26 March 1981

He Is A Living God, He Is Not A Dead God

Public Program

Macquarie University, Sydney (Australia)

Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft

When I came to Australia, I was really enamoured, especially by the young people of this country. Young people all over the world are really wonderful seekers, and there’s no doubt about that. I was really apprehensive about Australia because, as the doctor is a Christian, I was also born in an Indian Christian family. And I know Christians and Christianity much better than you might, because what Australia is, is nothing but missionaries who came to us. In that, I was put at every point, brain-washing, ego-oriented. And they never tried to understand anything about India except that showing them that you have no idea Christ was born in England and Australia and they tried to say it in such a way that people started getting converted into Christianity.That’s how I know Australia is getting converted. But I realised that from all over the world so many Christians came to India as missionaries. Even the Portuguese, they are so horrible, that they would put the ? in the West and people would say, this is the meat of the cow and all of them get converted to Christianity, [unclear] food and all that and say that now they eat meat. The poor people in the villages they would give them the food and say that now you are [unclear]. All this type of thing was wrong.

I’m not here to tell you about the past, but I’m going to tell you about the load that I’ve seen in this country. That people have now got out of that idea that they have to dominate the whole world with their faith. Christ never wanted anything. Why He came on this earth was only for us, because you must know He is a living God, He is not a dead God. That’s one thing you have to know. He is a living God, and He came on this earth to give us a living experience of Self-realisation. He said that you are to be born again. Many a time. I don’t know how many times they have written it in the Bible. But how many of them are doing this?

I’ve seen people self-certify: “I’m twice born.” In America, it’s a hit list. You meet every third person who is twice born. “How do you know?” “Yes, I’m twice born. I belong to an organisation where I pay a hundred dollars every month, and I’m twice born.” Now, just think about it. You are educated, intelligent people. Can you pay for your Self-realisation? Just think about it. Supposing I formed an organisation taking all the money from your purse and giving you the impression that now “I am twice born” That’s the test, you must definitely become [unclear]. But somehow or other, they become mesmerised, I don’t know what they do. You have to know that people start leaving the organisation when this happens [unclear] Who baptized first? John the Baptist alone. Nobody else. Everybody cannot baptize you. You cannot get a certificate to baptize in a theological college, can you? It’s not a university. It has to be the university of God. It has to be a living thing, a spontaneous thing. Something living must happen to you. Otherwise, if you believe in anything else, it’s all dead. You have to believe one thing today, another thing tomorrow, it will shatter you finally. I know my own [unclear] and now they get further and further down, just spirits, just dancing like mad people, they are supposed to be Christians. This is the picture that Christ painted of Christians.

We have forgotten, we have deviated from our path where we had to see ourselves. They never recognized Christ. Never. I am not here to criticise. What a stupidity it was to crucify Him. What did He do? Nothing. Why did they crucify Him? Because they could not recognize Him. And I would ask all the Christians today, how will you recognize Christ? By reading the Bible, can you recognize Christ? How will you recognize Christ if somebody says, “I am Christ”? How will you recognise Me?Or iff I say, “I am the Mother of Christ,” how will you recognize Me? Is there any way of finding out an absolute answer? Let us face it as courageous and intelligent people.

Let us see for ourselves. Let us see as courageous and intelligent people. Everybody who writes anything, that was living, that’s the [inaudible]

Anybody who tries anything that was living, that’s the Shalivan way [unclear] [inaudible|

It is easy to make some money and finish. If you go to church [unclear] you cannot rest. But no you cannot rest now.The time has come. The Last Judgment has started. You cannot rest without finding yourself. Whatever happens. Whatever you may think. Some of you go to other gurus, other sort of nonense. You belong to some sort of a nonsense. You start dancing, all the things I am telling you, it’s just the same.

There is no difference, the only difference is that Christ has said that He is the living God. It’s a very sophisticated thing. I am not saying that I am against any religions, neither am I against Christians who have [unclear] because they are against Christ. They do not do it knowingly they are not understanding what they are doing. They are doing it in all sincerity. Because I know people who are the judge, very simple but Christ has said that He is the living God, and you have to do the living work. He has said, it will be called [unclear] He said so, why did He say so, because we have not understood him in his full essence. He is the greatest, a very strong personality, incarnation through incarnation. And because we do not read anything else, except the scriptures and things that are available to us, but if you read the Markandeya Purana, it is in Sanskrit language, you will find the words of Christ, he is very [unclear]And how everything works out to get [unclear] on this earth and how the whole thing was sustained by so many deities, and even Krishna how he respected him and all those things are there.[unclear] But as we have no time outside, we are just like, true blindness. This should not be the case of you people because you are seekers. You are not going to be like Christ. Now just open your eyes and look around and see for yourself and ask “Are we born again?”

What is it to be born again? [unclear] As people with scientific minds, keep your mind open and try to understand what I am saying. You have not to take take it for granted at all, but you have not to also close your mind to what I am saying. How Christ worked it out is explained here. I have also studied medicine just so I could understand the doctors. And I am also [unclear] And I do my best to understand pyschologists and intellectuals and the great people with big horns! [unclear] In any case, I would request that you try to understand what I am saying even if it is so called. Actually, Christ lived for four years, because the rest of the time He was not there. And in four years, how much can one tell? Now, I have been working for the last ten years and I find that people are so closed-minded.

At that time there were Jews. Jews were so closed-minded. What He said was that “I am here to make straight all the laws,” and so on. But they would not listen to Him. Nobody liked Him because He said something that was beyond their comprehension. Nobody was willing to listen to Him. He is the first one who talked to the multitudes. Otherwise Krishna talked to them [unclear] he didn’t even [unclear] And now the situation is that I have to talk to you, and if you don’t listen to Me, I am not going to be the loser. I have not come here to take anything from you. I have come to give you a gift of God. I am not fighting any elections. I am not lacking in money. So please be sure that you are not going to oblige me by anything. It’s you who has to oblige yourself.

For example, I went to Argentina and people [unclear]. If Christ was born at that time, why [unclear] imagine that question! Question number one. And question number two was that, if Christ was the son of God why was He crucified? So you cannot imagine the brains of the people, how it worked, again trying to understand the truth of such a great personality that God sent us. Because they are so foolish and cannot see [unclear] According to His own concept. [unclear]

He has no authority to explain. He has no understanding to explain and whatever he has praised, is again maligned and they say what kind of a [unclear] is this and who [unclear]

We have crucified Christ again and again and again by putting an image, a concept on His head that He has to carry for nothing at all. He is not your concept. He is what He is, and you have to know what He is. He will remain what He is. You cannot change Him. It is only you who can be transformed. He does not need any transformation, He is complete, He is pure. And He is quite immaculate. Soif you have to understand about Him, you must know He is what He is, and we have not to conceptualize Him.

I think there are books and books about it. So amazing, I am amazed, what is the need to criticise, they don’t understand a deity, and how are we [unclear]

I appear before you like [inaudible] and it is said in the Bible, that is “I will appear before you like tongues of flames [unclear]”, what does that mean? They look like tongues of flames and thousands of them, thousands of them. And when you see them, they start giving you such pleasure, they are in different colours at this stage, in different colours. This is to be seen and felt, it is not to be just understood. What is there to say, nothing about Christ, and he will say I am not a Christian. Now, what is a Christian personality? What is a baptised person? We should think about that. In Indian language it is called as a person who is born again.

Now, what is a person who is born again? In the Indian language, a person who is born again is called a dwijaha. They say a bird is a dwija because a bird is first an egg and once it is born again, it is a bird. In the same way, a twice-born person is not a self-certified person, but he is a transformed personality; he is a different person. Now let us see what Jung had to say about it because he was very wise. I was happy to learn that in Australia Jung is recognised. Jung says that when you are Self-realized, you have to be collectively conscious. You have to become collectively conscious. It’s not that I just say, “Oh, we are all brothers and sisters.” Not like that. You become collectively conscious. The becoming is important. The actualization of the thing is important. That means something happens to your consciousness, to your awareness, that is, human awareness, to develop something special, something valuable, to become collectively conscious.

And the only thing that happens is the awakening of this residual power here, which is the pure desire to become the Spirit. This living power starts pulsating here, it passes through, and pierces through this fontanel area. You can feel the pulsation there, and you can feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost coming out. They say “cool breeze of the Holy Ghost.” Where is it? Where is the Holy Ghost? What is the Holy Ghost? They cannot explain anything. The thing is, Christ was born among such stupid people that He couldn’t talk about it.

First of all, you can imagine, none of the university people went to listen to Him. They were too busy. None of the educated ones, none of the bureaucrats went. Who went to listen to Him were the poor, ordinary fishermen. Just think about it. How could He explain to them? How could He explain about Kundalini? Just think of it. How to explain about the triangular bone? They too never believed Him. Only one thing they did was to collect all kinds of people who were sick for Him to be cured, and He was fed up with it. Until He got His resurrection, they could not believe Him. They were very funny people. They could not accept that He was born by immaculate conception, they could not accept it and they would not allow people to say that it was an immaculate conception. They could not and He got ? they could not because they had no faith in themselves;

But today I’m facing people who are seekers of the ages and I know I can talk about it. I know some will be against Me, no doubt, because some seeds fell on the hard rock. It’s all right. But we can have many people who get realization and they will know their self. And they will know all about this. When this Kundalini rises from here and pierces through, you can feel it on your head here. No artificial baptism, but a real baptism coming out of your head, and you can feel the cool breeze coming out. Now, can anybody do that? You can jump, you can hold hands, you can stand on your head, you can do all that but can you make this portion pulsate and can you make the pulsation pass through and open this part, which is a real baptism?

Thanks to John the Baptist he said… and thanks to many others who have come but because for whatever they crucified him, thank God, for [unclear] You are not going to be crucified, but [unclear] Now this closed mind of ours comes to us because we have had no experience of the Spirit.

Now, what is the experience of Spirit? It is when the Kundalini rises, She touches this place, at the fontanel bone area, this is the place which is the seat of the Spirit. It resides in your heart. Unless and until you know your Spirit, you are not connected to the all-pervading Divine Power. [unclear] Unless and until you become balanced you cannot understand. You have to be connected to the mains. Any instrument has to be connected to the mains to find out its own meaning. First of all, you do not know why you are here. Secondly, you do not know what your meaning is. Thirdly, you do not know what is absolute. So you have to become the absolute, that is your Spirit. Like a computer, when it is put to the mains, you start feeling on your hands a cool breeze, and you can ask any fundamental question.

For example, in India, when I talk there, what do they say? They say, “You are converting us to Christianity.” When I come here, they say, “Why are you wearing this?” It’s a funny world, I tell you. Really, it’s a funny world. And there are many who say why did You take birth in a Christian religion? And My answer is not so good so I do not want to tell you.

Text inaudible I took birth in a Christian family. And my father was a very learned man. [unclear]

He’s the one who told Me that human beings are not so good. I would say he is the one who really introduced Me to yoga [unclear] and why they crucified Christ. He explains it, I just don’t understand, why can’t they see it, and they are just playing a drama. Why do you take it so seriously and then when he explained to Me he said that they have [unclear] the eyes If the people go to the tenth floor of how can it be that the first floorYou have to have en masse baptism, en masse realisation by which people rise up to two stories and see that there is something beyond and then they grow more and more.

There has to be transformation. There has to be germination. If that doesn’t take place, you cannot go forward. Because all these artificial things start competing one with another. There is a shopping going on from this to that to that, and people join these things. They are the seekers, and they are bound by these nonsensical ideas. So you are the one who has to try. You have to first of all find out because if I tell you I am the Baptist [unclear] why should you believe Me?

By which we are going to make good Christians [unclear] and so many people of high class also [unclear] because the people who tell that must be realised.

Now what if He says “I am Christ”, I can walk on water. Because Christ was that all-pervading power, the Omkara. He was all that and that’s why He was able to walk on water. To understand Him only living beings cannot. You have to get your realisation to understand Christ, otherwise you cannot understand Him because you? For example, you come, you sit down, you cannot see anything, you sit on a chair, your eyes are open, you realise, you are enlightened. Now the next thing, [unclear] I said, why not you? Please come along. I will be very happy because I am working morning till evening and it’s such a thankless job and people think that I am hurting their ego? So I don’t want to do. But there are so many things you can do which I cannot do. I cannot drive, I cannot run, there are many things. Now this is the thing, why Christ was crucified. The fact that he was judged. The concepts about religion, about God, are very challenging. It’s very difficult, it is very surprising, we are having a programme in a hall which is owned by Jews.

I said I am going to talk about Christ. They are very much there. [unclear] They have no patience. When I talk about Christ. So this Christ will be If Moses [unclear] why should you be angry because you are not yet realised. [unclear] You are so funny that if we want something, desire something, our rationality takes over. We ourselves are not listening [unclear] So we fight within ourselves. First integration must take place and this is the only way you can have it. You cannot argue with that, you cannot talk. It is a happening beyond the facts. It is not the thing you say, all right, you have to see yourself. It may not happen, it may happen. You cannot say talk, talk, talk. It’s over. You have to get your realisation. Some people think that we can argue it out, we cannot. Can you argue out if say you want to make truth out of flowers [unclear] Anything goes. If you want to count the seeds how many can you plant? Any living work, you would be surprised how we take all the living work of God for granted. Do we know that these are miracles that are happening around us. Thousands of miracles are going on around us and we are not at all aware of it. We think that we are doing this. Who can transform one flower to [unclear] And giving realisation, you cannot do it, it is spontaneous, it is beyond and this is the spontaneous thing, Sahaja, this is the new birth, living thing and [unclear] from amoeba to and now [unclear] but I do not want that [unclear] there is no point, this is love, divine love, it just happens, just happens, it’s your own thing, it’s your own thing, [unclear] if you have no doubt then it will be yours forever. There are so many things that can be yours and [unclear]

Text missing

There is no quarrel, just love, just happiness, just happiness. It’s your own [unclear] it’s your own if you want to take and there are so many seekers who and they come to the programme and they have they are so conditioned that it is not easy for them to outgrow their conditionings, they are so conditioned [unclear] so the areas beyond [unclear] it would be better and they find that it is better but I find that young people are also many are born realised young and this is what it is and they understand very well.

It is a very very great pleasure to come to you all and talk to you. I would like to have questions but not aggressive, not aggressive, because when you ask Me questions you must know that can you give realisation, what have you done so far? What is your authority to ask Me any aggressive question [unclear]

The authority is the Self-realization that you should have. First, that is what Christ has said, that you must have your second birth. You are to be born again, all right? Now, I say I can do that for you. Now, you see to it. If it happens to you, you accept it. It’s a very open thing. I’m not going to take even a single pie from you, nor are you going to give me anything. Actually, I’m wasting my time with you, to be very frank. But I’m doing it. Listen, why am I doing it? Because I can do it. And just see that you get your Self-realization.

First of all, you are asking for authority. Go to the church and ask for authority. You have to get your realization; you are to be born again. I am not going to proclaim, because when Christ just said, “I am the Son of God,” they crucified Him. I’m very clever. I know human beings, how they are. They have ego, it’s a challenge, and they are silenced. I’m not going to do that. But I’m going to comfort you, I’m going to counsel you, I’ll give you your realization. Now, if you do not want to have realization, you can leave. There’s no force on you.

This is love, Divine love. It just happens to you. It’s your own. It’s your own bank account, I can say. I’m just telling you, I have the key to it. If you want to take it, take it. It will be yours forever.

I would like you to ask questions, but not aggressive questions. Questions that will support your realization. Because when you ask the question, you must know: can you give realization? What have you done so far? What is your authority to ask Me any aggressive question? Can you give realization to anyone?

I have cured through this realization. Cancers, many, but as a by-product. Just as a by-product. [unclear] Because your body is healed, your mind is healed, and you feel better. There is no sort of a thing that I go about with a healing capacity. [unclear] When your temple is going to be enlightened by your own Spirit, then the whole body gets healed. So it is for you to see and to get it and see for yourself.

Now what happens is that when you get it, any of you who start feeling the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost The Holy Ghost is the pure power within us and once that starts happening to you, you will find you are completely relaxed, first of all. There is no thought within you. And then when you start using this power, you can raise the Kundalini of others. But the most important thing is that immediately, as soon as you get it, you become collectively conscious. I tell you.This means on these fingers you start feeling these centers. These are the subtle centers which demarcate our progress during our evolution. And these fingers get enlightened.

Christ has said those who are not against Me are [unclear] I don’t know if it is in the Bible but he said it.

So, who are those people who are not against Christ? These are them. And these are the fingers which get enlightened. This idea that Mohammed was the last prophet, or that Christ was the only one, is absolutely wrong. How can that be? How can God be the last? Has He solved all your problems in the world? He was very knowledgeable of the Primordial Masters. We think God is like the Rock of Gibraltar. No, God is an aspect. If we have to say that Christ was the Son of God, it suggests that the aspect of the Son of God is [unclear]. What makes you think that Christ was the only one? What have you achieved out of Christ? Wars, atomic bombs, what else? What have you achieved? You are standing on the precipice of complete destruction. Take it from Me, if you do not take to your Spirit, you will be destroyed from within. You will be completely destroyed from within if you do not take to your Spirit. Please get your Spirit enlightened.

If. It doesn’t take anything at all. Only you require the pure desire. I am here to give you your realisation. I am not here for arguments or any nonsense at all. Because I am not here to pamper your ego or to destroy your ego. You better go and run a few more miles and then you come back. I am here to tell you that you have a Spirit within you which you have to achieve. When you go to church you never ask about baptism, why you are doing the baptism, no question, just so long as it’s in the Bible [unclear] When you see a little child who is baptised what do you say, you accept it because it is conditioning, that’s why you accept the whole thing. Why should you accept the child’s fontanel bone area is touched. Why don’t you ask? You should, but you never ask. You just sit there in a very nice suit and sing songs. You should go and ask these people. This child is baptised, how?

On the contrary, [unclear] nobody is supposed to touch you here or here, understanding the person as an authority from God. I am here to request you, please [unclear] I know you are full of it. I am talking about self-knowledge. All right? There are too many thoughts, tell your mind to keep quiet because there are so many ideas and you are lost and you have learned so much that it’s no more there. Just now, be quiet, all right?

There is no problem in you asking a question but questions should be raised on the living process which you do not know, you do not know. Supposing a boy who has not known a word about science enters into the laboratory and asks questions. [unclear] This is something new, into the new realm of self-realisation, you enter into the kingdom of God and there you can feel.[unclear] better to keep your eyes open, enter into the university, and see for yourself. Don’t question before you have seen for yourself. You cannot give realisation like this. The other day we had questions [unclear]

From 45 minutes onwards the recording is mostly inaudible

**[Audience Member 1]**I believe that I have been, what you call, born again. But it doesn’t look anything like what you are describing. That makes no sense at all. How do we decide which conception to follow?

**[Shri Mataji]**That’s the point. Very good. What you said is the truth. That’s simply how we decide. It’s such a confusion. I understand it. Now, how do you decide? What I do is to get your Self-realization. Now, I’m here. I’m just saying that your Kundalini has to be awakened and you have to have your realization. I’m saying that. Now, supposing I’m saying that, and if it happens to you, then you will know. If it happens to you, you become like a computer. You get connected with the absolute. You ask any question. Like, if you ask a question, “Is Christ the Son of God?”—a fundamental question—you start getting the cool breeze. You ask any fundamental question: “Is there God?” You start getting the cool breeze. What I’m saying is, I have to put you under that microscope through which you can see. That’s all. And what is there to be afraid of? Why are you so frightened?

**[Audience Member 2]**My love says that you spoke about demons. Now I believe that if you make yourself open to anything without authority, then you’re open to demons as well. So please, people here, really consider what you’re doing in making yourself open. You’re opening yourself to demons.

**[Introducer]**Where is the love here today? Where is the love in this hall? I ask you all, every one of you, examine your heart and if you find the love in Mataji, then go for it. But if you don’t find the love, walk out of here and look what you’re doing.

**[Shri Mataji]**Unless and until you enter into the Kingdom of God, you will not know My authority. All right? Before that, I’m not claiming it. I do not want to get crucified again and stop my work for your question. No, I’m not going to say anything. I’m not going to claim it.

There are so many who have seen the pulsation of the Kundalini. Forget it now. You go to a church and it’s all right. No more questions, please. Let Mataji give it to you. She’s offering it to you as a gift. You are only one person who is asking the questions and all these people are waiting for realization. Have some consideration for them.

Now, you have to think of others. Now, 99% of people who want to have realization… be considerate. Doesn’t Christ teach that, that you have to be kind to others? Now, please. Now we’ll see if it works out.

Put your hands towards Me like this and just close your eyes. Just like that. There are so many who want it. You don’t want it, don’t worry about it. It’s for Self-realization. It’s so obvious. You put your hands towards Me.

Close your eyes. Please, close your eyes and put your hands towards Me.

We have done no harm to you, so you should not be scared of God. He is very kind. He is very compassionate. He said one thing: “I will forgive everything what you have done against Me, but not against the Holy Ghost.” Be careful. Just close your eyes.

You must have it. You must have it.

Please put your hands like this, all of you.

First of all, you have to forgive. Please forgive. You have to forgive everyone. Forgiveness is the greatest weapon we have. You say, “I forgive.” From your heart, you must forgive. First, forgive those who disturbed you. And also forgive everyone who has troubled you. Just forgive.

After that, you have to ask for forgiveness. That if you have done any mistake so far, please forgive us. Ask for forgiveness from God. Say that if you have done any mistake in your seeking or anything against Him you may have done, please forgive us.

Put your right hand on the heart. For them also, you have to ask for forgiveness from God, for they do not know what they are doing. Just forgive them. You all should forgive them and also ask for forgiveness yourself. You might have done something which may be against God, with your knowledge or without your knowledge. You just say, in all humility, “O Lord, please forgive me.”

Now ask the question in your heart, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” In your heart, ask this question, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Just ask the question.

Now, you have to say, “Mother, please give me realization.” You have to ask for it. Now, when people cannot get it, you have to ask for it. It’s a tremendous thing that you are asking. It’s invaluable. Ask for it again.

Now, put both the hands towards Me, and you will find a cool breeze coming into your hands. Not only that, but you will also feel a cool breeze coming out of the top of your head. Put your left hand above your head. A little higher. Good. Got it? It’s great. It’s the thing that has to happen. Those who have not felt it, please raise your hands.

All right. You put your right hand on your heart again. Left hand towards Me and right hand on your heart. You are still feeling hot? Still… All right, you put your left hand on your liver, on the right-hand side. And now put the right hand towards Me. See, Australians eat such a lot of butter and meat, things that they have a liver. All right. Good. He’s got it. What about you? Did you feel the coolness?

**[Audience Member 3]**Yes, I can feel it in the hand, but not… it just keeps changing.

**[Shri Mataji]**You are clear. That’s why there has to be a follow-up. It’s all right.

Anybody that hasn’t felt the coolness, any of the new people, just come down the front here to one of the front seats. Come along. I would like to see all of you.

[Shri Mataji works on individuals in the front row]

Now you just say one thing, “Mother, I am not guilty.” Now come along, say it. For my sake, say it. You have been just telling yourself that you are a very guilty person. Now will you please say that? What guilt can you have compared to God’s love? Just say, “Mother, I am not guilty.” Say it loudly. Just say it openly.

“Mother, I am not guilty.”

See, I am proud. Don’t feel guilty. God’s love can engulf everything. It can wash everything. That is love. If that cannot do it, it’s not love. It’s okay. They got it. Just put your hand over your head. Don’t think about it. Just feel.

Got it? Mhm. Thank you. Thank you. That’s all right. That’s a big program. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.