TV Asia Interview 1994-08-07
7 August 1994
Interview
Interview
New Delhi (India)
Talk Language: Hindi | Translation (Hindi to English) - Reviewed
Host : Mataji, first of all my Namaskar to you, and I wish for your blessings that if I make any mistakes in whatever questions I am going to ask, (for that) please forgive me.
When did you first realise that you have some sort of power within you or with this divine power that you have, you can cure people or understand the feelings in the hearts of others?
Shri Mataji : Firstly, I do not have any desire to know about the feelings in peoples’ hearts. Secondly, when a person is born, he knows that he is human. Similarly, when I was born I knew who I was and what powers did I have within myself. And I also knew what work I had to do, the reason for which I had come into this world. I knew it from my childhood.
Host : From childhood you knew that, but how did all this begin? How did all this progress, or when did you start working on this?
Shri Mataji : I started this work when I was 47 years old, but until then I kept meeting with many people. I had also stayed with Gandhiji. Gandhiji was also an evolved soul who used to tell me, “Child, see that until this country becomes independent, this work cannot start because we are not free. So after there is freedom, only then all this can be possible. And the book that he wrote, the collection of hymns, Bhajanawali, he had also discussed with me before writing. Which Chakra is in the beginning, which chakra comes later, he wrote according to that order, and he believed in all religions. And the essence of all religions is the same. Just as on a single tree, many flowers grew, according to their own time, and those we plucked, and those that dried up, we keep fighting about them! But the essence of all religions is only one. And we get the same thing from all of them.
So I had this awareness from the childhood, I did not get this from some formal education, I knew it by myself from the beginning.
Host : You were aware from your childhood. Your family, your mother and father, did they encourage you?
Shri Mataji : A lot. My father was a very learned man, an evolved soul, and he was a member of the Central Assembly at that time, of the Parliament and of the Constituent Assembly, he was a member of all these.
So I have met all such types of people. It was due to meeting with so many persons like them, I would think what are they lacking within themselves because of which they can not get Self-Realisation? And even if that was possible, a person could give Self-Realisation to only one other person then there would not be any significant achievement by itself.
If there is any discovery, say for example, electricity was discovered, if a discovery is limited to just one single person then it does not mean much. It has to reach the masses, and this was to be my work, I knew. I needed to find out a technique by which thousands would definitely benefit by getting Self-Realisation.
Host : So they encouraged you...
Shri Mataji : They encouraged me greatly.
Host : But when you would go to school, during school or college days, the other students, how did they feel, that what she is saying. Or did you discuss this with them?
Shri Mataji : No, I never told them about this. But everyone understands love. Therefore, anyone who ever met me since my childhood till now, none of them have ever forgotten me. Because love is the biggest, most precious thing.
Host : As you told us at 47 years of age you set out to do this work. Many a times it happens that many children after their birth or till they reach 2 or 3 years of age, being reborn, remember and talk about their past lives, and then it is considered or understood that yes, they strengthen the facts about rebirth. Was this also the case with you, did you tell about your earlier lifetimes?
Shri Mataji : Yes, but now there is no use of my remembering all these things from past births. Because they are not important as such. However, what is important is this day in the present time. That is, what is the work which I have to do today?
Previously also, there were many incarnations, many Gurus, many Sat-gurus, but they could not give en-masse realisation because the people also did not have the wisdom. Like Saint Kabir Das has said, “How do I explain if the whole world is blind?”
Today, in this Kalyug itself there is this unique thing that people are seeking the truth due to their fears. Thousands of people are seeking and this is specially because of many seers who had come. Even here, there was William Blake who had written that there will come a time when people become seekers to know the truth, they will not accept just anything as true.
Host : In your view what is the truth?
Shri Mataji : Truth means that you are not this body, not even this mind, not your conditionings, nor your ego. You are the pure soul. This is the first truth.
The second truth is that every living process that happens in this world, like the creation of this flower, the sun coming up, the sun going down, the changing of the seasons, everything is the work of a power that we call as ‘Paramchaitanya’. And in Urdu we call it Ruh. And what we call as the formless Power, which is doing all this work. Therefore, our connection should be with this power. When our Yoga (union) is established with this power, then all of a sudden we are transformed from inside.
This part everyone has said that you have to be transformed, every religion has talked about this, but people do not pay attention to this. Most are money oriented or power oriented, which is meaningless.
Host : But in today’s age, what we can call as mechanical, with things happening at such a fast pace, so it’s all right that man works for money and continues to work with a greed for it, but as you said there will also be this seeking for the truth so that he realises that this sun, or the moon, the flowers, all this is the truth. So how is it possible to get people into thinking about leaving aside money, do not run after money.
Shri Mataji : They leave it. It is left behind. It happens by itself.
Host: They leave that? How do you make them realise this?
Shri Mataji : Now there is this power within you, that is the Kundalini Shakti and we have known about this from the beginning of time, it’s nothing new. When this power awakens and it gets connected with the all pervading loving creation of the God Almighty, this oneness is established and then suddenly man becomes completely transformed.
Host: Where is this Kundalini? What is it?
Shri Mataji : In the triangular bone that we call as the sacrum, it is settled there. Now in this triangular bone that we have within us, which the people of Greece call sacrum, and they who say that this is sacrum also know why it is so, and are aware about this Kundalini Shakti. And you can see with your eyes in many people, when this power awakens. During the time when this Kundalini rises, just as the heart throbs or pulsates, similarly this bone also pulsates. And so after the Kundalini rises and goes above your head, and on the top of the fontanelle bone area on the head, cool breeze starts flowing. And on your hands and fingers as well, the cool breeze begins to flow.
[Shri Mataji giving Self-Realisation to new seekers]
Now you have to use your right hand to give encouragement to your centres on the left hand side.
Now put your hand on the upper portion of your abdomen. On the left hand side. If you become the spirit, you become your own guide, you become your own guru, your own master.
Now you move your hand to the lower portion of your abdomen, on the left hand side. This is the centre for the divine laws. Surprisingly, it is so low as this.
Then you move this right hand again upwards, on to the top, the upper part of the abdomen, press it hard. Then on your heart again.
Then in the angle of your shoulder and your neck and put your hand to your right. Then you take your right hand onto the forehead, across, and please put down your head. Now take back your hand on the back side of your head and push back your head.
This is the centre for your whole self, of your power on top of the fontanelle bone area. Now please put down, put down your head and you have to move the scalp slowly with a pressure, clockwise seven times, slowly. That’s all you have to do, that’s all.
Now we have to close our eyes and put the right hand on the heart. You can call me, “Mother” or “Shri Mataji”, whatever you like.
“Mother”, ask the question three times in your heart, not loudly.
“Mother, am I the spirit?” ask this question three times.
“Mother, am I the spirit?” Now please take your right hand to the upper portion of the abdomen, and please take down your hand to the lower portion of your abdomen and press it hard.
I cannot force pure knowledge on you. You have to ask for it. This centre has got six petals, so you have to ask six times, “Mother, please give me pure knowledge.” Unless and until you ask, I cannot force it upon you. Six times, please ask. As soon as you ask this question, the kundalini starts rising. And when she starts rising, we have to support our centres with our self confidence.
So now raise your right hand on the upper portion of your abdomen, on the left hand side. And here, you have to say with full self-confidence, “Mother, I am my own master.” This centre is created by great masters for us to be enlightened with the pure spirit.
Now raise your right hand into the corner of your neck and shoulder and turn your head to your right. So now raise your right hand on top of your forehead across and please put down your heads, it is important. Here you have to say with full confidence, not count how many times, “Mother, I forgive everyone!” In general. Connect this centre........(Unclear)
You have always tortured yourself and now not forgiving at this important moment in time if you don’t forgive, the Kundalini cannot pierce through, so please forgive. Please forgive everyone, don’t think about them, but please forgive. It is very important.
Now please take your right hand to the back side of your head and push back your head. “O Divine power, if I have done any mistakes, knowingly or unknowingly, please forgive me.” Please stretch your hand fully and put your centre of your palm on top of this and move your scalp. Slowly, very slowly, seven times and say, “Mother, please give me Self-Realisation.” It cannot be forced, I am sorry to say. So please put down your head and say it.
(Shri Mataji blows into the mike.)
Now, please open your eyes, do it slowly. Put on your glasses. Put both the hands towards me, now watch me without thinking. You can do it.
Please watch me without thinking. Now put the right hand towards me like this, put down your head and see for yourself only, you have to verify yourself. See for yourself if there is a cool breeze like or hot breeze also can come. It’s coming out of your fontanelle bone area. Bend your head, then you will be able to feel it.
Just see for yourself because some people get far away from the limbic....(unclear)......most...
So please adjust and see for yourself if there is a cool breeze coming out of your fontanelle bone area. Your Kundalini is awakened, see now for yourself if there is a cool breeze coming out of your fontanelle bone area. Now if you have not forgiven, it will be hot. So please forgive now.
Anyone who has questions, you can ask me here, “Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?”
Now please put down your hands, put your hands like this, you will feel on your fingertips. All those who felt cool or hot breeze coming out of their fingertips, towards fingertips or on top of their palms or out of their fontanelle bone area, please raise both your hands. See. I bow to you all.
May God bless you all. I bow to you all.
Now you are saintly.....unclear...please believe me, please believe me. But you have to grow with it. You have to grow, for that you have to come to collective. Nobody will charge you any money or anything.
But you have to pay attention to your Self-Realisation and with little understanding, within one month’s time, you will become master in Sahaja Yoga no doubt, maximum. But you have to come to our collective.
(People clapping)
End of Video
Shri Mataji : Now it is a very important thing that many people say such bad things about the Kundalini, that it gets awakened with the sexual act. Not possible at all. Now Mooladhara is situated below the Kundalini and Shri Ganesha is present there and he is your innocence, he is the essence of that. So there is no connection with such acts. However, at that time, a person becomes child like all of a sudden. And Jesus Christ has said that you can come into Heaven only when you become like a child. And the person’s nature changes completely. Their behaviour changes, so many people came to us here in England, many of them are drug addicts. Some of them were in such a terrible shape that they could not even see me when they came in. And after getting cured, they left their addiction overnight.
Host : In one night?
Shri Mataji : Overnight, they gave up drugs. Many of them, many did, in one night. Because by yourself you are strong, you are, but you have to be capable, means you are ‘Sam-arth’, meaning that you should become that what you already have.
Host : That means there should be will power.
Shri Mataji : Yes, meaning that you should realise yourself, connect with your spirit. In that light, like I said yesterday, meaning that with enlightenment, you leave everything else. You become your own guru.
Host : Sahaja Yoga, of which you are the founder, what is this Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji : One should not say that I am the ‘founder’ of this Sahaja Yoga, because Guru Nanak had also told get into “Sahaja Samadhi”, he had said like this. But I have provided a wider format for this, ‘Sah’ means with you, ‘Ja’ means born with. This yoga, this is your birthright and you should achieve this. Without that you cannot become complete.
Host : So this is Sahaja.
Shri Mataji : This is Sahaja.
Host : Mataji, yesterday we saw you perform, and there you also gave a talk at Royal Albert Hall. There was your lecture, which was about Self-Realisation. Mataji, for each person, how can one achieve mastery over the self, how can one recognize what is the true self.
Shri Mataji : Yes, yes.
Host : Please tell us about this in detail. Can we possibly get Self-Realisation in just one meeting, with a single practise?
Shri Mataji : No, no. Means, just as in a seed the sprouting takes place very fast in some cases, in some it takes some more time. In each instance, there is a different way. So the reason is it is a matter of the past life, then there is this lifetime as well. And that is why some take more time and some take less.
But as I am telling now, the people from India, no matter where they are, they get it very soon.
Host : Then what’s the reason for this?
Shri Mataji : Because we live in the “Yoga bhumi”, Land of Yoga, our country is full of ‘Chaitanya’ or vibrations. Only those who can see that, know about it. These people who go from other countries, on reaching, kiss the soil when they get there from the airport. There are vibrations all around.
But we have not turned in that direction. Don’t know what has happened all of a sudden, that as soon as we got our independence, we started running in the other direction. But if we take a look, we will see that there is a great depth within us.
Host : You said that Indians get their Self-Realisation quickly.
Shri Mataji : Very quickly.
Host : But I was very surprised that in Royal Albert Hall, 95% of the people were from the host community, and only 5% were Indians. What was the reason for this?
Shri Mataji : When you people come abroad, don’t know what happens to Indians, everyone becomes a ‘Saheb’, (the way Europeans were addressed in British India), according to me. So now at least 5% are coming. Earlier, not even 1% would come. And even if anyone came, they would sit in the front and leave half way through. (that is why), earlier when they would come, the natives (Indians), these people would tell them to sit at the back, so, they would then ask, “Why? Are you being racist?” They would answer, “No, not because of that, but because you will leave in the middle, we will not allow you to do that.”
Host : Okay.
Shri Mataji : Here these people who have come overseas, they have, what can we say, ....
Host : As they say, their blood has become white!
Shri Mataji : Yes, they have forgotten their own traditions. Like they say in America, “Dollar is our Father, Dollar is our God.” So what can we say to them! But even after getting that, you have not found peace. After getting so much of riches, man has not got satisfactory solutions, because it is the Law of Economics, that wants are not satiable in general.
So, today there is this, tomorrow there will be that, then again after that something. Therefore, your desire is not pure, because what you have got, has not brought you peace, and we are running after something like mad. And after this, the only thing left to find is the realization of your soul. After that a person lives with the Joy within himself. Likewise, take me for instance, I never get bored, while sitting alone, I am joyful from inside.
Host : Now, your talks or this kind of practise takes place always, each day of the year you happen to be somewhere or the other?
Shri Mataji :Yes, that does take place. As it happens, I travel a lot in one year. Now see, I am about to go to France, and after that to Switzerland, and Austria, and it will continue like that afterwards also. Later I will go to the Eastern Bloc, there also, same thing will take place there as well. Like that, I stay in one place for a maximum of 2 to 3 days and then I travel further.
Host : When some people attain such powers, they take undue advantage of that, it becomes a money making objective.
Shri Mataji : No. No money... .
Host : But you are not like that at all.
Shri Mataji : No, in this matter, when someone starts taking money, their vibrations are lost, it’s the end of power from their hands. But (here) the blessings of Lakshmi is received, everyone who is with us has received the blessings from Lakshmi. How they get lots of money nobody knows, it’s a wonder. The problem of money is solved, but if someone wants to make money then we remove him from Sahaja Yoga. If he starts making money then he gets some problem or the other and then he comes asking for forgiveness, saying, ”No, I will not do this from now.” it is very dangerous.”
Host : Mataji, do you have some ashrams?
Shri Mataji : Yes, we have. In London itself, there are ashrams in 22 places.
Host : So every week there are ....
Shri Mataji : Yes, it happens every week, they do... there are different houses where they have made ashrams.
Host : So people gather there and then what happens, do they have lectures?
Shri Mataji : Yes, there are many of my lectures over that they play over there.
Host : Okay, recorded.
Shri Mataji : Yes, the recorded ones which they play. And if there is any problem in anyone’s Kundalini they will tell you which chakras are in a bad state. Like if someone is ill and in pain, they will cure them. Further, if there is any problem in your family, or some such thing, they will solve that as well.
Host : Who gives these solutions over there, are they your disciples?
Shri Mataji : My disciples are available there and they are excellent.
Host : I wanted to ask another thing, when I was there in the audience yesterday at the Royal Albert Hall, I saw there were many scientists and doctors present in large numbers. What is the reason for this, are they more influenced?
Shri Mataji : Science has it’s own principles and when people get to those scientific principles, especially the Russian people, they totally accept that Sahaja is even beyond science. Whatever we talk about these things as science, we say that they can get it proven scientifically. So when they look for that, they are able to find it.
Like I told them that this Mooladhara chakra is made from the carbon atom and the carbon atom has four valency, you can say like four hands. Similarly Shri Ganesha also has four hands. Now people will not believe in Shri Ganesha but people are aware about the carbon atom. So I told them, ”Ok, now take a photo of the carbon atom, and make a model of the same.”
Now if you look at that, if you see it from the right side towards the left side, then you will see a Swastika. From the left side, if you look at its right side, you will see Omkara. And if from the bottom, you look at the top, then Alpha and Omega will be seen together. This means that Christ is the incarnation of Shri Ganesha.
[Video clip playing shows Sahaja Yogis singing the Bhajan, Vishwa Vandita]
Host : Mataji, one more thing, please excuse me first, I should have asked this earlier, but I will definitely want to ask it because maybe this is also the question many of our viewers are having.
Shri Mataji : Yes
Host : When everyone prays to you and open their palms in front of you, so how do you feel, that I am a human being and people are praying to me.
Shri Mataji : No, I feel nothing. When these people sing, “Jai!” to me, I also sing “Jai!” to myself. I feel nothing about it because nothing touches me. But these people get the benefits, they have taken out everything by themselves, I have not asked anything of them, not even that they do Namaste to me, but they themselves have discovered that. Because on your hands you can find out the truth. If someone asks, ‘Whether or not there is God?’ You can find that out on your hands. Similarly, they have found out everything about me. I don’t tell anything about myself, because it I begin to talk about it, they will crucify me or give me poison. But I have to do my work, not going to die now. That’s why I don’t talk about myself. But these people have discovered everything about me. Especially, the people of England are a very scholarly lot, they have straight away got to know who am I and why have I come here.
Host : Mataji, thank you very much, for giving us your time as well.
Shri Mataji : Very happy that you came here and it was very joyful.