Evening at Ashram and Interview 1987-05-04
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
4 May 1987
Interview
Brisbane (Australia)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) - Reviewed
Evening at Ashram and Interview, Brisbane, Australia 04-05-1987
Shri Mataji: ... is very money-oriented and sometimes it becomes very crude also about it. Like I went to Boston and there they asked Me a question, ‘How many Rolls Royces She has?’ [Shri Mataji laughs] How many Rolls Royces, just think of that. I didn’t know what to say. [unclear. Break in recording]
Yes, they have gone through Jung, good idea: started with Jung. I addressed them, when I was in New York. They will be very happy to have another program with Me. But I told them where Jung went wrong and why he couldn’t achieve much in his lifetime. But, the people are, at large, very stupid in America. Extremely stupid. I mean they... I talked to them about Jung and all the mistakes he must have committed and – a very deep subject. Then the chairman, an old man of eighty years, wanted to see Me personally. I said, all right, he came along and then what he says to Me, most surprisingly, he says he has a keep, and he had this keep for many years. [Yogi: A keep?] He – this gentleman. He never told his wife and now the wife is dead. Now, this keep is still not so old as I am, and now she wants to go away with another man. That’s his problem, and how can I help him. I mean, what to do, I said. [Yogi: This eighty-year-old man.] How far could [unclear, Shri Mataji laughing] or what to do with him. Such a stupid question from an eighty-year-old man [unclear, Shri Mataji laughing] I said, ‘Sir I’m sorry, can’t help you.’ Really, what a question to ask, that he had a keep and the keep is leaving him, and his wife is dead now and he never told his wife. I said, ‘Such a stupid thing for an eighty-year-old man to say.’ When he went away, I was laughing and laughing, they said, ‘Why are you laughing?’ I said, ‘Now what should I do, you see, this gentleman comes to Me serious situation. I couldn’t keep My seriousness. [speaks Hindi aside]
[Shri Mataji is reading a booklet called ‘Behold the Mother’] In Rome or in Milano, they started calling Me the great Mother, the Grande... Yes. There, it’s tremendous. Very well done, this should attract their attention. But, I mean, for Americans I don’t know how you should start. From their keeps onwards, I don’t know...
What do you think of Jung here?
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know, I don’t think there is... I think a small society, but I don’t know if they are very strong or not. Shri Mataji, the Jungians meet at the Theosophical Society. They meet at the Theosophical Society. So I don’t think there is many of them, I don’t think they have their own rooms as such, must be a small group.
Shri Mataji: This Theosophical Society – baba. [still reading the booklet] But you haven’t given the places where She will be, and that will be in the newspaper, I think.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, this was the poster we handed with it, Shri Mataji. [many long pauses while Shri Mataji continues reading]
Shri Mataji: Good, very straightforward, very straightforward. That will appeal to Australians, because Australians are very straightforward people.
Written, ‘elusive union’, [Yogi repeats: Elusive.] Elusive is the word? There’s: ‘Still see that elusive union’. Theek hai? [Okay?]
Sahaja Yogi: Elusive, elusive means, hard to grasp.
Another Yogi: Is it ‘e’? Is it with an ‘e’? Elusive?
Shri Mataji: Theek hai?
Another Yogi: ‘E’, is it with an ‘e’?
Third Yogi: Yes, it’s difficult to get to...
Sahaja Yogi: Difficult to grasp.
Third Yogi: Till now use it...
Sahaja Yogi: Till now, till now.
Shri Mataji: Elusive means... [Hindi] This one is very nice, I mean, you have written so much that, to digest this is going to be difficult. But, one point could have been that, this is the age of our ascent. [Yogi repeats: Age of ascent.] This is the age of our ascent, is our evolution. You see, that sounds very scientific also, because we have reached the human stage, but then we have to ascend after that. And what is... there must be something. So, it’s one of those things that may appeal to the scientist, that’s the point.
Done so well, who is this one, Stan Bostock?
Sahaja Yogi: He’s fictitious, Mother. He doesn’t exist. It was written by Brian Bell.
Shri Mataji: This gentleman came to see Me?
Sahaja Yogi: No, no, it’s made up, Shri Mataji, to get the press interested.
Shri Mataji: He’s done it. But Brian Bell has not been into My house. How has he described it so well?
Sahaja Yogi: Brian Bell, Shri Mataji, and Ian Hanky made the story up.
Shri Mataji: Ah!
Sahaja Yogi: In America somewhere it’s too hard to check, so it’s..., helps.
Shri Mataji: He never came to London, did he?
Sahaja Yogi: Brian Bell did, I think,
Another Yogi: Okay no, Brian Bell? [Another Yogi: I think he has been.] The press, the press liked the article very much.
Another Yogi: I think he has been to London.... Brian Bell has been to London.
Shri Mataji: He’s been? [small discussion among Yogis whether he has or not] All this [the information] you have given?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji. It seems to work...
Shri Mataji: Poor things, they must be already having [unclear] casualty.
Sahaja Yogi: It has effect on them, and they certainly... It has effect on them Shri Mataji, they...
Shri Mataji: A big what?
Sahaja Yogi: This has an effect on the reporters, and everywhere we put it. So, this is what achieved the TV interview.
Shri Mataji: This one?
Sahaja Yogi: This, this press kit, plus we had a small video of an interview in England, I think it was. Cambridge.
Shri Mataji: Hmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Cambridge television interview. [Shri Mataji: Yes...] was given to the journalist.
Shri Mataji: Cambridge one.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: What’s that?
Sahaja Yogi: You were walking with a reporter, lady reporter...
Another Yogi: No, no a Sahaja Yogi from Cambridge, what’s his name? Jim, a Sahaja Yogi in Cambridge. [Shri Mataji: Jim yes, yes.] You were walking with him and the television filmed...
Shri Mataji: He came to see Me.
Yogi: ...You, and You gave realisation to a lady in a park. Cambridge television.
Shri Mataji: I don’t remember.
Yogi: It’s quite old, I think... in ’84.
Shri Mataji: No, there was one thing that happened, that happened in that place Middlesbrough, is that the name of the place, Middlesbrough?
Yogis: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You see, there the journalist came and they said, ‘Now supposing, who is sick and cannot come to You, what can You do for that person?’
Yogi: No, it wasn’t that one.
Shri Mataji: Not that one. That one was interesting. So they brought Me. I said, ‘ Then let Me have the photograph of the lady.’ They said, ‘She is the one, she cannot get out of her house, and she is suffering from a disease that she doesn’t want to meet anyone, she doesn’t want to go out,’ and all. I said, ‘All right, let Me see.’ So I took the photograph in My hand and just gave a bandhan, that’s all, and looked at it. And I was amazed that, I told them, ‘Don’t worry her now for some time, and wait for eight days.’ But I was amazed the way they were in a hurry, so they went to, after all that, they went to see her. And they found that she had gone out with her husband on the moors for a walk, you see; that one worked. But I don’t remember the Cambridge fellow.
Yogi: At the end of the interview, You told people to put their hands to the television set.
Shri Mataji: What happened? I can’t hear.
Yogi: At the end of the interview, on the tape that we gave the channel 7, You asked the people to hold their hands towards the television set... [Shri Mataji: All right.]... to feel the cool.
Shri Mataji: And then they felt the cool breeze?
Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Yogi: Yes. And the reporter...
Shri Mataji: But what will I do with My ears? Just now they are not all right with them [unclear] [Hindi aside] I’m tired. North America. That’s the story of North America. After a big lecture we give, yes. [laughs] I’ve given them such a detailed description, ah terrible. I mean, mental level is, I don’t know what happens, the calibre is... just stupid people. They’re all sick, sick people, the people are sick. [Hindi aside]
So we can invent stories and things, but main thing is, to reach these people. What is the best way, should find out. If they are seekers, if they are true seekers, what is the best way of reaching them. Let’s just find out, what is their problem. After all, why are they misbehaving and not coming to Sahaja Yoga. [Shri Mataji is opening a small case on Her lap]
Yogi: Shri Mataji, we’ve been having lots of phone calls...
Shri Mataji: I use this machine, because it’s so much of... this travelling has made My ears absolutely, you see, wobbly. Can hear at time, at a time I don’t. Let’s see if it’s working. [Puts something in Her right ear] It’s a funny thing. How much travelling I have done, it’s been too much. [Hindi aside. Indian Sahaja Yogi helps to put the device in Shri Mataji’s ear] Done by one doctor, so another doctor has to put it. Just trying on the right ear more, not so much in the left. Now? Now... [conversation in Hindi]
It’s better, slightly better. [Hindi] This is the better ear. [Hindi] Try in this one, see, this is meant for this ear. My one ear is all right according, [Hindi]
Try again, eh? Something funny. The amount of travelling I have done, you will be really surprised. Even you did not do with this ST buses, it was so much.
Now I’ll see, how am I hearing. It’s a little funny with them. They said you have to put it underneath this ear here first of all, on... and then push it back. First you have to push it underneath this and then push it back. You have to push it underneath this, first of all. [Indian Sahaja Yogi: Underneath that?] [Hindi]
Now, is it better? Horrible. First you travel, then you lose your hearing, then you push this in your ears. It’s a vicious circle. You have taken all that in that tape, eh? Good. So nobody will now trouble Me with travelling. That cannot be avoided. [Hindi aside]
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, we have been receiving lots of phone calls, people inquiring about the public program.
Shri Mataji: You had lots of them? Oh I see. So we’ll have a big...
Yogi: Turn out, we hope so.
Shri Mataji: You see, this is what – you should not feel disappointed. When I am there, you’ll find crowds, always. It happens also in London, you’ll be surprised. This time in London, I could not walk through. It was such a crowd. Half were standing outside, they couldn’t even hear Me. But, next time they had the meeting, only thirty people arrived. And everyone was sitting like this. [leaning back, hands behind head] What to do. They just want to hear Me all the time.
But at least, you have here ashram. They don’t have an ashram. Until the Shudy camp is done, there is going to be a big problem and till then, they are going to have a big problem, getting people around. Maybe with Shudy camp – [earpiece in left ear] I’ll do it, I’ll do it now – with the Shudy camp thing, they might work out better. If Shudy camp works out in that way. [Hindi aside]
It’s a very short one, I think David Spiro has given us. [re the earpiece. More Hindi aside as Indian Sahaja Yogi tries to adjust it] Perfect now. Better, I hope so. I hope so. Otherwise I will ask them to shout at Me. It’s better to confess. But, you see the travelling was like so continuous, you see, continuous travelling. And also, keeping awake in the night was, too much, every day, every day. Australia has done very well in Sahaja Yoga, I must say. Has done well. On the whole, if you see. On the whole. Only problem comes in with a, with the government and all those things, you see. Like in Rome, the government has accepted. [Yogi: Is that... ?] They are helping Me.
Yogi: They paid for the posters, didn’t they, in Rome? Paid for the posters?
Shri Mataji: Lots of proposals, and they are helping them a lot. So, they are people very constructive by nature. First I went to Rome, it was in a very bad condition. The economy had gone down and people didn’t know what to do, what to make and how to rise; a big problem. I said, ‘It’s all right, it will work out. Let Sahaja Yoga be settled down,’ then Sahaja Yoga started settling down. But I told them, ’Why not people make things which are not easily made in other places, handmade things, like tiles and things like that.’ And now it’s prospering. Everywhere you go, into any shop – say in Belgium or in France, anywhere – it’s only Italian goods you see, only Italian goods. Surprising they do printing, also you have ties, you have clothes, everything from there.
Yogi: Handmade goods, handmade goods, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: All handmade. That’s the thing, they took to handmade. Because they are very good at... very good at – furniture they make, beautiful furniture, at a very cheap price. Very beautiful furniture, in labour and all that, and they are doing so well. While, what we are doing is going in one line only. Now, produce with machinery, I mean, people are fed up. They don’t want to have anything of machinery. Now you can’t get anything here, now cotton is so expensive. Anything natural is so expensive.
So, ‘specially in England, you can’t get cotton clothes even for children.
Yogi: I think we have trouble here getting some cotton clothes, don’t we? They come from India, don’t they? Cotton clothes?
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear him still well, better try on this ear, maybe. I can hear, but not so well as I should hear. Mind Me... [Hindi aside] Maybe a candle might improve. It’s too much of vibrations, you see, in the ear... It’s so difficult, takes about a day to settle down.
Yogi: After puja Shri Mataji, or after travelling.
Shri Mataji: And more with the car journey I get; get more with the car journey. The whole day today we are travelling, you see.
Yogi: Whole day, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Oh yes, whole day. [Hindi aside] Such vibrations, they couldn’t hold My feet, with everything. Now, what are you doing, better stop. All operation stopped, because they will be upset, you see, to see. [Yogi is working on Shri Mataji’s ear, so She suggests a pause in the recording]
[Interview with TV journalist]
Interviewer: Can we open the interview by asking You, what is your crusade?
Shri Mataji: What is?
Interviewer: Your crusade, you purpose.
Shri Mataji: Crusade?
Yogis [repeating]: Crusade, purpose. What is your crusade?
Shri Mataji: Crusade? But there is no crusade at all.
Interviewer: But You have a purpose...
Shri Mataji: But what you can call it is a movement. You see, crusade is rather sharp, isn’t it?
Australian Yogi: It reminds me of the Wars of the Roses – crusade.
Interviewer: Or I think, well, my definition of crusade is, it means a [Yogi: spiritual revolution.] Yeah, or a purpose or some kind of motivation sort of...
Shri Mataji: Yeah. No, it’s a movement, it’s a movement, is a, the movement is, this is, a evolutionary time. This time is, people are not aware of it, but is indicated in many scriptures that, these modern times, people will be so fed up, that they will ascend. They will ascend to a higher awareness, yes. And I am quite aware of that, that those times are here and they have to ascend.
Now, only thing what I have done is – of course I knew, how one can ascend – that there is an energy within us, which is a residual energy, which is called as Kundalini. It’s a very ancient science, but also is used in the Bible, as said that: I will appear before you like tongues of flames. Also Christ has promised to send the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost reflected within us is the Kundalini. People don’t know about Holy Ghost, what is this Holy Ghost. But that’s the energy and that’s the energy of God’s desire. So it’s a pure energy, pure desire within us. And this is the desire, unless and until it is fulfilled, we cannot be satisfied with any other desire. All other desires are useless, because we want a car, then we want a house, then want this: we are never satisfied. The reason is, that’s not a pure desire. Now this resides in the triangular bone within us; what you call the sacrum. See, the word sacrum itself means sacred. It means, these Greeks must be knowing the word, so they called it sacrum. So this rises, awakened, it rises like a plumule in a seed, and pierces through six centres, which are placed in the medulla oblongata, in the back part of our head. And then, ultimately through the limbic area it pierces through the fontanel bone area. And then, you get the cool breeze coming out of your own head. You feel very relaxed and thoughtless.
Interviewer: Another question I was going to ask You, is, in relation to the East and West civilisations, is the Western civilisation enslaved by Mammon? And if you don’t know what mammon is, it’s a god of materialism.
Shri Mataji: What’s it?
Australian Yogi: Is the West enslaved by materialism? He’s asking is the West enslaved by materialism, Shri Mataji.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Is the West enslaved by materialism.
Yogis [repeating]: Makes a god of materialism. Has it made a god of materialism?
Shri Mataji: Yes that’s very true, they are going towards materialism. But they are realising that it’s not the right path. They are realising slowly, you see. Now as, say you started with plastics, now you know how horrible this plastic is. You started with other artificial things, and you found out they were no good for your body. Then even your lifestyle, when you try to have this kind of artificial relationships, you found out it did not work out. Nature took this respite. So, going to unnatural things doesn’t give you any good results. Now the Spirit is always trying to fight the matter. All the time, the Spirit is fighting the matter; it’s trying to rise above the matter. Like supposing we are used to something, we cannot give it up. Any habit formation is coming from the matter.
At the same time when people are taking to materialism, at the same time, there are many people who are thinking that, there must be something beyond it.
Interviewer: Is there something beyond materialism?
Shri Mataji: What that?
Interviewer: Is there something beyond materialism? [Yogi repeats question]
Shri Mataji: Of course, much, much more. And you see, actually materialism is going down, down the line. Everything is upside down; that is materialism. An upward movement, which is towards the Spirit, takes you to reality. What is reality is that, you are the Spirit and not the matter.
Interviewer: What sort of words of advice or help can You give Australians who are bound by materialism, who are involved in, or sorry, so obsessed with their cars, their videos and buying more, and they can’t [unclear] [question repeated by Indian Sahaja Yogi]... and their drink?
Shri Mataji: Their drink...It’s very simple. One – as soon as they become the Spirit, they give up all these things overnight, you’ll be surprised. We had drug addicts, in London, who came in a condition, we can call it as a coma condition, you see. Horribly addicted to drugs, and overnight they gave up, overnight, because Spirit is the power. No matter can overpower a person who is spiritual, in the real sense of the word. They just give up.
So many Australians we have now here, it must be at least, how many?
Australian Yogi: Oh, there was four hundred odd, four hundred odd and that wasn’t all of them.
Shri Mataji: They are the people who are practicing, [Yogi: Practising Sahaj] but otherwise we have many more, [Yogi: Oh, exactly.] who have just given up all these habits. I don’t tell them anything. I don’t say, don’t do it, because half of them would run away. But it happens, and when it happens, then they just give up.
Interviewer: All right, how do we become the Spirit?
Shri Mataji: As I told you that, there is this power within you, which is to be awakened. I can awaken your power, he can awaken: all of them can awaken. I mean, once they get the light, they can do it. You become a powerful personality; nothing can dominate you, you do not dominate anyone. You are no more a reactionist, but you are very substantial. You see, these days people are just reactionist, they are nothing themselves. And you can feel the divine Power within and without; you can feel it. It’s like a cool breeze in the hands you can feel it, which surrounds us.
Interviewer: What inspires You personally to spread,
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon? [speaks aside]
Interviewer: Sorry, sorry, I was asking, what inspires You personally to...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: What inspires You personally to come out and do this? Is it – the question? [Interviewer: Yes.]
Shri Mataji: It’s so satisfying; once you get it, you will also do the same. It’s like saving people from getting drowned.
Materialism is destructive, it will destroy human beings. This one is the constructive work. You construct good families, good children, good people, honest, honourable, virtuous, righteous. These qualities shine through your personality.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Will you have a cup of tea?
Shri Mataji: Where will he keep?
Australian Yogi: Ah, the table, next to the table... [offers a biscuit also]
Interviewer: Tell me, what is the secret to Self-Realisation? [repeated by Indian Sahaja Yogi]
Shri Mataji: Secret is that, now, no more a secret. [Indian Sahaja Yogi repeats, joyfully] Is a simple thing that, within you is, the power lies. Somebody who is authorised by the Divine. It’s not that a church, or a temple, or a mosque – they cannot authorise. The authority first must come from the Divine. And a person who has that divine authority can give Self-Realisation.
Interviewer: What would You say to people, or say, Australians who wake up feeling sorry for themselves each morning, how can they become... I’m directing this personally against Australians, but how, how can they help or save themselves, Australians who wake up feeling sorry for themselves each day, who have no, feel no purpose or worth in life itself.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He is asking, how can this help Australians, who wake up in the morning feeling sorry for themselves, who are not having anything to look forward to, [Interviewer: Purpose.] or any purpose in their lives. They wake up feeling that they have no purpose, how can this help.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what they feel, I know. But you see, once you become a realised soul, you start working for God. You have powers to awaken others. You have powers to cure others. And, you have powers to express yourself. And I would say, the greatest power a human being gets, is the collective consciousness.
Interviewer: Can you explain this enlightened state. Is it like being struck by a lightning bolt, or...?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He’s asking, could you please explain it, is it like being struck by a lightning bolt, or what, could you please explain, that is what he’s asking.
Shri Mataji: What, lightning? [slight break in recording] Then it takes, for the Kundalini to rise, little bit. Sometimes some people do feel tingling in the hands, before feeling the cool breeze. That suggests that there is something wrong on their centres, that’s all. These, all these pictures they have given, or whatever they have written about Kundalini, is all false. Because they were not authorised. You see, a person, who doesn’t know about electricity, puts his hands in the plugs and says that: ‘I got a shock.’ That means he doesn’t know the job, you see. They are not authorised; you have to have a person who is authorised by Divine. You must have also a character and a calibre. Not only that, but a life which is pure.
There is no hypocrisy in Sahaja Yoga. No hypocrisy. Because whatever you do, whatever you say is the same. There is no hypocrisy. As soon as you try to become, say, hypocritical sometimes, then you lose your vibrations. It’s automatic, I don’t do anything: automatically. And you don’t what to lose that, because all the wellbeing is finished.
Interviewer: Is there any afterlife reward for this state of mind, state of consciousness? [question repeated by Indian Sahaja Yogi]
Shri Mataji: Very many, after all you see, but before...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He is saying afterlife in the sense...
Shri Mataji: After death.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You mean after death, isn’t it? You see, first of all, when you are not a realised soul, we have no decision power; when to be born, how to be born, to whom to be born. We have no decision power, no direction. Then when, if you are a realised soul, like many children in Sahaja Yoga are realised souls, born. Many great people are born. They have chosen their parents, who are realised souls. They are very beautiful children, and very sweet children. Very well-behaved and very intelligent. They top the race everywhere, get all the prizes: no problems.
Interviewer: Just getting back to the question about the afterlife – do we exist as an energy? A positive energy or a negative energy?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: But, after life, do you mean after death?
Interviewer: After death.
Shri Mataji [smiling]: He’s more worried about after that. We’ll talk about the present; what is after death, why are you worried?
Interviewer: Well, just that it’s a...
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Interviewer: It’s a big question seems to haunt everyone.
Indian Sahaja Yogi [repeating]: It’s a big question what happens after death, that seems to haunt a lot of people. And so do, how do we exist after death was his first question.
Shri Mataji: All right, anyone isn’t it.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Yes anyone.
Shri Mataji: You mean anyone? So when people die, you see, as I told you, there are people who are mediocres, you see. They just live like, we should say, ordinary people with insurances, this, that and then they die. Such people, when they die, their soul remains. In the sense, the Kundalini and the Spirit remains. Plus, there are four elements within us. The essence of that remains with the soul: four elements. The earth element drops out. So these four elements, the essence of that, they remain with the soul. Now, if they are mediocres, they just hang around, you see; if they are attached to a wife, or this and that, they may possess also. They go into our collective subconscious area, most of them, and are born again, without any choice.
But some of them linger on. Say, if there is a politician who is very ambitious and he doesn’t want to die very soon, and he has to die – he goes out of grace by something – then he is born again, in a way, that he possesses another politician and for the time being, that politician appears to be a very smart fellow, you see. As if he is giving some good advices and good proposals. But after some time, he becomes absolutely useless. They become very ambitious, arrogant, and we can say, devoid of all collective feelings. They don’t worry about public; they are only worried about their own ideas. But such politicians, after some time, are exposed – to public, or they themselves feel sick – and that’s how they [unclear/get back], that’s their situation.
Interviewer: Do You expect all the corrupt ones have to come back in the next life.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Interviewer: Sorry, do You expect some corrupt politicians have to come back to justify their past life in a positive way?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He’s asking do very corrupt politicians, do they get reborn again as, in a manner so as to justify their past lives?
Shri Mataji: No, they have first of all possessed someone. They try their hands on some other corrupt ones, you see. That’s how we are getting corrupter and corrupter, you see. First, there were not such corrupt politicians. Now we find they are becoming more corrupt. Then, the reason is the very corrupt ones, you see, actually are added up by these dead, corrupt ones. They give them strength. So these politicians become extremely corrupt and they are not at all aware that, by doing such a thing, we will be all finished and ousted. Also these dead ones, the entities, give them ideas; how to hide their malpractices.
Interviewer: Would it be possible then, just judging by Your argument that, say – maybe the ultimate sort of, evil politician, Adolf Hitler – sort of directed or had some influence over a political leader?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Was, is it possible then that... was Adolf Hitler, was he possessed by some other being, or politician?
Interviewer: Or rather, after he died.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Or could he, after he died...
Shri Mataji: Of course he could.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: ... can he possess someone?
Shri Mataji: Of course he could, he could, but he has to have a strong personality to possess, you see, he was a horrid devil.
Interviewer: Do you know who the premier of Queensland is?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Do you know who the prime minister of Queensland is?
Interviewer: No, the premier.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: The premier, premier...
Shri Mataji: Of where?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: of Queensland.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know.
Interviewer: It’s a man – Joh Bjelke-Petersen.He hasn’t exactly inspired people by his leadership, and he’s....
Sahaja Yogi: Be careful what you ask! [unclear]
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He said that, he hasn’t people inspired in his leadership, this premier of Queensland.
Interviewer: Some may say, he’s turning the state into a mini dictatorship. Would it be possible that he...
Shri Mataji: He’s turning into?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Dictatorship, a mini dictatorship is what he has given...
Shri Mataji: You see, I would not say about one particular one. [Interviewer: Okay.] That will be this thing. But all those who become like that, should know that, they are being possessed. And they have to be careful. You see, once you start doing such a thing then they can be possessed. If you try to do something which is not publicly good, and something – you become arbitrary, you can call the word arbitrary is better, you see, arbitrary. Then somebody can jump on them, you see, waiting for such a character.
But I would not say about anyone particular, in particular. But there are some realised souls, who can become prime ministers and can do a lot of good, if they take up as prime minister-ship. But normally they are not so much interested in politics. That’s the trouble with them.
Interviewer: Can these spirits, these earthbound spirits, can they ever cease to exist? I mean, can you influence...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Which, the spirit sort of people who are dead? How? I’m sorry what was the question? Can they cease to exist? [Interviewer agrees] How can these, or can these spirits cease to exist?
Shri Mataji: Yes they can, they can cease to exist if you do not use these black magics and all these false gurus and all kinds of these money-makers, in the name of God. It depends on what you want. If the public wants people who make money in the name of God, in the name of religion, even in the name of yoga, then they exist, because these people use these spirits only, to befool.
Interviewer: But aren’t You right in saying, by your past, the past definition that someone who, someone say, a politician for example would draw, or draw that to the negative, draw that to the negative spirit or energy [unclear/upon themselves?]
Indian Sahaja Yogi: No, they use them, is what She explained, they can use them. He’s asking that, can even politician use such type of negative spirits.
Shri Mataji: Of course they do, they want it. Most of the politicians and also you can say bureaucrats, are more interested by these things than by a thing that is pure and simple.
They are more interested. Because you see, what they want, say they want a higher power, they want to oust someone, they want to defeat someone, so they use these people.
Interviewer: I’m sorry, could You just clarify, is it a case of the spirit using the person, the flesh, or is it the... or is it the flesh using the spirit?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He’s asking that, is it the question of the flesh using the spirit, or the people who are, the dead spirits in this sense, are using the people, because earlier You had mentioned something about the person, the corrupt person getting into the politician or so on. But, they get in and do they also use them? I think that’s the question.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, they do, they do. You see now, do you know who was the guru of Hitler? Lama.
Interviewer: Who?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He was a Lama, a Tibetan Lama.
Shri Mataji: This same Lama’s forefather.
Interviewer: I’m sorry, I don’t understand...
Shri Mataji: Dalai Lama.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Dalai Lama was the guru of Adolf Hitler...
Interviewer: Ah the guru, yes...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: The guru – is like a teacher, or a mentor...
Shri Mataji: Teacher.
Interviewer: Which Dalai Lama?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Not... a Lama. One of the Lamas.
Shri Mataji: No, no Dalai Lama himself, not this one. His forefathers...
Interviewer: The one before...
Shri Mataji: at that time, whosoever it was. Maybe his grandfather, because they have no fathers or anything, you see. They are picked up from here and there, like that. He was his guru.
Interviewer: I don’t quite...understand...
Shri Mataji: Spiritual guru.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He was a spiritual guru. He had...
Interviewer: The previous Dalai Lama... [much confusion still]
Shri Mataji: Not this Dalai Lama. You see, at the time Hitler had another Dalai Lama, he was his guru.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Now this is in response to your question, could Hitler have used these spirits, and he had learned all this from the Lamas.
Shri Mataji: And also the dead bodies – they use dead bodies, those people who practice this kind of a black magic, they use dead bodies. Supposing an evil genius dies, you see, they get after that and they try to get his skull, or something, just to overpower him, and they use him. Did you follow? Supposing an evil genius dies...
Interviewer: Yeah, all right.
Shri Mataji: Some evil genius dies, all right. So these people come to know that somebody has died like that. So they’ll get after that body, follow that body – is an ancient knowledge of our country, this is nothing new I’m telling you, we know all these things. That’s why we are out of it. They go, follow that body and get hold of the skull of that body, because we burn the bodies, you see. And then use the, you see, bind that fellow, enslave that evil genius and use him for torturing others. This is a very old knowledge of our country. Everyone knows about this knowledge, and they know what these people do, so nobody likes to go near them, very few. But the modern people, you see, who have had modern education, they have no idea, so they go to these people. In our country also, in Delhi if you see, there are lots of these people.
Like in Canberra as I came, I said, ‘Terrible’. In Canberra there must be many. Because My left side was caught up, I couldn’t even walk. Horrible people must be there in Canberra sitting down, doing this kind of work.
Interviewer: But I think anyone would argue the point that...
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He agrees with you.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I tell you, really. I mean, I couldn’t walk. I couldn’t walk one step forward.
Sahaja Yogi: He doesn’t know that Shri Mataji is sensitive to vibrations.
Shri Mataji: Whenever there is power, they are settled there, and they befool these people: these bureaucrats, or these politicians, these people.
Interviewer: Just to wind up a very enlightening interview, can this...
Shri Mataji: Beg pardon?
Interviewer: Just to wind up, to end a very enlightening interview, can I ask You, do You have a message for the world? [question repeated by Indian Sahaja Yogi]
Shri Mataji: The message is that, take to reality. Take to reality, that’s what it is. One has to take to reality. Seek the reality, and nothing artificial. Nothing superficial and wrong ideas.
Photographer: Just going back a little way, when You were talking, just going back into the interview a little bit, when You were talking about politician and the corrupted influences, how does that relate to... if say – our politician is a professed Christian – what is the relation? Is there a relation?
Shri Mataji: These powers are within you, they are all there. They have to just get it, that’s all; don’t pay for it, you can’t pay for it.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: This is in answer to your question...
Photographer: Yes, irrespective if you are a Christian or not.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: No... I’m just trying to... You wanted to know whether, even if you're a Christian, whether you can still be possessed, or do you get into these things? [To Shri Mataji] He is going back to the middle of the interview, he wants to know that if you're a Christian, means you go to church, or you have been confirmed, or whatever, can you still be affected by these dead spirits?
Shri Mataji: By all means – you are not connected with God. You are not connected with God; Christians means, doesn’t mean, that you are, you are one with God. You have to be connected, that’s what Christ has said. You have to be connected, isn’t it? He said you have to be born again. You see, we just put a certificate: ‘I'm a Christian,’ so what. God doesn’t know that. He has said it in the second chapter Mathews. He said, in the second chapter in the second verse: ‘You will be calling Me Christ, Christ, I will not know you.’ That’s really, He has said, He said it in many ways that, Christianity doesn’t lie in going to the church, at all. It lies in becoming connected with God.
Indian Sahaja Yogi [to interviewer/Photographer]: Shri Mataji is born Christian. Shri Mataji was born Christian, She comes from a Christian family.
Shri Mataji: So many Christians are doing this work. Charismatic movement is what? This seven, or what you call that, Pentecostals, this one, same thing: possession. Pentecostal have you seen, people, Pentecostals?
Photographer: Yes, yes, I have. Yes, yes.
Shri Mataji: That’s all possession, yes, yes. Charismatic movement is all possession. I find it difficult, to deal with them – they are terrible, they shake before Me. So, how can it be? Christianity can only be achieved when you are connected with God. Islam – Mohammed Sahib has said it clearly that, you should be connected with God, then only you can surrender. There’s no connection yet established.
Photographer: But you can profess a connection, can’t you. You can say, you are connected.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: What do you mean, already you can be connected or just be saying it.
Photographer: I can tell you I am connected, just to impress You, Shri Mataji.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Yes. He is saying that, ‘Supposing I want to impress you, I can say that I am connected to God.’
Shri Mataji: That is not saying; you get powers. You see, somebody, somebody says: ‘I'm now a twice born.’ All right, you put a certificate there, so you are not. You see, supposing you are a governor, supposing you say: ‘I am the governor of this place,’ then you have powers of a governor, isn't it? You must have the powers. If you don't have the powers, you cannot raise the Kundalini, you cannot give Self-Realisation, you cannot feel collective consciousness, you cannot feel all-pervading Power, you cannot cure people; how are you a twice born? Just a false certificate. That's why there has been problem. We are dealing with falsehood, not with reality. You see the point?
Among Christians also, how many churches, how many fights, how many arguments. Now recently, it was that with mafia, and with Vatican and with, what?
Sahaja Yogi: The Swiss Banks.
Shri Mataji: And Swiss Banks, are one.
Sahaja Yogi: And the connection between them.
Shri Mataji: What do you say to that? This is horrifying. And if you see the Iraqi and these other Arabs fighting, how do you explain?
Photographer: Yes and the, the...
Shri Mataji: That's why the young people have no respect for God, no respect for religion, logically. But, there is God, there is God. We must prove it now; the time has come to prove the existence of God. Hitler called him as a very big Christian himself. You don't know that, he used to call himself a big Christian, and he protected all the Christian churches in Germany. He could manage.
Sahaja Yogi: Didn't he close down the churches? Didn’t he make the...
Shri Mataji: No, he didn't close. You see, he supported all the nuns, he supported all the churches, everything; he called himself as a Christian. And he was a vegetarian on top of that. What is it: strict vegetarian. Only believed in killing people in gas chambers, that's all. Horrible thing. All those who go to church, how much they achieve? How much of righteousness of Christ, how much His goodness: nothing. Why, why it has failed? Because without connection with God, you cannot. You cannot understand religion, you cannot understand Christ.
Photographer: Well we do so to, to try and form a connection, don’t we?
Shri Matai: What’s he say?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He says, can we, we do go to church to try and form a connection with God.
Shri Mataji: You see, the trouble is the one who gives you the connection, has not authority. You see, it must come, the authority, must come from God. Those people have no – you are all simple people who go there, you see. I see them, because I come from Christian family Myself. They are all simple people who go to church, thinking that, we are in connection with God, but no. The person in charge there is a paid employee. [laughter]
Photographer: So, we got it all wrong.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He wants to know, whether we have got it all wrong. Have we got it all wrong?
Shri Mataji: In a way and in a way not, because I will fulfil all the promises. That, of that I’m sure; all the Christians, they can be fulfilled with their promises, because they have loved God, they have loved Christ. All of them, all those who have loved Christ, will get their promises fulfilled.
Photographer: With or without the connection.
Shri Mataji: You’ll just now get it. In such a way...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: It’s so swift. You can't have it without the connection to God, but Shri Mataji says that, you will have it.
Sahaja Yogi: You’ll get the connection...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: If you loved Christ, if you love Christ, you will have it.
Shri Mataji: If you have loved Christ, you'll get it.
Photographer: And this applies to [unclear/anybody]
Indian Sahaja Yogi: She asked you all to do this, now if you would like to have it here...
Shri Mataji: I love those who love Christ.
Sahaja Yogi: He said yes.
Photographer: And it also applies to the followers of Islam and so on...
Shri Mataji: It’s not only in the churches, in all the religions it is going on like this. This priesthood has nothing to do with God, it has nothing to do with God, that's the problem is. Some of them may be good, I'm not saying all of them are like that. But goodness is not sufficient; they should have power, to connect you with God.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: She asked you whether you would like to.
Shri Mataji: I’ll give you just now.
Photographer: I think in My own way, I...
Shri Mataji: You get it just now, just put your hands towards Me, just like this, and you'll get it, the cool breeze. You take out your shoes, that's all. You can, just one minute? You will get the cool breeze in no time. If you have loved Christ, you will get it. Cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. You all should feel it. Now put your hands towards Me. A simple man and why shouldn't you get. Put your hands here. He's got it. Just see on his head. You’re feeling the cool breeze in your hand, the sensation?
Photographer: I think so.
Shri Mataji: It’s there, on your head it is there. It has come out, see now, see for it. You are absolutely thoughtless now; you are watching Me without thoughts.
But all the Christians must learn this point, that's all. They are not gone wrong, they have loved Christ. Ha, good. Feeling better now? Just put your hands here and see for yourself. Little higher?
Photographer: I think so.
Shri Mataji: There, it’s there. [to Interviewer] Let's have it, also you come along. Then you’ll know better to write. Please take out your shoes for one minute; you can get it in no time. [to Photographer] Ha, see you better now, much better. [inaudible] Please put both the feet.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Nabhi blocked, Nabhi, liver...
Shri Mataji: Are you feeling any cool breeze?
Interviewer: I'm feeling relaxed, but I don’t feel any cool breeze.
Shri Mataji: All right, just watch Me here, just watch Me here, and forgive. Forgive everyone, you have to forgive. Just say it in your heart that, I forgive everyone, all right?] Just say that. [Shri Mataji starts to bring down his right side] You see, your world is such, that you have to be little futuristic. That's why there's a little imbalance, that's all, which I'm correcting. Now?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: It’s better, he has this...
Shri Mataji: Right Vishuddhi.
Interviewer: What's wrong?
Shri Mataji: Just right here, it’s because you talk, you see, and all that, you have to talk all the time. That's why this is a little bit... put both the feet on the ground.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Left Nabhi is...
Shri Mataji: Where?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: The heart... It’s better. Now Agnya.
Shri Mataji: Now, there is no thought in your mind. Is there any thought, let's see. You are thoughtless, absolutely, you got it. Feeling anything in the hand?
Interviewer: I feel anything in my hands?
Shri Mataji: What are you feeling?
Interviewer: I'm feeling nothing.
Shri Mataji: A sensation?
Interviewer: A sensation as if I was holding nothing.
Shri Mataji: A sensation...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Not yet.
Shri Mataji: Now better, is cool now? Cool breeze, or not yet? All right. [Shri Mataji stands up to work on him more fully] You have to forgive. You see, this is the centre of Christ. At this centre you have to forgive. [to yogis] Now, you don't do that. He'll be nervous, this gentleman. You are married?
Interviewer: No.
Shri Mataji: Not yet. You want to marry? Ah, that’s the trouble. You see, that’s unnatural not to marry. All right, that's why this is catching. You’ll have to marry sir, it’s important. Ah, now [unclear] Better now.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Sushumna doesn't open.
Shri Mataji: Sushumna?] [Indian Sahaja Yogi’s reply is unclear] You have to ask Me [unclear] for Self-Realisation, it cannot be forced, all right? I cannot force it on you. You have to ask for it, just ask for it. [unclear] my Self-Realisation. It’s so important. Hot. [unclear] I’m feeling little bit perspiration: hot. You work very hard sir, you shouldn't work that hard. Some perspiring. Just say: ‘I am the Spirit,’ in your heart. Say that: ‘I am the Spirit. Say: ‘I am the Spirit.’ Just again say: ‘I am the Spirit.’ Just again say: ‘I am the Spirit.’ Now better. Heart be catching. [unclear] Vishuddhi and Agnya. [Shri Mataji blows directly into his Sahasrara] So much heat coming out. Now better? Perspiration is better? Yes. You work very hard. Better now. [unclear] You shouldn't have worked so hard. [re Indian Sahaja Yogi ]He himself is a doctor. And a psychiatrist. Now...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He has a combination of left and right, both of that. Left and right combination, Shri Mataji. You can feel it moves between one and the other. [Hindi] And the Agnya, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Agnya. It’s come out.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Ah, now it's coming. [to Photographer] Do you want come and feel it? Convince yourself. Do you feel the cool coming out of the top of his head?
Shri Mataji: Feel it, it's there.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Now you feel it on your left?
Shri Mataji: [to Interviewer] You think too much, don't think, just don't think.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: [to Photographer] How are you feeling?
Shri Mataji: You didn't do any wrong, you see. You love Christ and you’ve got it. He has promised this, hasn’t He?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: [telling Photographer to feel Kundalini of boy] He’s a boy of ten, he’s been doing for many years: try. [aside in Hindi to Shri Mataji] It’s so cool. [Shri Mataji: innocent.] Simple head. Everybody should have it.
Shri Mataji: How are you now, better? Eyes are bright like Mine. Not yet, in the hands it’s slightly. Your heart is very [unclear] Better now. [rubbing his back and blowing again into his Sahasrara] [in Hindi about the liver and Heart]
Now better, relaxed. You are relaxed, all right. But what your hands? Are you all right, are you feeling any cool breeze? Not yet. Can't cool down, perspiration has gone? Now better. All right, take this water, this will cool you down, your stomach especially. Liver is there. Terrible liver.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: You can see his skin is all burnt also. You have to just ask, you have to ask, Shri Mataji: ‘Let me feel the breeze.’
Shri Mataji: It’s definitely better, but only thing is his, this liver is very bad.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Also Vishuddhi...
Shri Mataji: Ha, now better, better, the liver is released. Wow, the heat. Goes up to the heart, the liver heat. You are not married, then you are your mother, father? You live alone?
Interviewer: Yea, l live alone.
Shri Mataji: Just imagine, that's why. Now. Ha, better now.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Now this should... you feel it here, this end? [Hindi aside]
Shri Mataji: Please take the water, please. Because here it is coming, cool breeze, [Sahasrara] but in the hands, because of this centre, it’s very hot. This centre is just like stone. [unclear]
Indian Sahaja Yogi [to Photographer] Feel it? Move it like this and you will see it.
Photographer: I think so, yes.
Shri Mataji: It goes back, you see. Comes up here and goes back to liver. Now, what is it, you say? [Hindi] Nabhi: he’ll marry later on. All right, come along, have that water. All the Australians have bad livers, that's one thing, very common. [Yogis: Sun, sun, too much sun.] Thinking too much. Better?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Now he’s thoughtless [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: What about in your hands, feeling it? Some sort of a breeze?
Interviewer: No, not...
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Hands are white, Shri Mataji, the hands are white.
Shri Mataji: All right I’ll just see... [pressing his head] Relax. Left and right, both are catching. Should catch hold of this, both sides. [unclear] Swadisthana – hot, hot. Do you feel very hot all the time?
Interviewer: Yeah, most of the time. [Indian Sahaja Yogi repeats]
Shri Mataji: You see, the skin, the skin is so much heated up. You sit in the sun?
Interviewer: Sometimes. [laughter]
Shri Mataji: Oh, it’s too much: too much sun is not good. That creates terrible problems. See the heat, on the ears – everything is heated up.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Swadisthana is there.
Shri Mataji: [to someone else in the room] You have liver too? Put left hand, left hand on the liver, right hand towards Me, yes. [to interviewer] Better now? How you’re feeling, relaxed? Cooler? Feeling cooler or not? Still a lot of heat: too much heat. Better now, now, hands are cool. Hands are definitely cool now, I must say. So now, let's see. You must give it liver treatment. It’s very simple; you take it for two days, this heat will go away, you’ll feel very much better, your realisation will be established. You have got it now – we can feel it on your head, it's coming out, but in your hands I think it's not there because of the heat of the liver. Liver is very much heated up, but it’s better now. [Hindi] Feel better? [blows again on him] Better now.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: It goes back to Agnya now.
Shri Mataji: To where?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Agnya.
Shri Mataji: All right, finish this. [the water] [unclear/ there are...let’s finish it off,] it will work out. [unclear] It’s cooled down, it’s very much cooled down, let's see. Ha! [Indian Sahaja Yogi: It's better now: Hamsa.] Hamsa. All right, better now? Feeling any cool in the hand? Not yet, nothing.
All right, put your hands up in the air, and just ask a question: ‘Is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost? Just ask the question to Me. [Interviewer repeats three time] Ha, let's see, now? Is it?
Interviewer: No, I don’t feel it.
Shri Mataji: Don't doubt yourself, you don't doubt yourself. You don't doubt: you’re doubting yourself. You’ve cooled down very much – his face, look at him. All the redness has gone, it's much cooler. No? Nothing. You been to any one of these people who teach and talk about dead things and all that? No, sure you have been. You know, you are catching on that chakra. To someone, you’ve been to someone who is doing these kind of magic things and all that?
Interviewer: I've been to a few...
Shri Mataji: Went to some false guru?
Interviewer: Yeah, not personally myself, but I’ve witnessed a few people who've been.
Shri Mataji: You’ve been reading about it. Who?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He has witnessed it, seen something. [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: What did you see?
Interviewer: I saw, I've seen a few people who have been absorbed by false gurus and who've...
Shri Mataji: What did you see, you just tell him.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He’s seen some people who've been to false gurus, Shri Mataji.
Interviewer: Interviewed them.
Shri Mataji: You’ve seen them, how they have suffered?
Interviewer: No, not how they’ve suffered, but in therapy, in some kind of treatment.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He’s seen them in some sort of a treatment, in therapy or whatever they do... whatever they do together.
Shri Mataji: They worked on you also?
Interviewer: No, but I've seen someone who's in my family, have treatment and this sort of...
Shri Mataji: Have been.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He has seen someone in his family have this treatment, he observed it.
Shri Mataji: I see. Of the false gurus. And they suffered, or what?
Interviewer: Financially, yeah...
Shri Mataji: Financially... That's the first, that's the first one. How much money you have in your purse, is the point. You have... Rustum, what do you say? Still on the Vishuddhi.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Vishuddhi, Left Nabhi is quite strong Shri Mataji, [inaudible]and Left Swadisthana – those two. Left Nabhi comes from Left Swadisthan.
Shri Mataji: It should work out. Actually, his Vishuddhi is not so bad as his Nabhi is.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Nabhi is very bad.
Shri Mataji: Somebody has told you that you have a liver problem, or no?
Interviewer: Not as yet, no.
Shri Mataji: Not as yet. According to us, your liver is very heated up, all right? And you have to cool it down. Because of that, you have so much of heat in the body, too much heat. Heat is not a good thing, it’s not a constructive thing. And when the heat of the thing starts melting, I mean other things, you get all kinds of complications from the liver. So, there was perspiration, because it also affects the heart. It goes – the heat, you see, makes the heart pump more and into problem. And these are all things connected with the liver. Of course, our treatment to liver takes, doesn't take much time. It takes very hardly two, three days, but you’d better take your treatment of liver, is very important. Because if the liver goes out, everything – life becomes miserable. You cannot concentrate on anything and you feel like vomiting, you don't feel like eating food and all things happen. And sometimes you feel also giddy and can go into another kind of a, what you call, perversion of the thing. Can become very serious matter.
So, right now the best thing is for you to get your liver done. Though you have got cool breeze on your head, we can feel it. Try, if you can feel it? Left hand, [Hindi] let us see if you can feel on top of your head. With your left hand, and just see. [Indian Sahaja Yogi: Do you feel anything?]
Interviewer: To tell you the truth, I don’t feel anything.
Shri Mataji: No? Can't feel it, so it’s all right. The feelings are according to the nerves, you see, that are there. Now what has happened is, that your Vishuddhi, this centre is – also, because you talk too much with people, you have to talk with them and all kinds of people you have to talk to. So your Right Vishuddhi is catching, that is, this centre is catching. That's why the feeling is less, but it is there, he has felt it. And it’s there and you are feeling relaxed, now you will sleep well, and if you can come sometime, I'll treat your liver perfectly all right. You must take treatment of your liver, all right? But Australia is known for liver, bad liver. Australia and France: experts on liver treatment. I think they drink and they sit in the sun. All that is necessary to spoil the liver, they think too much. Australians also think too much, that's why their liver is not all right. But now, are you not feeling better in any way?
Interviewer: I feel more relaxed.
Shri Mataji: Are you feeling relaxed? Achchha. Now, are you also feeling cooled down?
Interviewer: Cool and [unclear/full.]
Shri Mataji: Feel your hands. Feel cool? Hands are cool now, cooler? Better. I mean there is a trouble that's what is to be cured, you see and has to be done, which will work out. So, any time whenever you are coming we'll work it out, and we’ll get you all right, as far as that is concerned. And then you will be surprised, that your dynamism will be so great. Not that in your work, but you'll never be tired, you’ll never have this kind of complications, you will work as much as you like, it will be a witness state in which you will be. So you will never think about it and you will be very dynamic and very successful. But that has to work out, should not be just left to half done. All right, you understand. [to Photographer] You also come along, establish yourself and now give realisation to other Christians who are, poor thing, going to the church all the time, morning till evening and receiving nothing. What have they received? What have they got? So you will be the real Christian. You can cure people. You can have the knowledge – everybody knows what's wrong with him, on the fingertips. On the fingertips, that's what it is, reality. You have to feel it on your fingertips; till you feel it, they'll be after you. They are all perfectionists. Because now you have to go, it’s all right, but you come next day, you come next to that, they'll work it hard and make you perfect. All right, may God bless you, may God bless you.
Interviewer and Photographer: Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you. Enjoy yourself.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: All the journalist have this problem, you know you are another one. Some of them, most of them. Their right Vishuddhi always catching, because they talk too much – even the teachers have the same trouble. It’s all right, when you come next, we'll put you right. But now give a little constructive report about us, so that we are helpful to people, you know. This, only we need you for this kind of thing that, you have to give them the right, correct thing. That, see, don't go to false gurus, don't pay them money. Don't do all these things, wasteful things, take to your own style which is within yourself, just get your own powers. You don' have to go to somebody for that, just within you it lies. And how can you pay? God doesn't understand money. Does He understand money? No. God doesn't understand money. How can you pay for God? First thing, the one who says: ‘I need money for this’, then cancel. So many will be cancelled like this. You can't pay for God. It’s all right, I mean now I'm staying with them, they are looking after Me, give Me food and all that, that's all. But I'm no expense otherwise. When they come to My house, I look after them too.
Ha, thank you very much, very nice meeting you. [shaking hands with interviewer] Oh, now it's cool and nice. All right, may God bless you. Thank you very much. May God bless you.
So, hope to see you some time for your liver trouble. We’ll give you a prescription and you will be cured, all right? Will take no time for you to get cured. All of them had liver, all Australian Sahaja Yogis. May God bless you.
Interviewer: Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: He has been to the false gurus, so he will know now the value of Sahaja Yoga. [Hindi]
Indian Sahaja Yogis: He saw some relative of his, go to some kind of a collective, some sort of a therapy, with some such false therapists –Tantric...I think he has seen something horrible.
Shri Mataji: TM.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: I don't think it's TM, I think he has seen some...
Shri Mataji: I think it’s TM.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: I think he has seen, or he seems to have seen something horrible. And he also said that his, that relative of his lost out financially. [discussion in Hindi] Bhagwan is beyond all this, God is beyond any formal...
Shri Mataji: ‘I'm taking you to God. First give me your purse, you see, God doesn't understand money, better give me.’ That's the logic.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: When he was asking You about all that spirits and after dead and so on, [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: His [unclear] was going up and down, he was asking Me about spirits. So many questions. He asked if they can possess the politicians, I said: ‘Yes they can.’
He said that Queensland, Queensland Prime Minister is becoming like a dictator. [Sahaja Yogi: Yes.] Do you think he is possessed? I said: ‘I can't say about one person,’ I don't.
Sahaja Yogi: Queenslanders have the highest rate of skin cancer, Shri Mataji. Queenslanders have the highest rate of skin cancer in the world. [Hindi] Rajesh.
Shri Mataji: What does he? [statement is repeated for Shri Mataji]
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He said in Queensland – this is the state of Queensland.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: We are in Queensland now, that's why he was asking about Queensland. It’s the capital, right? Brisbane, Brisbane is the capital of Queensland. And he said they have very high rate, or highest rate in Australia of skin cancer. [inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: In the world, the highest rate in the world.
Shri Mataji: Highest rate.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Of skin cancer.
Shri Mataji: And also suicide I have heard. Or Canberra.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: That's in Canberra.
Shri Mataji: But this one [the interviewer] is definitely out for a skin.
Indian Sahaja Yogi: Already started it, the spots, you can see spots already, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Skin he has. He's out for a skin troubles. I told him in a way. Whom did he go to?
Sahaja Yogi: He didn't remember the name. He said, he didn't remember the name of the people, but it was a Sydney based group and they used to be involved going into past life times.
Shri Mataji: What he's saying?
Indian Sahaja Yogi: He's saying he doesn't remember who he went to. It wasn’t TM... It was not TM, but it was a group there is based in Sydney, and they go into the past lives of the people and means all this, what he was talking about.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s probably this [unclear/karma] therapy You were reading about today.
Shri Mataji: I told him not to talk about the dead, they wanted to know. But I told him, doesn't matter. I told him this is all old knowledge to us. It’s all right, he was quite impressed at it.
Sahaja Yogi: I think so, yes.
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, I told him to look in the mirror, I told him his face looks different and his friend said, ‘Yes it does.’ He said, ‘Your complexion is better and your eyes look different.’ So I told him to look in the mirror.
Shri Mataji: You see, this skin trouble, as he says. it's skin cancer, definitely showing on him. They want to sit in the sun, [Sahaja Yogi: Oh yes,] that must be the... Madness. [laughs] I really don't... They say, that a mad dog and an Englishman, you see... But the Americans are worse than English.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, would You like dinner now?
Shri Mataji: All right I'll have dinner now. I’m sorry, I can't hear much today. Tomorrow I'll be all right.
Sahaja Yogi: We all have dinner now?