I tell you the truth? I have to tell this.

Someone: Please tell.

Shri Mataji: Last time, I had a program in Mumbai. So in Mumbai, there were twelve thousand people in DeSilva (a school). All right. They have 20, 25 people. Not many. These 20, 25 persons had come and were sitting at the back. I did not have any idea. We have two types of books – one for Sahaja Yogis and the other for everyone else, to be sold. So one gentleman was sitting with the books at one place, which was to be distributed.

So this Manav Saheb came from the back and would keep clicking My photo every now and then. So they told him, why are you taking the photos now, let Mataji speak. But he kept on taking the photos. Finally, I told him – you please wait, let Me finish My speech and then you can take the photos. Just forcing for no reason. I told him, please sit quietly for a little while, Then he sat down.

And he told these people a lie that, “I am a journalist, I am this, I am that”. Just kept on telling lies. No objection to that even if he was lying. Now the people who were sitting at the back, what they had I do not know. But this gentleman brought one of the books in his hand. So these people asked him where did you get this book. So he said, I got it at the back.

So these people went to the back and said that this book is for Sahaja Yogis, do not give it to non-Sahaja Yogis. Why did you give it to that man? So he (the bookseller) said that it was just snatched from him. So at that time, whatever took place got over. But then. Amrute who was sitting there to sell the books – suddenly 20-25 people rushed upon him. They grabbed all his books, tore all My photographs and even tore his shirt and roughed him up. Within eight days that man died. Understood? In eight days that man died.

But we did not have any proof. Because it was completed by then. One man phoned Me, but I will not disclose the name. Another sent Me an anonymous letter. Then after that, I left for London. After I went to London, everyone here was without support. But this story is true. This is how it happened.

Now, this is a criminal issue now, you tell Me. Now how did that man pass away from heart trouble, how happened to him. These people indulge in such things. What benefit was achieved? What I am saying is that if you have to throw a challenge, or anything else, come and meet Me and talk to Me, have a discussion with Me.

They came to Me; their tape recorder was broken. We got a tape recorder for them. There were no tapes, we got tapes. For three hours I sat and explained, more than even what I am telling you. After they left I said, this is “pouring water on an upturned pot” (meaning useless). And I was happy that if they are actually doing such work, it is good. But till now there is no intellect behind it. That is why I explained it to them. But their Kundalini will not rise at all, what can I do? It does not rise at all what can I do? The problem is My hands started painting; My hands ached.

[Inaudible comment/challenge]

Shri Mataji: My saying is, what right does each and every person have to come and challenge?

Someone: What are your (anybody’s) rights?

Shri Mataji: What is their right to challenge Me?

[Inaudible/chorus of voices agreeing].

Shri Mataji: Have I caused any harm to you? You challenge Me if I have harmed you in any way.

[Inaudible].

Mr Malhotra: Please tell me, yes.

[Inaudible/question about exploiting].

Shri Mataji: What exploit? What exploitation?

Mr Malhotra: What exploiting? She is not charging money for anything.

Shri Mataji: I will tell you. I am not fighting for elections. By God’s Grace, I am from a wealthy family. My husband is also wealthy. He has a very large salary. And fourteen countries have bestowed awards on him. And the country of England has now decided to give him an award, a very big award will be conferred on him. In our country, there is no other person who has won so many awards, internationally. Understood?

And he has received two doctorates – in England and here. And I am his wife. I have no lack of anything. Wherever we go, people surround Me, the way people are in attendance around a Prime Minister, that is My situation when he is with Me. In spite of all this, I am visiting all these wild and remote places, I am struggling here, and you keep giving me challenges, do you have any brains or not? Instead of seeing all the work that I am doing, they are after Me with no holds barred.

The reason for this is our Maharashtrian brain. Maharashtrian brain. Inquisitive and pulling everyone down. We keep pulling everyone down.

[A journalist is interrupting].

Shri Mataji: I will tell a joke, will tell you a joke. There in America, a Maharashtrian man from America told Me. That some scorpions came to America for an exhibition. On all the scorpions, they had come from India – there were lids on all the scorpions. Only one did not have. So when asked why, the response was that this is a collection of Maharashtrian scorpions. They keep pulling each other down so how is any scorpion going to come up?

[Inaudible question by journalist].

Shri Mataji: Now, I am from your Maharashtra. I am like you. I teach everyone the Marathi language. Did you listen to the song yesterday of these people? Come and listen today. Your – they sing the jogwa, they sing the powada. They, ah, Aigiri Nandini is from where? Which book of Sri Shankaracharya? Which book is it from?

Aigiri Nandini. It is such a difficult shloka. They recite it so clearly. Even you cannot utter it so clearly, as they recite it. I teach them all the Marathi language. After doing all this, when I come to the Marathi land, everyone has garlanded Me. “Wah, wah, wah, wah, what a wonderful thing”.

[Inaudible question by journalist].

Shri Mataji: Oh, that too, in Maharashtra especially.

[Laughter all around].

Journalist: Do You have faith in palmistry?

Shri Mataji: Yes and no. It is useless. After coming to Sahaja Yoga it has no effect. It has, before coming (here). After that nothing happens.

Journalist: Among lakhs of people, Your hand is different.

Shri Mataji: He is clever. They have drawn My Kundali (horoscope) also.

Journalist: Yes, we have seen it.

Shri Mataji: They have drawn in. And they have published it in Krishnamurthy style in Madras. There is so much excitement in Madras. But it is not possible in Maharashtra. Not possible. We are just inquisitive.

Mr Malhotra: I tell you it is all experience. [Inaudible].

[Inaudible question from journalist/open mind].

Shri Mataji: Open mind does not mean it is one-sided only. Receptivity should be there, a little at least. Not just convexity all the time. There should be some reception. Otherwise what will be gained? If you are not willing to receive at all then what can be done? Like pouring water on an upturned pot.

[Inaudible question from journalist/about Manav].

Shri Mataji: No, he has done Me one favour. I accept that he has done Me one favour that because of him, you all came here, and I could explain everything. This I accept.

[Laughter and applause].

Shri Mataji: Now write it all properly. This is all from Maharashtra, the legacy of Maharashtra. All right? And there is no language like the Marathi language. I teach them all Marathi there and what is this that you are writing here?

[Pause, inaudible side conversations].

Mr. Malhotra: [Inaudible]. Senior most journalist.

Shri Mataji: Now write it appropriately. Yes? Nice, nice. Ramadas Swami has said, “Maratha tituka melvava” (the Marathi people should unite), but where are those Marathas gone?

Sahaja Yogi: There will be a slideshow by Doctor Hamid where he will show the results of agriculture output.

[Conversation between Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis. Journalists have started assembling closer to Mother’s seat].

Shri Mataji: Now write it a little strongly. This should not be done. Someone from our country is coming [inaudible].

Sahaja Yogi: Now, there will be a slideshow by Doctor Hamid on his experiments with agriculture. That will be shown now. It is a slideshow. Slide show. Request everyone to wait.

[Inaudible question by journalist].

Shri Mataji: Oh there are so many “labaad” (cunning) people in this world, horribly cunning people. And in our Hindustan, cunningness seems to be religion. That is also eradicated by Sahaja Yoga to tell you. All sorts of cunning go away.

[Inaudible conversations. Mataji is also talking to a Sahaja Yogi].

Shri Mataji: It is going well but after going there he did something. That boy is a little odd. [Inaudible], sent him abroad. Even after going there he is troubling others.

[Inaudible comments by Sahaja Yogi].

Shri Mataji: She did not get self-realisation or anything. He came and we put him in Sahaja Yoga. We thought he should have better days so sent him to Australia. Even there he is giving trouble.

Sahaja Yogi: He had a second marriage there.

Shri Mataji: There? I have not been informed yet. He is up to all this kind of business there. He has cut my nose to such an extent, what can I tell you. Now, what can a Mother do to resolve this?

Journalist: [Inaudible]. I had published Your decision to [inaudible].

Shri Mataji: Nice.

Mr Malhotra: What paper is this?

Shri Mataji: Rashtra Tej (Light of the Nation). It is a nice name, Rashtra Tej.

I feel so much about Maharashtra. Otherwise, if I go to Russia right now, I can work on thousands of people. All the people there are just waiting. But I Myself do not know, what there is here. But people should have some brains, what do you say, to at least think?

(To a journalist): So how are you; you have seen My hand?

[Inaudible reply].

Shri Mataji: No, he drew up my Kundali (horoscope) also. My birth year is 1923.

Journalist: This Kundalini awakening is considered to be very rare.

Shri Mataji: Yes, that is right. Agree. 100 per cent.

Journalist: [Inaudible/reference to the Upanishads].

Shri Mataji: Absolutely correct. It is correct. Absolutely 100%.

Journalist: The how is it that You give awakening to so many people?

Shri Mataji (to Sahaja Yogis): Give him realisation. From behind.

[Sahaja Yogis are giving realisation to the journalists].

Shri Mataji: Done, done. Do not have doubts. It is done, no? Do not question. This is beyond intellect. If you doubt, then you are down to the level of intellect. Now see if it is coming from his head.

Keep your eyes open. I am sitting here so eyes should be kept open. Yes, done. They are realised. Now keep your neck down and put your left hand like this. From the brahmarandra here, a coolness will come. From your own brahmarandra. [Inaudible] is coming, from many. Yes. Yes. Done. It is coming, no? Now put your right hand towards Me. Keep left hand. Now the right hand. Means, change the hand and see. Yes, now see this.

Done. I would be done for everyone today if they had asked. Now, look at Me in nirvicharita. Becoming completely nirvichar. See, it has happened. You have it now. Totally relaxed. Totally relaxed.

But now you can say it is the sprouting of the seed. Now they will become trees.

When I went to Gujrat, there all the journalists organised a conference. And (said), first give us realisation and then we will talk. Everyone got realisation. It was advertised everywhere there was a lot done.

Today seems to be an auspicious day, My namaskar to all journalists. Now it will be the true witness state. Now you will be truly in witness state. Earlier it was just biased. Now you will write about the real truth. And then a man develops so much faith in it. There is no fear of anything. They will write only what is true.

Journalist: No, we are not biased. Professionally, we ask questions. Sometimes it is difficult, sometimes you may not like it. We are doing it as a duty.

Shri Mataji: No, but what I am saying is; that I agree. But the thing is, there is no judgement to it. No judgement. If anybody gives any type of report, we accept it. That is what it is. But we are not there in person.

But now what happens is that we understand immediately. That this man is not right, he is doing something wrong. There is something wrong. Whatever we write, it will create some problem. There is complete, total discretion. And the Kundalini will work through your hands.

Now all of them here who are giving realisation. See here, he is an Irani. And people have come from different places. That is Doctor Spiro who has come from England, this our Regis, he is a Doctor of Science there. All of them are big scientists, they are physicists.

All right. Felt very happy to meet everyone. Now keep some face of Maharashtra.

Journalist: Why do you say that we do not understand?

Shri Mataji: (Laughs) I will tell you why.

Journalist: Yesterday also you massively criticised the newspapers. You criticised Sham Manav and then the newspapers also. Now what happens with us is that we never write anything from one side only.

Shri Mataji: Please listen to Me.

Journalist: If someone publishes something, we are compelled to publish it also. [Inaudible] publish it.

Shri Mataji: But why did you not ask us? But why did you publish it without asking us?

Journalist: He gave a challenge. Once he gave a challenge, we are going to publish it.

Shri Mataji: Then you will give anyone a challenge. My view is that why did you publish it without asking us first? You should ask us, under all fairness. Is that so or not? Under all fairness, you should have asked us first. Without asking us, it was published just at that time.

Now see how many consequences there were. First of all, when the police came to know, they came running. Because there could be violence. So you wasted the energy of all those police. Agreed? Now after that many – last year, many people had turned up – many people got scared and did not come. Means they also could not benefit.

Now have you understood. Now, this, if it was asked to Me, I would have told you and it would have been all right. That is why I criticised. Nothing else. You have to take responsibility. And you have such a great responsibility as no one else. Because you have the rule everywhere. To write anything about anyone.

All right, you write about everyone, what is the objection if I criticise? This is a Mother who is talking.

Journalist: No,

Shri Mataji: Have you given out the chocolates?

Sahaja Yogis: Yes, we have distributed to everyone.

Shri Mataji: They have got chocolates for all of you.

Sahaja Yogi: “God bola” (Talk sweetly). Take the chocolates and talk sweetly. (Laughter).

Shri Mataji: These are all the games of love. There is nothing to fight about. Nothing to quarrel. This is for your benevolence. We are striving for the benevolence of everything. What is there to fight about in that? For everyone’s benevolence. Tomorrow if something happens to you, we will stand behind you.

But Akkalkot (Swami) is very great. Do not have doubts about him. He is very great. Only those people say that let Mataji only do all these things; we are not going to do it. Because it needs a Mother only. Who else is going to work so hard? Every night I sleep at 3 am and get up at 4 am. That is work every day.

Mr Malhotra: every day She is awake till 4 am. Anyone who comes they are worked upon, cannot let anyone go just like that. So what is the need for the challenge? Why? Anyone on the street can come up and say I will challenge you.

Shri Mataji: This is a sign of mental illness and of authority. What is your right to challenge? I them challenge Myself – I will give four lakh rupees if they can prove what I am saying is false. Four lakh.

But the thing to mention is, that when I spoke in Marathi it was all right. But abroad they felt extremely bad about it. They were sad. Because they filled with so much faith and love for Me within themselves. And they do not understand that - this woman who got the Peace, this woman, Madam Teresa who is Mother Teresa. She just converts people and she has been given all this. All the money she has taken from the people of Calcutta. And she brings in these sick people and converts them and she is glorified all around.

Journalist: Everyone goes to inquire about her health.

Shri Mataji: What? Yes. And these foreigners feel that why so much for this woman and the one who is doing the real work is Me. Nothing about Me. Nobody has thought for Me. So there has to be something about My work now.

Journalist: All this you are doing is ordained by Ishwara.

Shri Mataji: What?

Journalist: All this work you are doing must be ordained by Ishwara.

Shri Mataji: All ordained by Ishwara.

Journalist: Then who gets the credit for all this work, God or You?

Shri Mataji: To Ishwara. Why Me? Does anybody give credit to the mother? All credit is given to the father.

Journalist: (Laughing) All to the father.

Shri Mataji: Even though the mother gives birth, goes through all hardships, even then we fight only with her. Agree, no? Nobody gives credit to the mother. But when the mother is gone, then it is understood, what the mother is. Before that, it does not dawn. Then it feels that life is gone.

Journalist: Namaskar (Farewell).

Shri Mataji: Namaskar. Infinite Blessings to All. All of you come today evening and bring others with you.

[Sahaja Yogi reminds of slides, but everyone is leaving now].

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji some slides have to be shown. Of Doctor Hamid. We have to show Doctor Hamid’s slides.

Shri Mataji: Now it is all done no? Show them in Ganpatipule.

Sahaja Yogi: Bombay also we have a press conference.

[Shri Mataji is reminding departing journalists to come to the centre].

[End of recording].