Is There Truth In God? 1980-07-07
Current language: English, list all talks in: English
7 July 1980
Is There Truth In God?
Public Program
Caxton Hall, London (England)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
"Is there truth in God?" Caxton Hall, London (UK) 7th July 1980
All kinds of organisation has suddenly started working out god [unclear]like mushrooms in the rainy season is suddenly appear.And we really get lost to find out if there is anything truthful about his heavenly power .We even doubt if Christ was great ,we doubt ourself many times as well .There is no way of finding out whether our scriptures have any meaning or not because we have also lost something in a modern times .Our sensitivity to spirituality is being completely dumped,stunt and various kind of pseudo-efforts by intellectuals ,you can say the psychologists ,spiritualist all sudge evch people who are entering into the realm of religion and god and trying to propagate their own theories .At this juncture even today the situation is such that w get confused ,even about our own confusion .At this time it is my luck to present to you something really sensitive . So the task is tremendous.
But you must find out the ways and methods to judge even the credibility of the person who talks about the god through our reasoning .You have to go with the beyond with thoughts . But even they accept something ,we use our rationality .And if ,if you are to be [unclear blindly] then there are many people who are following things ,absolutely blindly ,without thinking about it .
Both things are equally the same When you start denying to think about it ,to understand it and do not use your rationality or you accept something blindly . Though went to the way of rationality or you accept something blindly. Though went to the way of rationality you really wonder about too much And because of that ,the realisation though it take place ,takes time to its maturity . The rationality can be like this to begin with you must understand that you are not yet there ,where you should be.Why are we still very confused .
We are not found out our own meaning No doubt about it .
You are seeking definitely ,you are seeking .Some experience ,Somebody said that i met a guru and suddenly i saw a light .That is no experience .
So we see a thing clearly that ,experience that we talk off has to be related the experience as described by the great saints. It has to tell you with many things,even with psychology even with medicine .
In psychology ,it’s described by the evolution has to ,being now ,into a new awareness of a new dimensions ,in which you become collectively conscious,In which there is a very fine line .
Some body came to me the other day ,he said that i went somewhere and i felt that -I am the ocean ,i am the mountain ,i am the flower But i said that how can you be that ?
Because you have come out of all that now ,you are human being at a highest stage .You are not going to become a flower again .Are you?
You are going to become something superior ,in you awareness ,in your evolution ,We have evolved not to experience but be in our awareness.
In our own awareness ,we are human beings but there are many things about which we do not know yet .But we feel that we have to find out something more, there is something else we have to find out [unclear]something [unclear]
So we go on saying no to this & no to that .That is a very beautiful sanskrit couplet -Naiti ,Naiti.....
Where you say this -Not this Not this This is one way of approaching .Because rationality can not take into it .So definitely we are not going to become frogs or chicken .
Some people think if they become vegetarians then what?
Even there are so many vegetarians .Even the people who think they are fasting have evolved.
I mean there are many people who are dying of starvation . They must be all going to heaven directly is it?
Some people think if they shave their heads they have evolved .Some people think if they broom their hairs they will [unclear evolve ]
So we have to go on saying NO It’s not outside .It is not by doing something outside So we disqualify all the things which suggest you by wearing this kind of dress or by changing or by dance or by jump,or the way whatever you do ,dress up like this ,dress up like that .All such outward expression are denied .All right .Because by denial only you start extracting all that, that is artificial,and reality will remain.So that is out of question .You go further .
Where people say that we give an experience I mean ,Now i am going to the subtler side of it .
Now the experience is your ,sitting here and suddenly you will find some water pouring into your head or say something stat moving from here to there.Put your rationality into it .
What business god has got to move this from here to there . I mean why he is interested .
Haven’t you got your hands Or somebody say that you can fly in the air Now you are not going to become birds.Are you?Do you want to become birds .Then it is all right .That you are not going to become the bird.So that is also cut off .
You go further ,little further it,People might say that you will get the fragrance all right so What we get the fragrance otherwise also .You go to the shop of fragrance you get the fragrance .
Or somebody say that you will get a diamond so what you go to a shop and buy a diamond .
Somebody will say that you will see a light .So what we can see the light as it is .What is there in light . But you can see [unclear ]
Then somebody might say that i am preparing for something then what is the surity.Then how are you preparing All these claims are to be on one side..Then some people ,can give big lectures ,they have a capacity to capture your attention ,they are greater lecturers then we have and could be much more [unclear].So then we come to a point to ask -what should we expect [unclear]
I felt very happy when i see [unclear]
If you take alcohol how do you feel happy Again you go to the same state what’s the use .so we come to a point to understand that this if it is an evolution It is a living process..When we evolve our nervous system .Our awareness changes , transforms and the psychologist have said that you have to jump into the collective consciousness means our awareness should become collective consciousness . now what is collective consciousness ?
Is it to know what kind of dress you are wearing .What is the interest of god in knowing what kind of dress you are wearing .Always put this question . What is the interest of the divine & then you will reach a point or to know how a person sits ,and talk and how should hold his knife and forks.or to know what kind of battle of [unclear]
Or to say that you belong a particular culture or that culture or this or he is a gentlemen or not .Is that the interest the interest of god!
It has to be something very much all pervading,must be common in everyone ,fix up that point .So it must be something within every one in every human being because god is not going to discriminate ..It has to be placed somewhere in the human being .Something special ,some sort of special thing must be there for its rebirth.It can’t be outside .And it must be something that is happening by itself because it is spontaneous.
You have not worked it out .[unclear You have not globally has changed the monkey into men .All the medical sciences together ]
Even a one monkey or chimpanzee for their convenience .So it is now ,the point before us to know that it is not possible .for us to be . If you has to become something else it has to be spontaneous ,sahaja .Just as your nose ,as your eyes,everything this has to be with in you .Now where in the body can you bear it could be placed?How are we to find out through rationality ?Let us go to the medical science Then say that sacrum bone is called as sacred by greeks first they did not know why but now they say that -It will not burn if even the whole body burns out.Because its sacred according to the greeks and it is such a secured bone may be there is something in there ..Then also a that point also you go subtle and subtle and negative people will go with you .so you said that there is a kundalini then . It is written in the shastras in all the books everywhere even in the bible it is written that -”i will appear before you like tongues of flames and you get subtler and subtler’’ . And they get subtler ,they said kundalini Alright yes we are masters of kundalini if you say we can make you fly we can also make you fly.
But now if you say that it is kundalini so they say alright [unclear]
Who will awaken the kundalini?
How will you awaken the kundalini ?What do you know about kundalini ?
Such big big books are written by some people about kundalini.I can tell you they do not know a word not a word.. They know no idea about what kundalini is .and what is depicted in books ?[unclear]
Can you imagine this kind of thing will work?
Now why we come to kundalini we have to know that that it is spontaneous thing ass kundalini is to be awakened by which you get the second birth is written in the scriptures .Now if you have not to believe scriptures It’s all right you did not believe than at all. But why not give it a chance .
What, right ?
So when you say that you want to try kundalini awakening you will find at least hundreds master of kundalini arriving on the screen ,charges are different ,styles are different ,[unclear circumstances ] are different ,whole approach different ,advertisement is great and everybody reaches there for kundalini awakening .[unclear]
Greater the circus greater the crowd .Then they said your kundalini is awakened and by that you get blisters on your body ,half of them run away ,half of them said doesn’t matters we will have the blisters in our body and they get and live with that in their life .This is not evolution .By evolving you god is not going to give you blisters .He has some self there.For blisters you can’t go for kundalini awakening .Even you can get them by rubbing some DDT or something Whatever has to come ,has to be better .It has to better you ,improve you .Evolution means paying higher and higher not low.This point you must go on saying ,I am [unclear ....]
Now with this idea of kundalini many other things which are hanging around like some people may think the more you pay, the richer you are ,the grater you are for kundalini awakening [unclear...........]
Especially developing countries .Those who have got money now who are affluent are taken up by another nonsense ,and they think that if kundalini has to be awakened they have to indulge into free sex..so christ answered ,everybody understand because they indulge into free sex and they were absolutely against it .so now the new type of kundalini awakening is going to come by which you are going to become slaves of your greed ,and slave of your all these things .If evolution is meant for freedom you are not going to be enslaved .The power has to come with in you by which you start above all these things and you are the master of everything then only it is evolution .That’s how we move further on We can say this also that you become the master ,you are the master of all the emotions and thoughts & everything .You are above it .
These things happen and people fall into all this one by one into some trap or something like that .
Its is your awareness which is to be enlightened .It is easy for people who have read about kundalini ,in the books ,of people who have been realised souls But it is very unfortunate ,that such books are very few ,out of which nobody bothers.The only fake ones are selling in the market .It is very unfortunate or so .
So here the kundalini rises I say kundalini can rise .It is awaken and it can be awakened by you people .All of you can not raise the kundalini But you have to be realised soul It is like what is before the egg of a hen somebody has t start it some body has to do it .say if i have to do it what can i do about it ....that’s not a crime.If somebody has chosen me to do this why you must be angry with me for that .Immediately as soon as you come to know somebody is doing it ego stands up like a big snake and comes up say why she ? why not me ? Then again use your rationality .I am doing s many things at different level .She is not doing all these things .
She is doing only this ,that is her job so why should i mind .what is there to be offended she is not going to harm you .If it is going to do good why not somebody has to do . I mean if you do well and good .I have said so many times please come .....
I will be very happy to sit down there and watch.
But you just can’t do it unless and until you are realised souls .It’s the fact . You have to accept .You see it would be like child to say that why should you nurse me I will nurse you! alright can you ? It is something like that ...It’s stupid ..
Not to feel bad about it in any way .This is one of the deep problem i face . That people immediately start feeling very bad ,sad and angry sitting[unclear hushing ] .I am your mother .Am i not? I have no right to [unclear]
I am there to look after you what is there to get angry with me .I have t work hard .you don’t have to .But remove your temper .....one point is ..you can’t pay for your evolution how could you pay to become man from chimpanzee .Please see your account books .You don’t pay for these things how much you have paid for the light you get , for the sun rays ,for the air you get ,for the mother, what have you paid .Its simple thing we can’t pay for the love of god .It is in his love who is doing all these things . Only if we are little [unclear being ] to this .............Some times we have our problems but to receive it we have to be ready at least then comes the theory behind and i say that supposing i have done the cooking why don’t you have it first .
Supposing you come in the room and ask a simple question - mother how to put the lights on and i said press the button It is sensible ...
Instead of that I give you the whole history of electricity who discovered it ,and how this [unclear ]
If i know the job i can put on the light and then you see for yourself whether it’s safe or not !
You are all these things before you and you have seen the place of kundalini
There is a book available which you can read and go through all the theories you want .There is a big one ..If you want you can pack one also . But just now i will say that just have the light .alright !
Question :[unclear]
Ans: The problem is after getting realisation your old habits ,try to pull you down you see.As I would say that ,we are going by traffic alright & we are worried about a traffic is.we are tensed . we are seeing this suddenly we find that there is very nice road ,no traffic problem .But it takes us time to relax,still we are thinking of the same traffic.Its in the same way .We are have these habits of thinking about everything ,analysing everything .The more you have done it the worse it is .
You will find many people here but
You give that a flower .Instead taking that fragrance of the flower they will be immediately find out whether you have brought it [unclear ChenseheveShower ]or you must have paid .......
They will not even look at the flower .They will think which shop they have buyed ,better go that shop ,there is sale there .Why dont you gave ..........Instead of seeing that, this flower is given with so much joy to you they will immediately give some yoou some sort of information about their big analysis .Its all the habit .Anything you like .............
Why she did it ? when she did it?
All this is ..............Mind is like that. Now to stop this mind is also the job of kundalini .
She stops .But for a short time .
Now we have many techniques .
Yoga also means techniques . In sahaja yoga by which you can change the habits of your mind
After sometime you will see that even if you are silent there is bombardment from both the sides .Ideas coming in ..But if you learn to misidentify ,or not to identify with them you get rid of them also .Gradually stops.
In no country it has worked out with many
Once it works out ,there are many people .This cristine is sitting in front of me 3 years she was like that ,now she is changed completely see that if this habit goes .Is gross .It is a living process like a tree Its grows in silence but it must be started isn’t it ?
The seed must sprout to begin with .In some people it goes just like that in some it does
because more intelligent you are the more headache ,the more you are ready the worse it is because you start analysing your vertebra .
How can you analyse?
Now please analyse These things we take for granted .If we could see that realisation takes place and the kundalini rises & reaches here and you become absolutely silent and the cool breeze starts flowing from you .It has happened to you.This you should remember and you felt peaceful.
Then again you have so many problems with you ,You and your kundalini supplies again It is the first thrash of the kundalini which takes you away into that .But how the [unclear world] is made
The first point has started .Its going to work out But there are certain techniques which you have to follow ,after sahaja yoga after realisation .If you can ,establish yourself it can be and it is a miracle
Because commonly people has to go to the jungles ,forests ,fight it all do all kinds of things and after years and years of complete seclusion the guru use to accept them and then he would initiate and still they use to use it.
There are so many cases like that of this kind.Yu are far from this example - The are who has written Gita .If you read his parashar who was a realised soul and who was going to himalaya he felt for a women and thats how this vyasa was born and then he repented and went away to the himalayas .So it has happened in many cases that where mis identification come up .But you dont have to go to the jungles ,you don’t have to leave you families ,you have to stay here and work it out Its the miracle of the miracles .Those who have go to the banks can go to the banks ,you dont have to run away accept for this graveyard you cannot go to the graveyard .I have seen people working in the graveyard and all kinds of thing like that .We have one here john,who went from graveyard he use to shake ,but then he got rid of that .Then the friend of his ,has came to see him about 4 [unclear ]
Somethings like that has to be avoided .So there is a certain amount of understanding is needed how to grow the streak of awareness because even it has happened it goes down because of our problems ,because of the problems of atmosphere.
I mean if you are not problematic ,kundalini will never goes down It simple thing to understand But there are problems .There are some people whose kundalini is permanent -2 never comes down .I know many like that. But there are problems say in the liver ,in your case its the liver so kundalini goes to the liver ,she is looking and acted Doesn’t matter she will care the liver and again she will be back very soon alright . There is a problem with your liver Everybody has individual problems .But for that you should not be afraid It doesn’t matter even if it is a fifth [unclear]So you did not worry about that it is alright .But don’t feel guilty that’s the biggest problem because as soon as i say that this chakra is catching immediately people start feeling guilty oh god this chakra is catching now what i have done .I must have done something .You have done nothing wrong.[unclear]
Clear it.
By feeling guilty you also make things very difficult .That’s also little problem with people We must understand especially with the western mind. They are very good at feeling guilty .I don’t know for what are they feeling guilty .They are such beautiful people .Those who have to feel guilty are arrogant those who do not have to feel guilty are [unclear ]
It is a funny world
Alright any other questions ?
Question :
It’s so answered that i can’t tell you .It very --------------------from thousands and thousands Alright
Then you will know me better alight
Just now for the time being, think that i am really antique
What other questions are there.
Atleast when i do not want to answer the question i play tricks don’t mind because you will know why it’s alright Later on you will know I never got it from anyone It’s my own alright .
[unclear]
Never want ego to come up ....that’ s why i do not want to say .Its better to say that i learnt it from you .
Everybody seems to be happy? Should we have now our realisation .Alright
Just put your hands like this towards me . Now the first thing that happen that your thoughts stop as soon as your kundalini crosses through the point , the Agnya.can somebody show .
No no i show you here . because the thoughts come to you from ego and superego .It travels between the two .
And you don’t see any thoughts like between the two waves coming .
This silence .
And when the kundalini crosses this point of fontanel bone it you called as tallu where you get the baptism then you feel that throbbing here .And you get the cool breeze coming out from your hand . this is called realisation.That cool breeze is coming from your spirit .First time you start feeling the spirit on your hands in your centre nervous system and you actually feel it .
When this breeze comes in ,then even you start feeling others ,you can feel their chakras ,you can feel your chakras and you can know where the problem is ?
Once it is stationed here as i said it takes time in some people and some people it works all the time ,then you achieve that state of bliss and joy .In which you become a share instrument ,a hollow personality through which he divine power flows and you just see its manifestation.
Please close your eyes
Long pause
Just tell yourself let it go ...let it go ... Don’t think about it Let it go ....That is why you are here .
Are you getting cool breeze in your hands .
Good ,Joe just see this gentlemen .
Are you getting cool breeze
Are you getting cool breeze
Are you getting , good.
[unclear]