On Torsion Area 2000-09-23
23 September 2000
On Torsion Area
Public Program
Holiday Inn London - Kensington Forum Hotel, London (England)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) - Reviewed
2000-09-23 VIP Reception, London, UK, DP-RAW
I bow to all the seekers of Truth. These are special times that we have so many seekers of Truth.
Surprisingly so many people these days want to know what is the truth. And the result some of them are lost also. But what is the truth, the truth is that you are not this body, this mind, this emotions this intelligence so called but you are the true spirit. All the scriptures have said that unless and until you know yourselves how you will know the divine. Because if we don’t know ourselves really we are not equipped to know the divine and so to know yourself is so important. This one is a thing people don’t understand because mostly they are written in poetry. And all of them has said that you should know yourself but how would you know yourself your self is within and not without. So how to enter inside to know yourself is the problem. This problem is really so great that keeps out many people from the knowledge of knowing. Now I must tell you about myself that I myself has felt that people have a big big problem of knowing themselves though I knew myself very well. How to make others knowledgeable about themselves so I tried first to see problems of the people . Many people that my own I should say my subtler intelligence what’s the matter why can’t they feel themselves why can’t they understand themselves what is the problem in their being that they can’t see and I must have tried to see many many people and I realized that there must be some way by which you can find out the method by which people can get the self realization in a collective way because any discovery is for one person or for one or two person at the most is of no help on the contrary those who were self realized people were all tortured troubled suffered crucified you know that very well so if it happens collectively it would be solving many problems.
Because I know if you become yourself, you become really transformed and you become a very different person. Now if you see the problems we have now in those days are terrible problems and most of them are from human beings. Not from other calamities but mostly from human beings because human beings are in ignorance and they start finding their own groups or things like that. You have all kinds of violence, all kinds of atrocities and God knows all the things I think. All these problems can be solved, I knew if they are transformed but now how to transform was the problem? So I told you that I studied many, many people. Thank God my father was a very social-minded fellow, my husband also, I could meet many people and then I realized that this power of Kundalini which is at the base of your spinal cord is not awakened in them. It’s still sleeping. If it is awakened, then the problem can be solved. This, like the prelude in seed, you see. It is resting there. It’s not yet awakened. So I said to myself, I must learn how to awaken this Kundalini. If I could do that, then we can also do it collectively. I can work it out. After some time, I really discovered the method by which we could awaken the Kundalini of many people but first, it started with one person and about twelve and later on, you know now, we can awaken the Kundalini of many people. And those who are awakened and are keeping it can awaken the Kundalini of many others. So they become entitled (?), become like masters. And they can give realization to others. They say that now Sahaja Yoga is in ninety-six country. That’s what they say. Whatever it is, it is only because some people got realization, mastered it and they went out and did it. You’ll be amazed in the country like Benin, which was all Islamic country, there are 9,000 Sahaja yogis. There are seven countries there which were governed by the French. They all are in it. So you can understand how it was necessary that people should have their self-realisation. So they become special people, very peaceful, very wise, very sensible and empowered with this Kundalini to give a temperament which is above all the useless thinking and fighting and all of these things. It just happens. It has to happen is the point. If it doesn’t happen, you cannot argue it out. So then when the Kundalini rises she goes through these centres which have been told already, passes through your fontanel bone area and connects you to the all-pervading power of Divine. And historians call this Torsion area. He says this is Torsion area, how he found the theory of relativity says that he was tired, absolutely fed up. So he went into the garden and was playing with soap bubbles and then somebody come from somewhere, he said, from the unknown area, the knowledge came to him. So that’s the area of absolute knowledge, absolute knowledge. You don’t get knowledge which is relative but absolute. And you can see for yourself how correctly it is. For example, now, there was this national health of, you must have heard about natural health in America. It’s an Institute specially formed to investigate all kinds of news and a new type of adventure about health. And then there was one doctor who asked a Sahaja Yogini. She’s just not a doctor, nothing. All right tell me what’s wrong with me. She said something wrong with her heart. He was amazed. It was only a month back, he had bypass surgery. So you see this is when it happens to you and they’ve shown you here, you can feel on the fingertips, there are different centres. Now, these centres if you see, six of them are above the Kundalini and the seventh one is below there. Now all these six centers and even the seventh one are responsible for our physical, emotional and also our spiritual being. It helps us to be nourished through their energies. They have limited energy and when that energy finishes, we develop them all kinds of physical, emotional and other problems, you can call it psychological problems and we do not know why. But when you get your self-realization, then most of your problems are solved automatically. If not, you know what’s wrong with it and you know also how to cure yourself. If you know how to cure yourself and to get out right you can cure others also because you develop a new dimension which we call as collective consciousness. Who is the other? In this world, who is the other? We are all part and parcel of the same being. So we start feeling, start feeling very clearly on your fingertips, not only your centres but also their centres. And you can cure it if you know how to cure. You can cure your centres as well as cure other people’s. But first of all, you must establish yourself properly. Some people just after one realisation I should have called one seating, they are masters. Really I’ve seen some people being there. But then some people have some kind of problems still on the centres and the Kundalini goes back to that so what you have to do is to learn if any centre is in trouble, how to cure it. That’s all. It’s very simple. You don’t have to be a doctor, philosopher or psychologist or anything. It’s only, as long as you are a human being, you can do it. But, you see the thing is that I think as people say that there’s a defect in Sahaja Yoga, that you don’t charge any money. And they’ve been asking me questions, why don’t you charge money. Now I’ve just told them, that it’s a living process of your evolution. When you sew the seed, how much does the seed charge, or what the gardener charges the seed? It just sprouts by itself. It has that power built in. In the same way, this power is built-in in all of you. You have to have faith in yourself with the (?)that we have that power and why don’t we achieve it? For that, you can’t pay. You can pay for the hall, you can pay for other thing but not for the awakening of the Kundalini. There’s no need. What value will you put for it? It is something very different and you deserve it, that’s why you get it. As simple as that. So you develop the collective consciousness. Apart from that, what happens is that you go beyond the mind. You become one with the torsion area as they call it but you can say the all-pervading power of Divine Love. In other languages, this called Dhruv (?) also. When you become that, when you are connected with that, then what you have to do is to just use that power, that energy. So in countries like India and many others, they believed in all the elements as if the elements have the power. Is the energy, the Divine energy that works. But that you cannot understand unless and until you have got it, that connection with the Divine power. Everybody can get their power, there’s no separation according to your caste, community, race, anything. Is every human being can get their realisation and the time as well. The time has come because is the last judgement, what you think and what you get is very important. You should decide as to know the knowledge, to get to yourself to your spirit. Once you have it, you’ll be amazed at how you know so many things about others and about this. It’s a remarkable thing that is within but we are not yet aware of it perhaps, we haven’t got it. For this, this collective consciousness is so beautiful. You see sitting here you can know about anybody. Sitting here you can cure anybody. You can do so many things, I mean you are capable of doing, you can become an expert in this. And I mean you can solve the problem of this world. It is a global activity. It’s nothing to do with your boundaries of your country or anything. It’s very global and then it works. It works globally. So we’ll have to have one global feeling, awareness within yourself, which it works out. Thoughtless awareness is very, very important because thoughtless awareness is the one where you become connected with the Divine power. Then you do not think, what is there to think? The Divine power is thinking for you. By thinking about what happens you become very reactive. You react to everything. Everything you see, you react. You cannot witness it. Everything he wants to react. Now everybody has different reactions. All fighting a lot. Once you see something and you can become absolutely a witness, then you develop that witness stage which is very important. That way I don’t know how many thousand lectures I’ve given, but one has to understand that unless and until you desire it, it can’t happen. Because it’s a pure desire. Kundalini is the power of pure desire. If you do not have that pure desire, nobody can force you to have it. It cannot be forced. You cannot propagate like that. It is a desire of the people that act, and works. Now we have so many types of ideas, as far as religion is concerned. As far as incarnations are concerned, I mean all sorts. But what have you achieved out of them? Have you got your self-realisation? Have you known yourself? That’s the main question you should ask and then take to Sahaja Yoga. Sahaja Yoga means, Sahaj means spontaneous, Yoga means union with the Divine. That first thing should happen. Now many people have asked me what about Patanjali Yoga and this yoga and that? That time, long time back, Patanjali yoga started. It was the other way round that they used to first cleanse your body, cleanse your mind, then they used to give you realisation to one person among at least one lakh of people. So you can imagine, what must be the progress. I just thought of it this way, that why not give them realization first. If they have their realisation, then they can see for themselves what’s wrong with them and then they’ll correct it. It’s better. These days, to say something to someone is so difficult you know. When you see yourself you’re in difficulty and then you see yourself, there’s something wrong with you, you definitely will cure it. And this is the other way around it started and it has worked wonders. And I think it has worked everywhere very well and it should work also in England. I’ve lived here very long in England but I must say Sahaja Yoga is not that fast as it could have been. I don’t know what is the reason for that. And today is a very good day when you all people are here, so eminent people. So capable people, that if you take it up, you can save the whole world. Not only you can save yourself but you can save the whole world. It is very important to understand what you are. Most importantly, you don’t know what you are. Tomorrow some drunkards tell you that you have got cancer. In Sahaja Yoga, immediately you’ll know that you have to develop some sort of thin air (?). Also, you’ll know how to cure it. This is just for the disease but there are other things we do which we should not have done but we do it because it is a mind that is very compulsive and makes you do things which you should not do but only through Sahaja Yoga, you will know that this is destructive. You should know what is constructive and what is destructive. All that knowledge you can get. There are people who tell all kinds of stories I’ve heard from some gurus also that they’ve said you can’t get Gyanamarg). This is a Gyanamarg. Gyan means knowledge. You should, you are all are pravruti margi This it’s actually an abuse. Meaning you run after everything, this is sort of person (?). And that you tried pravruti marg . So, give it to the gurus. You come to the guru. Nothing happens. That’s not going to happen. If you are really genuinely interested in yourself and in others then you just take your self-realisation. Without self-realisation, you cannot understand yourself and others. And also you know how to correct yourself and solve your problems. So many solutions are there and they are all there in your own being, which you should take it. I don’t know how hard to go with it but I would say there is a very cosmopolitan group here. Some are doctors, psychologists and all that. So I can talk to them separately about it or you can understand that we have our psyche within us and we have our right side as you all call it this. These are to be understood. With the left side is the psyche. Now I don’t know psychologists have put this (?), especially I have seen. Even you, you committed a mistake when you said that these are all horizontal consciousness, different consciousness. They’re horizontal. They’re not horizontal. This is in just (?) made a big mistake. So then if you say that, then you have to go to the subconscious or to this and that. They’re not horizontal. Here you see very clearly, left side is on this side. This is the psyche and the right side by which you think and work. Imagine, they’re two separate things and in between is the way you can call the path of the Kundalini. See, our creator is a very wise person. She would not have done such a mess and so He (?) has kept one side. This side and the other side as well. Also mostly we are very hardworking. You work really hard, think about the future all the time. Then your right side gets covered. Now if you are a psych, psychological person, you go on worrying about things and feeling very sad about something. I mean all kinds of psychological problems. They are, they cause problems to this left side. So we have this left side and right side. The religion came to give us the balance. With the balance what will happen that it would be obstructing our growth and that’s why these two are very important. One is the emotional side and another is the, you can call, it the thinking side. Now when these two are in action, they can create problems. They can create imbalances so psychologists start dealing with the left side and doctors are dealing with the right side. Now I have to tell you that you should be with the center. Now the left and right side both of them join together like this and form the center. These are the chakras. These are the chakras and when you go too much on the right or too much on the left, which starts going on like that and that it breaks. And then you fall into the problem of the left side or the right side. So in Sahaja Yoga there are only two types of people, left and right side and the ones who are realized souls. In the same way, everybody has this problem. So there’s solution for psychological things, for your physical things or other problems also there is solution in Sahaja Yoga. This is what you have to know very well yourself, so you can cure yourself as well as cure others. I would like to have some questions from you because I don’t know what to say.
A woman in audience: Yes, I think you are in a bit an imposition to just presume that you will need (?). (??)
Man on side of the stage: Erm, Shri Mataji, are we right to just presume that people need to be healed? Are we right to presume, just to presume that human beings need to be healed?
Shri Mataji: A bit too close to your mouth.
(Audience laugh)
Man on side of stage: Shri Mataji, are we right just to presume all people need help, that they need our help, that they need to be healed. Have we got the right to presume that?
Shri Mataji: I mean I don’t see what is the problem.
(Audience laugh)
Shri Mataji: I mean, if you are all right, you shall perfectly all right, you would definitely like to help others also. It’s a temperament, changes. You are transformed and with this temperament, you want to help others. And you help them without expecting any return already.
A woman in audience: Maybe people don’t actually want to be transformed. Maybe they’re happy to be themselves, as they are. That’s what I mean...
Man on side of the stage: She’s saying there are people who are happy with themselves as they are.
Shri Mataji: But they are ignorant.
(Audience laughs)
Shri Mataji: When some calamity comes on them, then they realise.
A woman in audience: Shri Mataji, that is a sweeping generalisation.
Shri Mataji: It just shows that they are not seeking.
A woman in audience: But they are. They are seeking different things. Maybe different kinds of things.
Man in audience: Shri Mataji, I think we should ask you a question and allow you to answer. We shouldn’t have a debate. There are people with other questions. Maybe later you can use and if you want to argue with us.
A woman in audience: No, not an argument.
Man in audience: Could be a waste of time. Let’s have, let’s have questions to Shri Mataji and then we’ll listen to the answer and see what wisdom She has to give us then.
A woman in audience: I just want to know how is it some people seem to be sociable beings? Like you said your husband your parents? Other people always seem to be, feel outside of society like they never belong. They may go through the motions but they never really belong. Can you, can you...? You see them as not being, must be different from other people? Or, how do you see those people?
Man on side of the stage: The lady says there seem to be two kinds of people. There are two types of people she said. One type is sociable and the other type is withdrawn. And is that all right? Some people on the right side, some people on the left side.
Shri Mataji: I don’t think in this there is any type. This is nothing typifying. Then anybody is alright. We shouldn’t say that such people are rude and such people are not. There may be some, who may not like to do it but doesn’t matter. The other day I had one fellow from star television and he was asking me all the funny questions you know. I said where are you going? You are asking me all these stupid questions. And immediately he felt you know cool breeze in his hands. He says, what has happened? That’s what happened, is the answer. Then he kept quiet. Is the experience. You must have the experience of the Divine power. And then you become very creative. You start creating new Sahaja Yogis, doing this. There is no, nothing like a typical person, I tell you. I’ve seen people who are extremely aggressive with me. Very aggressive. They got their realization, surprisingly. So I wouldn’t say really anything typical about people who are seeking.
Man on side of the stage: Yes, please.
A woman in audience: What do you think about all the complementary therapies that are now in action?
Man on side of the stage: Shri Mataji, what do you think about the alternative therapies?
Shri Mataji: See I’m not here to criticize anyone. What I’m saying all, any-any therapy should be based on proper diagnosis and unless and until you are a self-realized person, you cannot know what’s wrong with you or with others. So first you should be self-realized personality so that you will know what’s wrong with you and with wrong with others. Also, you will know which way it will work out. So there’s nothing to criticize them. You see they are all, I don’t know, why they do it but they’re doing it. It’s-it’s one thing, I tell you. This-these chakras are difficult. If somebody wants, he can shift the energy of one chakra to another chakra but don’t cure the person. So the treatment should be for all the centres. Otherwise, it is useless.
A woman in audience: Can you, can I raise our Kundalini?
Man on side of the stage: The lady wants to know if you will raise our Kundalinis tonight.
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, I will.
Man in audience: I think I heard in the video that you actually went to medical school? Or receiving medical training. Did I hear right? Did you actually qualify as a doctor?
Man on side of the stage: He’s just asking about your medical training Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Not much.
(Audience laughs)
Shri Mataji: Actually I did medicine just to find out the names that Doctors use because I’ll have to talk to Doctors you see so I should know the terminologies. But that is different. Medical science is all right but it is limited.
Man in audience: I would, I would agree with that.
(Audience laughs and claps)
Man in audience: ... lots of things (?)
Man on side of the stage: Are you a doctor?
Man in audience: I am.
Man on side of the stage: The gentleman is a Doctor Mother and he agrees with you.
Shri Mataji: We have some Doctors in Sahaja Yoga and once they have taken to Sahaja Yoga because they see the miracles of Sahaja Yoga and they have to believe it. Then they want to know how it is done. So it is still very limited because it’s all outside, nothing inside.
Man in audience: (?)
Man on side of the stage: Can self-realisation is only be obtained through yourself Shri Mataji or other members who are self-realised in Sahaja Yoga or can people achieve it through other routes?
Man in audience: How to get self-realisation Shri Mataji? Is it only through you? Or can it also be through other Sahaja Yogis or other people?
Shri Mataji: Of course. Other Sahaja Yogis also can. Like one candle can enlighten another candle and if another candle is enlightened, you can enlightened others also.
Man in audience: The question’s actually could it be obtained without, with Sahaja Yoga by not through either Shri Mataji or other Sahaja Yogis but outside that altogether.
Man on side of stage: Is it possible to get self-realisation by other means?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know of any.
(Audience laughs)
Shri Mataji: It is only the Kundalini I’ve seen that works.
Man on side of the stage: This lady.
A woman in audience: Would you say that self-realisation cause you to (???) certain things... (?)
Man on side of the stage: The lady is asking if it’s necessary that we should go to different paths and have different experiences before we desire self-realisation.
Shri Mataji: You can if you want to but if you ask me, there’s only one way is Kundalini awakening. And if somebody says he knows how to do the Kundalini awakening, you can see for yourself. You see what I’m saying, I would not say no to anything but I (?) as far as I’m concerned, this is the safest way, in the real way which I’m trying (?).
A woman in audience: And how long does it take? Self-realised the Kundalini?
Man on side of the stage: She wants to know how long it takes.
Shri Mataji: Split of a sec. Could be. Could be. Takes no time. Just try this. It works out. (?)
A woman in audience: Would you know you are self-realised? I mean...
Man on side of the stage: How do you know when you are self-realized?
Shri Mataji: The experience is that you start feeling a cool or sometimes hot breeze also from your fingertips or on your palm or out of your, on your head, you start feeling it, very clear. It’s the experience.
A woman in audience: Well then, you are, you are perfect? You are perfect? So at the end of the day, once you feel that self-realisation, how would you know you need to go further anymore?
Man on side of the stage: Does that mean you have arrived? Have you finished developing once you feel that? Is that the final path of you arrive?
Shri Mataji: Not for everyone. I’ve seen, I used to think, should be final but I find people are quite complicated. So, need some time. Some more help. But it works out, works out ultimately it works out. If you have some trouble, say physical trouble, feel some little trouble, something like that you see sometimes your chakras are not yet fully nourished. Can be anything so it can be worked out. It should be. It should be once only, I felt that way always. it’s not.
Man on side of the stage: Any other questions?
A woman in audience: You said to know ourselves, to know the Divine, we have to know ourselves. What is the way to know ourselves? How can you do that?
Man on side of the stage: Shri Mataji, you said, to know the Divine, we need to ourselves. How can we do it?
Shri Mataji: How can?
Man on side of the stage: How can we do ourselves?
Shri Mataji: That’s what I’m going to do. Through Kundalini awakening, through this power. Through this power only you can become yourself because you are connected. As if this is not connected supposing, it doesn’t work but if it is connected to the mains, it works. Just like that, very simple.
A woman in audience: When you spoke about the two, the right and left side coming together like this, it reminds me what Boomi (?) say was centred.
Man on side of the stage: We come into the centre, she said. When you showed it opening, the opposite is coming into the centre.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what.
A woman in audience: We are saying in our (?)
Shri Mataji: You come in the centre and the Kundalini also is very wonderful because if she sees little bit trouble there, it tries to bring it back and you know mylantis (?) She’s very good. She’s your mother. She’s your mother only and you are her child and she wants to give you your second birth. She is so careful. She does it, she’s been waiting for ages now.
Man in audience: We have experienced the power of your love. The Mother’s love. To us, that is enough. What do you have to say about that?
Man on side of the stage: The gentleman says we have experienced through you the power of the Mother’s love. We’ve experienced your love Shri Mataji. What else is needed?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I mean you have to experience is the point. Whatever I may say, you shouldn’t believe. You shouldn’t believe me. You should experience yourself, your own powers and see for yourself how it works. Because only I can say you all have this power. All have it.
A woman in audience: Are you saying Sahaja Yoga is the only way to unlock it?
Man on side of the stage: Is Sahaja Yoga the only way to unlock that power which we all have?
Shri Mataji: Yes it is. That’s the only way. Sahaja means spontaneous. It doesn’t mean anything more than that. It’s spontaneous happening. Yoga means union with the Divine. So it’s very spontaneous. That’s the only way. It cannot be worked out. Very spontaneous
A woman in audience: Are you saying spontaneity can lead to faith? Is it being, in (?) around the corner? Are is it just a (?)
Man on side of the stage: Do you need to have faith? Do you need to have faith?
Shri Mataji: Have faith in yourself. You must have faith in yourself. That’s very important.
A woman in audience: Fate.
Man on side of the stage: Fate? Ah. Do you believe in fate?
Shri Mataji: Fate?
Man on side of the stage: Do you believe in fate? Destiny?
Shri Mataji: You see what I’m saying, first of all, you get your realization. These things are not important. Whatever is the destiny, is destiny. Also, destinies have changed with Sahaja Yoga I’ve seen.
A woman in audience: Are you essentially saying that this type of yoga is not necessarily a technique for more consciousness. Is it a consciousness as opposed to something you do? A decision that you make, to be at one to know yourself and know that you’re at one with the rest of the beings and everything that is in existence.
Man on side of the stage: The gentleman is saying he thinks he sees that Sahaja Yoga is not a technique that you do but it is a change of consciousness, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Of course. You have transformed. You are absolutely transformed and you become very secure with. Apart from that, you start seeing everything from a different angle because you become a witness. You don’t react. It changes you completely. So that is the technique only starts after getting realization. After getting realisation, you should know how to purify yourself, should know how to awaken the Kundalini of others. It is also spontaneous because you are capable. You are the one who has a right to get it. I think it’s your birthright to get it. All right?
Man in audience: Yes, thank you.
Man on side of the stage: Another question?
A woman in audience: You’ve talked about, you’ve talked about feeling with your hands and the feeling up here. Can I ask why I already get that but I’ve never done Sahaja Yoga?
Man on side of the stage: The lady says she’s not done Sahaja Yoga but she does feel flow in her hands and in her head.
Shri Mataji: That’s very good. There’s no need to do Sahaja Yoga, it can happen to you. But if it had not happened to you, then better do Sahaja Yoga. All right? But even after, I have known people who are born realized but they don’t know anything about it. They just know they are realized Souls but you should know the knowledge, the absolute knowledge about yourself and about others. That’s very important
Man in audience: What about awakening Kundalini with mentally ill people?
Man on side of the stage: Is it valuable? Is that what you mean?
Man in audience: Yeah, I mean. Is it possible? Is it dangerous?
Man on side of the stage: Can you awaken the Kundalini of people who are mentally ill Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Who are?
Man on side of the stage: Mentally ill.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. You can but you better not try. They are difficult people. You can awaken the Kundalini of the sick, of the people who are mentally sick. You can do it but I would advise you shouldn’t do that till you are perfectly all right. You have to be a master then it’s all right.
Man in audience: Do you believe in conventional methods?
Man on side of the stage: Belief in? What do you mean?
Man in audience: I mean... they are alternative structures?
Man on side of the stage: Does Shri Mataji believe in the explanations?
Man in audience: No, the labels. For example, schizophrenia.
Shri Mataji: What is he asking?
Man on side of the stage: Do you believe in the labels which are put on in the modern world put on mental illnesses? Do you believe in schizophrenia?
Shri Mataji: Of course there is schizophrenia. It can be cured also. Can be. It is there, whether you believe it or not, it is there. Some people have been cured of schizophrenia, especially in America. Only we don’t handle two diseases. One is this Alzheimer’s because mostly these people are extremely aggressive. They’ve been all their lives. And even when they get it, they become very aggressive. They start abusing you, saying all kinds of thing, not easy to handle them. Very difficult. When they ask questions, you should know they believe.
Man on side of the stage: Oh this one?
Shri Mataji: Yes?
A woman in audience: Can you awaken the Kundalini in a pregnant woman?
Shri Mataji: What?
Man on side of the stage: Can you awaken the Kundalini in a pregnant woman?
A woman in audience: Is it okay?
Man on side of the stage: Is it all right?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.
Man in audience: Do you believe in reincarnations?
Shri Mataji: What?
Man on side of the stage: Do you believe in reincarnations Mother?
Shri Mataji: Indeed, reincarnations are there. It’s nothing to doubt it. It’s not important. After realization, you get your new birth. So all these the incarnations and are all finished. You become nothing but the spirit. See lots have been written about this and that and people know all about it. Firstly, you know yourself. Then you’ll know everything.
Man in audience: Shri Mataji, (?) people with schizophrenia. How they were cured? How long it took and by what method did that happen? Was it after self-realisation? (?)
Man on side of the stage: Shri Mataji, a specific question about using Sahaja Yoga to treat mental illness. I think there are people here who work with patients who have mental illnesses and the question is how long would you say it takes to cure somebody who-who has schizophrenia but with Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: You just can’t say, you know. Sometimes, it hardly takes anything. You just can’t say. There’s no time limit in Sahaja Yoga. It is beyond time. It might work out immediately. It may take a little more time. And I’ve seen people of cancer being cured in no time but also ordinary trouble, they are still lingering on so I can’t say why. So it’s nothing definite. Mostly it works very fast. Mostly.
Man in audience: Sorry, you said earlier on that you have trouble with people with Alzheimer’s disease. I mean there’s an explanation for that because our centres are probably (?)
Man on side of the stage: He is suggesting that the reason that we have trouble trying to treat people with Alzheimer’s disease is that their chakras are already destroyed Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: It happens. I agree, that chakras are destroyed and all that but first your chakras should be strong. You should be fully nourished. You should be perfectly all right. Then you will make out what chakras is spoilt. Also, you will know how to correct it. Then you can definitely help him. It’s knowledge. You are asking me for medical studies and all that. It takes seven years to tell medicine. For Sahaja Yoga, one year more the assumption (?) for anyone.
Man in audience: You don’t-you don’t see the Kundalini. Are you are you saying that because you don’t want to? Is there another reason or is it just cause you don’t want to see it?
Man on side of the stage: If you don’t get Kundalini awakening, is it simply because you don’t desire it, Mother? Or is there another reason?
Shri Mataji: No, if you want, you will always get it. No problems. If you don’t want, I cannot force you. Cannot be. You have to desire it. But I have yet to come across people who don’t want it, normally. It’s such a great thing, you know?
Man in audience: Do you believe that medical conditions that we label are actually something that is separate and distinct from each other? Or do you feel that there may be the same problem manifesting differently through different people?
Man on side of the stage: We label different diseases differently.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Man on side of the stage: We label diseases differently but is there a cause of ill health, of dysfunction, which is the same in all people, in different people? Is there a single cause of dysfunction disease?
Shri Mataji: Course?
Man on side of the stage: Cause Shri Mataji. The thing that makes the disease. What causes disease? Is it individual to the person or is there something which is causing disease in different people?
Shri Mataji: Yeah
Man in audience: That may manifest itself differently. That we give a label to.
Shri Mataji: But we don’t go to the causes. We go to the chakras only because causes can be quite embarrassing. Better talk more the chakras. All right? It’s better. And they don’t feel embarrassed.
Man on side of the stage: So that’s the answer. It’s the chakras which may cause different symptoms.
Shri Mataji: Like a, you see...
Man in audience: So in other words interferences in the chakras, let’s say. Is that right?
Man on side of the stage: His understanding Shri Mataji when there is something wrong with the functioning of the chakra, it could produce different diseases.
Shri Mataji: No, it won’t. You see it’s a generalization I would say. All these types are generalized. For example, if the first chakra is catching all right? You can feel it. Where? Either here or here. If it is feeling, you’re feeling it here, that means right side, this is the left side. Now all HIV people feel it here (Points left hand). So it’s very easy but you need not to see HIV.
Man in audience: I-I just want to expand, just asking a question to the answer. If one chakra is out of balance, wouldn’t that cause the other chakras to be out of balance as well?
Man on side of the stage: So another question Shri Mataji. If one chakra is out of balance, will it cause other chakras also to be out of balance?
Shri Mataji: Could be, could not be. Depends on them how much the disease has progressed. It depends but that’s not your headache. What we have to see, what chakras and trouble. Then you try to improve those chakras. If you have to improve the chakras, you will be all right.
Man in audience: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: It’s a new-new venture.
Man in audience: Do babies and young children have this energy naturally flowing and then they lose it or as the genuine second birth required?
Man on side of the stage: Children and young babies, do they have this energy flowing already?
Shri Mataji: Some of them have. Some of them have. They are great people, born to save all of us.
Man on side of the stage: Can they lose it Shri Mataji? The second question, if they are born with this open.
Shri Mataji: Of course they are. They are born.
Man on side of the stage: Can they lose it Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Man on side of the stage: Can they lose it?
Shri Mataji: Of course they can. Any other?
A woman in audience: Once that you mentioned now they lose it, can they regain it?
Man on side of the stage: Once you’ve lost, it can you regain it? Can you get it again?
Shri Mataji: That’s it. You have seen the point. We have everything in time. Actually, our innocence is our loss. But it’s hiding, like-like the moon can hide with the clouds around it but it is all there. Beautiful.
A woman in audience: It’s a personal question more. I am the mother of autistic children, child and as far as I know there’s a number of children with this is crazy, especially America. Is it
Shri Mataji: (?)
A woman in audience: Is there an explanation of this? From your point of view? And how you can help with that?
Man on side of the stage: Shri Mataji, there are several questions. This lady says she has an autistic child.
Shri Mataji: What?
Man on side of the stage: Autistic. The child is autistic. She says there are more and more autistic children, particularly in America. Is there an explanation for increasing autism in America?
Shri Mataji: I’m happy to know that your attention is on these people but we have to first pay attention to ourselves. Once we are all right, then we can look after all kinds. But it’s a good idea we have attention on other people, that we are worried about them but first of all, if you are not fully fledged Sahaja Yogi, it’s difficult to help them.
Man on side of the stage: You have to cure yourself first. Shall we-shall we have the experience?
Shri Mataji: There’s one more.
Man on side of the stage: Somebody.
Man in audience: What’s good to have some specific examples of to cure or strengthen chakras or several chakras at a time or some just actual concrete examples of how that’s done.
Man on side of the stage: He wants specific information about particular, how to help particular channels or particular chakras.
Shri Mataji: First you get all right. First, you should be fully equipped with knowledge. Then you will not ask me any question, I know because you will know.
Man on side of the stage: The physician has to be cured first and then you know what to do that’s what She’s saying. You have to cure yourself or allow yourself to be cured and then you can do it.
Shri Mataji: Now. I’m just hoping that all of you should get self-realisation and then you should perfect yourself and you should (?). Then afterwards only thing that is expected that you try to give Sahaja Yoga to others. Help others. We have to solve (?), not our problem of this country but of all the world’s problem. We can do a lot. So because I always felt that England is a place from everything that circulates. Everything. Whatever you do here, it circulates. So it’s very important for you to get your self-realisation, master it to spread it all over. You should not be temporarily only for yourself, that won’t be good. It should be for other people also. You need not to try first, very difficult disease people. You try first of all with normal people, then you can try with others also. All right? That should be the promise. Now, what we have to do is...