31 July 1994

Interview

Varikstraat Ashram, Amsterdam (Holland)

Talk Language: English, Hindi | Transcript (English) - In Progress, Transcript (English) – Draft | Translation (Hindi to English) - Draft

Interview with Hindustan TV station, Varikstraat Ashram, Amsterdam, 31st July 1994,

English Transcript (in progress)

Shri Mataji: If you speak? Interviewer: If you could speak a little loudly, we have the opportunity to have this small conversation for our newspaper for the Surinam Community here in Holland, especially the Hindu Community. Shri Mataji: Very good. Interviewer: First of all, we would like to know the Sahaja Yoga. Tell something, its importance to practice this for the- especially in this society. Shri Mataji: Very much important. Because, you see, this is- all this knowledge is from Indian philosophy. It's a very ancient knowledge. They used to have, say, Vedas, we can call them. On the right side, they were searching for knowledge outside. And the another one was the knowledge about the worship, that we can call as the pujas and archas and all that. But in the center was the system for awakening your Kundalini and to making you a real Realized soul, that we call is the one who is knowledgeable, who is the Gnostic as they said, ‘gna’. ‘Gna’ comes from Sanskrit, Gnostics also. So, the one who is a ‘gnani’ who is a Buddha, or who has got the vidhya from Veda, means you should know it on your central nervous system. This was the thing that knowledge should not be only in book or what your Guru tells you or this, but should become part and parcel of your being.

And this is a system they followed very thoroughly in the, I should say, it started in Maharashtra to begin with. But also, it was very much prevalent in Nepal, where you must have heard about Raja Janaka, giving Realization to Nivruttinath to one person. So, the traditionally, it was from one person to one person, not allowed to give to the second one even in life. Interviewer: Like guru chela [disciple] tradition or different? Shri Mataji: What? Interviewer: Guru chela tradition or different? Shri Mataji: Yes, only one. One Guru and one chela. And he was given this Realization. Now this was also in Nath Pantis, as they call them ‘Nathas’ in the - especially in Maharashtra they had this great capacity to do it, but only the tradition was followed. So, when Dnyanadeva came, he asked his Guru that, "Why not I write about it at least". Because in the Gita it was not mentioned how you get to this state. So, he said: "Let me write". On the on the sixth chapter of his Dnyaneshwari, he has written about Kundalini Jagruti and all that.

But about this, Adi Shankaracharya has talked, 6th century. And about they say, 14th century, before that, was Markandeya who has also talked about it, but in Sanskrit language, the difference is like that. So, people, as you call ‘jana sadharan’, the people, didn't know about it. It's only very few people knew that there's a power called Kundalini within us which can be awaken. Even in Valmiki Ramayana, Valmiki has talked about this, and they told Sri Rama about it. It's in the Valmiki’s.

So, there's a- this power that resides within us, is in a bone called ‘sacrum’. So, the Greeks also knew it's a sacred bone, because they called it a sacrum. And they told me, when I went there, that is a fact, we knew there's a power in this bone, some sort of a pure bone, so we called it sacrum. Whatever it is, I have also seen in Africa and also in Colombia and all that, that they have used this Kundalini as an emblem and things like that. So, maybe in the ancient times, they might be knowing about it.

Most surprising in Colombia, we went there and my husband was Secretary General of the international Maritime organization. So, they told us - that's how we were connected with the Marine. So, I asked, "Why do you use a condor, this Garuda as your emblem, for that?" They said, "Because our forefathers who told us that a god from India, from our country, called Vishnu, came on a Garuda". Can you imagine? I mean, this was the greatest ‘chamatkar’ [surprise] I've seen, that they knew - you know where is Colombia is? It’s so far away. Interviewer: Yes, near Surinam. Shri Mataji: So far. And there, this one came, as they said, on Garuda. This is in the ancient times. It's very nice to discover how people have so much knowledge about these things. In Finland, of all the places, I asked them, "What do you"- Iceland, Iceland. I asked them, "What do you call to ‘sugar? " They said, "Sharkara". I said, it's a Sanskrit-it’s an absolute Sanskrit word "Sharkara". I was amazed, you know. So, this is what it is, we don't know the prehistoric things. But in the prehistoric times also, we have lots of things found and everywhere. Also, let’s say, Tao of Lao-Tse is the same as Kundalini. He calls it Tao, to Kundalini he calls it Tao; name may be anything, but it’s just the same. Then we have Zen. Zen is the same thing, same way it is.

Now the problem is like this that, we have so many, thousands of years have passed since this knowledge has been there. And suddenly, now I'm telling this to people that now we can have, en masse Realization. So, they don't know even the word ‘Kundalini’. They think ‘Kundalini’ is like ‘kundali’, like your horoscope or something. Now it's- it was difficult in the beginning. I'm working for the last 25 years. But now it has become really very evident that it can work out and people can get awakening of the Kundalini and thousands can get Realization. 6:44 Interviewer: But the difference between the Kundalini which Patanjali is talking about? Shri Mataji: Same, same. Interviewer: Oh, it’s the same, oh. Shri Mataji: same. but Patanjali didn't talk actually about kundalini as such, but he talked about the stages into which you pass. first, he said nirvikalpa comes last. but according to him, it is savikalpa samadhi, then savichar- no. savichar samadhi, nirvichara samadhi, savikalpa samadhi and then the last is nirvikalpa. So, in our Sahaja Yoga, we just have two stages: one is nirvichara and the second is nirvikalpa. there are in between, but that stage is there, some people have it, but not everyone. so, we have excluded that. some people, even after getting realization, are still doubting, you see. Savikalpa, they are doubting type. But afterwards, they become Nirvikalpa. So, it is, we have made it into two: is Nirvichara samadhi, and then Nirvikalpa and it works out. Yesterday, there were so many people, about, it must be about a thousand? Sahaja Yogi: 700, 800, Shri Mataji. 8 hundred. Interviewer: Yes, we were there. But. Shri Mataji: He was there? Interviewer: Yes, but we- I had some other appointment also. Because I'm busy with also with TV program, for the, let's say the Veda and Sanat dharma, all the movements to make my own program on the local network. Shri Mataji: Ha, ha, so you were not there. Interviewer: So, I was not able to stay. But I may, I will come tonight. Shri Mataji: All right, very good. Here they want me to speak in Hindi language. Interviewer: Yes, yes, because- Shri Mataji: It's all right, it’s all right. So, yesterday, practically everybody raised their hands. They felt the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, as they call it. But it is Adi Shankaracharya who has called it "salilam, salilam [waves]", cool, cool, like that. He has described it. He calls it ‘spanda’ [vibration; throbbing] He calls it, these vibrations are ‘spanda’. I mean he has done a lot of work on this. But as usual, you see, if you do not get Realization, you drift into something which is false, always. These people also, disciples of Adi Shankaracharya, also drifted. And I find very difficult to find people who really care for the spiritual ascent. As soon as they get something, they start making money or going out for power and things. And all the religions are just corrupted like this. And then people lose faith in God. They don't want to talk about God.

So, this is how you reach that ultimate goal which is promised in all religions, that you are to be born again. Like the Brahmins are called ‘dvijaha’, means born twice, like a bird and it becomes like an egg and then you become a bird. In the same way, you are a human being and then you become this, we can call the Brahma Jnani.

Interviewer: So, let's say that the main goal for a Sahaja Yoga is no difference between other religions? Shri Mataji: Yes, it's all the religions. It is Gandhi 's belief also, because I was with Gandhiji and I he was very fond of me and he used to regard me- Interviewer: Mahatma Gandhi. Shri Mataji: Yes. And also for his ‘bhaja madhi’ [unsure], he used my method of saying different centres he has used. He is a very kind person to the children. And he always said that all the principles, the tattvas, all the tattvas of religions are the same. And if you can build it up, in the Kundalini tattva, then they will all understand that all religions are the same. Interviewer: You are talking about the 36 tattvas. Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon? Interviewer: You are talking about the 36 tattvas. Shri Mataji: Of what? Sahaja Yogi: 36 tattvas, Mother. Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. All these 36 tattvas of that we have described. Actually, the principle is very simple. Two principles only that we are the Spirit, we are the Atma, at Atma. And the second one is that there is an All-pervading Power, this Param Chaitnya. These are the two principles you have to realize, that's all. Because all others are too much of a - what you can say - if you go from the Veda side, then there are ‘pancha’ tattvas and then there are this tattva, that tattva. That's not important. What is important is your centres within yourself and these centres are to be awakened. Now then came out many people who were, who didn't know about it as Tantrikas. They started using all kinds of very bad methods of harming people.

Interviewer: [Unclear] Shri Mataji: Yes. But all these are money oriented. If you see the- I mean the subtle point is, they are all money oriented. They all want money or they want power. But it is not Spirit oriented. All religions are Spirit oriented. So, this is the main principle of religion, one has to achieve: to know the truth, to know the reality, that is the point. So, all our ignorance disappears. And this is all within us, it's your own power, it's your own mother. She knows everything about you, and just like as you can sow a seed in the mother earth, it just sprouts. It's very simple. Interviewer: And why did you find it essential to come in contact with the Hindustan Community after so many years, when you come in Holland? You understand? Sahaja Yogi: Why you feel now to contact Hindus which are in Holland now? Shri Mataji: Yes. Interviewer: After so many years because- Shri Mataji: No, no. You see, always I come for one day. So, we could not have program with the Hindus and then you see what happened that, when I was in London this time, they had a program in Albert Hall. It's a very big Hall, so all full. And this TV Sarita Sabharwal was there. She got her Realization and she came to my house also for interview. Then she said, "Mother, I was so sorry to see that there were only 5% Indians there, and all were foreigners". Interviewer: Yes, because it is a big community, very big. Shri Mataji: "And they are so open and so good". And she also got Realization in the hall only. So, she said, "Why in India it is so strong and why not in England?" I said, "You see, we have programs mostly in English language". "Maybe, she said, why don't you contact also Hindus everywhere, Indians? You might get a response". So, that's how I've started. Then we had a good response in London. Now we have many Hindus. Now here also it started, because you have to go to them. You see, the Ganges has to go to their houses.

So, then that's why, at this time, I'm doing it with Hindus, because I was quite hopeless with the Indians in London. They would come four, five of them, sit in front, walk halfway. So, the people said that, "Mother, don't call Indians. If they come, they should sit at the back. We don't like the way they talk out. They have no respect". But now it's different, because I never talk to them directly. So, they were with all these Morari Bapu, this, that and all that. But now they are all changing. Interviewer: India itself your, may I call it your philosophy? Maybe I can call it like this? Sahaja Yogi: Sahaja Yoga, yes. Interviewer: Yes. Sahaja Yogi: Is Indian government is aware of you and Sahaja Yoga? Shri Mataji: Of course they are. Of course, they are. Our CNC is a Sahaja Yogi. Commander in Chief is a Sahaja Yogi. And even I have given Realization to a Prime Minister, also. Interviewer: Yes, because one and a half year, I was with him with my son we were in Dehradun, and I saw your picture on the wall. Shri Mataji: Yes. Interviewer: In Dehradun. Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Interviewer: Near Hardoa [unsure]. Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes, we have a center there- Interviewer: So, I told my wife, maybe one time, I can meet you in person and we can make some interview for the community. Shri Mataji: And the CNC, he did all that our commander in chief Mr Joshi. He did all that. He called, I mean, we have a center there in Dehradun also. Interviewer: So, the way to [unclear]. Shri Mataji: Yes, even in Hardoa. Interviewer: Yes we stayed in a, we stayed in Saptarshri ashram, by Swami. Sahaja Yogi: We stayed in Saptarshri ashram.

Shri Mataji: Ah, very nice one there. Interviewer: In [unclear], I don't know if you know. Shri Mataji: They're nice ashram there. But still, we must get out of this because why dharma after all five? For what? Interviewer: I beg your pardon? Shri Mataji: They ask why dharma, why to take to Dharma? Because you have to have balance. But for why? Why balance? Balance for your ascent. Ascent is the main thing. Unless and until you do that, you see, this this Hare Rama, Hare Krishna mad people, you know how they are. I told her that Gita was written just as a sign board to ascend. It was not written just to be read, and read, and read, and talked. No, not that way. It was to be read like a sign board and that's what you have to do. Like a doctor gives you a- say, a prescription that, "Take Manasin for your headache". And you go on reading the prescription, prescription, you'll have more headache. You have to do what is written, that's the point. Then I told her, "You are all getting mad, you people", and they get also the cancer of the throat.

So, you see, this religion is not madness is sanity, complete sanity, complete freedom, from all kinds of vices. You become a saint, you don't have to give up your family, don't have to - nothing. They are all normal people, just see. Interviewer: So, no sannyasin or this kind of thing. Shri Mataji: If you had come yesterday, you would have seen how normal they are. If you had come yesterday, you would have seen how normal they are. But for this program, they are coming again, and you’ll hear their music. Even this gentleman who was here, he was telling me, "I was amazed how they could sing our song so well in Hindi language". All of them. Interviewer: So, can you give for, say, a kind of short message for the people why, because it's the main point. We have to be clear in your message for giving this Sahaja Yoga to the world, to the people. Let's say in a small- Shri Mataji: The message is such that the time has come for us to ascend and this is already prophesized by Bhrigu Muni in his book Nadi Granth, that this time will come in Kali Yuga, this will happen and this time has come and we should avail of the opportunity.

Because you are all seekers. I know Indians are all seekers, but they get lost, you see, into these day-to-day, mundane type of things: do puja, do this, do that. 18:23 But why beyond that? Interviewer: Because there are a lot of various groups like … Shri Mataji: So many gurus, so many groups and so many gurus have come from jail directly here. They have no bona fides. Find out whose relations are they, what they are you'll be amazed sometimes. But they themselves found. Now they have found this ashram here, like that we have ashrams everywhere. But I have nothing to do with them, their expenses and all, I have nothing to do with their money or anything. They look after their own stay. Interviewer: And the cooperation with the people in India itself? Or is that nothing to do with the – Shri Mataji: No, I don't do. They do it. I don't do. Where did you get your Realization? Sahaja Yogi: In Haag, Shri Mataji. Shri Mataji: In Haag. Sahaja Yogi: In Den Haag, in 85. Shri Mataji: 85, he got his Realization. Even our President of A High Court was an Indian, you must have heard his name. He was a Sahaja Yogi also. Dr Nagendra Singh he was a Sahaja Yogi. His wife is there she's a Sahaja Yogini, she's in India.

Interviewer: So, let's say, for the cultivation of the Sahaja Yoga, because I'm connected with Sanmarga trust maybe you heard about Hinduism today … Shri Mataji: Kya? [What?] Sahaja Yogi: He is connected with the Sanmarga trust. Shri Mataji: Sanmarga. So, this is the marge, Sanmarga to you are gold! [Laughter] Interviewer: Yes, but they have published a magazine, worldwide magazine, especially for Hinduism. Shri Mataji: You must publish something because you see, Sanmarga is made to reach some place. So, why Sanmarga? To riches. This is what it is and you don't have to pay it, it's your own power. It's your own mother, it's all your own. You don't have to pay anything. It's because, in your last lives, you have done all these tapas and everything. So, now in this life, you have the reward. It's already predicted. Interviewer: So, you give us the permission to write something about yourself. Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, of course, of course. Please. You can write, you can ask him to write, you can translate. But give the exact idea of Sahaja Yoga to people. Interviewer: I have one copy with me. Maybe I can show you. Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes, yes. She would be interested. Your bag is upstairs, shall I get it for you? Interviewer: Yes, because there more than 50 million people worldwide reading. Shri Mataji: Yes, it should. I mean, there are, you see, I didn't know that Hindus are.

Interviewer: Mr secretary, Mr Moti, he's my contact person to the head office in Hawaii. So they, we are busy now to make the connection that I can make correspondent. Sahaja Yogi: What do they do there? Shri Mataji: Even in Hawaii, there is a center. Interviewer: Yes. So, I can make the contact also for this Sahaja Yoga. Sahaja Yogi: Sahaja Yoga, of course. Interviewer: They distribute all over the world. Shri Mataji: Even in Madras, it is. Interviewer: Yes. March I was there. I went to Tirupati. Shri Mataji: This is your name? Interviewer: No, this is of the secretary. Shri Mataji: What is your name? Interviewer: My name is Shant Prakash. Shri Mataji: No, but what's the surname? Don't have. Interviewer: No. But my family is Mohan Prasad.

Shri Mataji: Your family is from Bihar. Interviewer: Yes, my grandfather is a Brahman priest. Sorry. You can see this is the newspaper's edition. And this the international edition. You don't know it? Shri Mataji: This is Sai Baba. Interviewer: Yes, we write about all kinds of movements and things with the Hinduism what to do with. Shri Mataji: Now you know he's exposed completely. Interviewer: I don't know don't know. Shri Mataji: You don't know, oh- Interviewer: No, this just examples of what they write about him. Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, but what I'm saying, this fellow is completely exposed. They had gone there, our Prime Minister, the President and our Home Minister, the Home Minister to and he was giving some sort of a present to someone, there was some inauguration of something. And he was carrying it on top of a plate, you see, like this, one fellow. one fellow. But because of these persons, there were so many cameras, you see. This one used to mesmerize. So, nobody saw about what he was doing. But cameras, you cannot mesmerize. So, they saw it, from down below he took out a necklace, and he gave it to this Baba ji. It's all on the tape.

Interviewer: Sai Baba? He [the boy] always said it from the beginning. Shri Mataji: Hum? Interviewer: He always said it [the boy]. Sahaja Yogi: He always said, the little boy always said, "This is fake". Shri Mataji: He is a Realised soul, that’s why! [Laughter]. Interviewer: Because we had always three four, times the opportunity to go there, and he said, "No, I don't want to go there, I don't want to go there". Sahaja Yogi: It’s just some kind of juggling here. Shri Mataji: He is a Realised soul. He will know who real and who is not real. Now, Akon Swami. Interviewer: But this is just example how they write, they put articles. So, just now, I want to make the contact for the Sahaja Yoga, if you give me the permission.

Shri Mataji: We are also going to have a hospital because we cure people without any trouble at all. Interviewer: And now I'm busy with my own program I told you, on the cable network. I also can put some what- Sahaja Yogi: I'll do, I'll give you some addresses International addresses of Sahaja Yoga, in India also and in America also. Interviewer: Yes, because we need a lot of networks. Then I can do, I will be the correspondent for Holland, and I will send these articles to this Hawaii; then they will publish. Sahaja Yogi: OK. Interviewer: If Mataji will give ‘ashi bat’.

Shri Mataji: This one is, this is Melwani. This lady, she's a Sindhi [Scheduled Tribes]. And Sindhis, you know, they have [unclear] So, she's saying that the ladies are put like this and all that. But our society, Indian society, is the best in the whole world. We don't have divorces. We don't have children like that. I mean, Indian society, in India, I'm saying. They have kept the society all right. Our politics is bad. Economics is bad, everything is bad. But society is all right, thanks to our women. They are so sensible. And these fashions, if this start coming, we'll be playing into the hands of all these entrepreneurs, you see. Like they brought mini sari. It came in Bombay, 8 days, and was thrown back. Interviewer: You can look further, what kind of articles you. Shri Mataji: Yes, I would like to see. So, here she's trying to say. But the women, those they are in the house also, looking after their children, are doing a great work. It is very important. Only earning is not important, but how you make your children, what they become, is very important. And in India, the women are very solid, very solid. They cannot take to all this nonsense. This is The Liberation they talk of. But you get Liberation sitting in your chair. You don't have to go to Himalayas.

Interviewer: Yes. I've been there. I like the atmosphere. I like [unclear] because of the atmosphere. But to do all kind of Shri Mataji: No, no. But you must get, it is the point! Vishnoi [bapre ba; Hindi]. Vishnoi [or Bishnoi] is another one. Interviewer: Shivaratri, I was in Benares, [unclear] Shri Mataji: Hum? Interviewer: Vishwanath, have you been there? Shivaratri. Shri Mataji: Vishwanath Temple. Where? Interviewer: This March I was there. Shri Mataji: There also, when you go, you feel like running out. Such pandas are there, terrible! They used to have a kind of a trap door, before. And any lady with ornaments or anything, normally for pujas they wear all the ornaments. They used to slip them, these pandas, inside the one, that trap door. And they used to go into something. And they were lost, you see. So, they would say, "Vishwanath has just taken it, [are baba; Hindi]" or something like that. And stupid people believed them. They would take out all their ornaments and they converted these women into prostitutes.

Now that system is closed, because they found out this trap door and all that. So, that is what is Vishwanath ji mandir. Now it's better because government has taken over, much better. But, you see, this is what they have been doing. How can they do it in the name of God? In the name of Vishwanath? All these! But, do you know the pandas of Benares, they are all Romans, Interviewer: Romans? Oh, yes? I didn’t know. Shri Mataji: Yes, they are. Only in Pashupatinath, they are Nambudiri path [or Namboothiri, cast of Brahmins] from Kerala. Adi Shankara. They are so horrible! I tell you that they were saying some funny mantras. They sing these. Mahadeva’s mantras are called Chamak and Namak, they were saying that. So I said, "What mantras are you saying? Why don't you say Chamak and Namak?" They got all frighten. And I said, "All the way, Adi Shankaracharya has brought you here, to say these horrible mantras of pitaras? Like we say in shraddha. Can you imagine? They don't know any Sanskrit, nothing as if- but when I told them, they started saying Chamak and Namak".

Money makers. Money makers. Interviewer: But difficult to find out, difficult to find out. Shri Mataji: That's the point. But now, you all get it. Young people should get it and find out what these people are. [Unclear].

Interviewer: I think this newspaper will be very interesting for your message, because widespread North America edition, India edition, UK, Europe, Malaysia, Asia Temple Indian ocean. So all the world. So, I can make - Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, you see. It is very widespread and- Interviewer: Because they write about, let's say, all these kinds of movements. So they are not - Shri Mataji: There are so many. You see, they are so many. Interviewer: Yes, for example, they put this on the just like a world news, Daily Times from England. And you have some world news. So, it's with this magazine, everything what has to do with Indian culture, Sahaja Yogi: Hinduism. Interviewer: I can try.

Shri Mataji: You can show him some of my miraculous photographs. Because they have here some lights being shown and other. Interviewer: So, Maharashtra is near Bengal or? Shri Mataji: I'm from Maharashtra. Interviewer: It’s near Bengal, or? Shri Mataji: Nagpur. I look like a Bengali, you mean? [Laughter] No, I'm from Maharashtra. Interviewer: You heard about this Maa and Joti Ma? Shri Mataji: Maha? Interviewer: Maa. Shri Mataji: Maha shakti or something. Interviewer: Something. She, her body has been [unclear] Shri Mataji: One better than the other. I tell you. [Laughter] They made such a lot of money. They came to Maharashtra, Bombay. That time, I was not working as Mataji. So, they said that they told her that, "You go and approach her ", me, because people believe in her very much. "And they'll give you money or anything ".

And these are my four hands.

Boy: What is that? Interviewer: What is this? Sahaja Yogi: This is the hands, if you count Shri Mataji: It is with ordinary cameras. Sahaja Yogi: This one is also there. Shri Mataji: Ah! This one.

Shri Mataji: In a village, Interviewer: In India. Shri Mataji: Yes, this is in India, in Maharashtra. This, I stopped it here. Sahaja Yogi: So there are the four 1, 2, 3. Shri Mataji: In a school, in a village school, I was speaking.

This is in the sky. There are many in the sky.

Recently, did you get the one they had? Raphael’s? No? Sahaja Yogi: Which one was that? Shri Mataji: I like one painting of Raphael. In Brisbane, we had an ashram, where this thing came, rainbow came. And amazingly, very clearly, there was the photograph of Raphael. Sahaja Yogi: I saw that, Shri Mataji, I saw it. Shri Mataji: Very clearly. Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

[A boy asks a question in Dutch] Shri Mataji: What is it? Sahaja Yogi: He is saying your face. Shri Mataji: Yes. And also in the nose there is a ring.

Sahaja Yogi: This one is not so easy to see. This one. Shri Mataji: You see, this is when they were getting married. You see all these vibrations. But in this, there are all Gods and Goddesses. Interviewer: How do you call them? Devas or ? Shri Mataji: Devas, of course. You'll see them here. Maybe that is not here. If some people have some photographs? This is from my heart the light is coming out. This is also me, somewhere, sitting here, all around. You see here. Out of me, so many photographs have come out. No one knows what's all going on. This is out of my feet, all the light. This one was here. Shri Mataji: Here also. There is Ganesha also behind me, where is that? Sahaja Yogi: I try to find it, Shri Mataji. Shri Mataji: You have so many photographs. Ah, here. All this has become red. Interviewer: Where is [unclear]. Shri Mataji: This is in Ganapatipule. He'll bring and show you just now

Sahaja Yogi: It’s Ganesha. Shri Mataji: This is Shiva puja. Ganesha is behind me. Actually. Ganesha. See his eyes. [Hindi conversation] You can see the shape. [Hindi conversation]

He knows. This is your son, mister Murti? I don't have secretary. I don't have secretary. They all my secretaries, you can say. Should I keep this just to see? Yes and then you can read it. Because I only have one. All right, you can keep it. Interviewer: And you are the secretary or the? Sahaja Yogi: I'm a Sahaja Yogi. [Laughter] Shri Mataji: They are all Sahaja Yogis. I don’t have secretary; I don’t have secretariat. They are all my secretaries, you can say. Should I keep this just to see? Interviewer: Yes, and then you can read it because I only have one. Shri Mataji: All right. Keep it. Interviewer: Then tonight, I will pick it up. Shri Mataji: All right. Interviewer: It's OK? Sahaja Yogi: OK.

Sahaja Yogi: How many Hindus here? Shri Mataji: ‘Bapre’! This Kriya Yogi is one of the worst. Interviewer: Which one? Shri Mataji: This Kriya Yogi, you know? This thing. This Kriya Yoga. This Yogananda. First, when Indians went here, some doctors, they cut their tongue from here. And said that ‘Khechari’ has to be done. So, put back the tongue like that. And when I went there, I saw them wagging their tongues like that. They are absolutely good for nothing now. They can't talk, they cannot say anything. Tongues are just like the dogs. This Yogananda. Hopeless people they are. Interviewer: Yes.

[End of recording]

Translation from Hindi

Q: Shri Mataji, can you give your introduction in short?

Shri Mataji: Introduction is such that, I belong to the family Shalivahanas. Both my father and mother were great disciples of Gandhiji. And my father was a member of the Constituent Assembly and also the parliament. My mother was honours in mathematics. I have a brother who is a cabinet minister. But spiritually it was my parents who recognised me, that I had something special in me. Then I got married. At that time I was studying in a medical college in Lahore. Then there was trouble in Lahore in those times, so I had to leave my studies, and I got married. My husband is Dr. C. P. Srivastava and he is a well known person. Later he was chosen as the Secretary General of a U.N. Organisation called IMO, International Maritime Organisation. He was chosen unanimously by 134 nations. Now he has taken retirement. I have two daughters. One of them is married in Bihar. They are related to (Rajendra Babu)

Q: Mostly we see that there are yogis coming from India, but they are mostly men. You are the only woman. Do you see something special in that?

Shri Mataji: Yes, because only a woman can do this work, not possible for others. Sri Rama came, and had to go to exile. Sri Krishna came and he had to leave soon. And when he used to get angry he would use his Sudarshana Chakra. Jesus Christ came, and he was crucified. Prophet Mohammed came and he was poisoned. So the way of handling children is something that only a mother knows. And that is what we call patience, that you have to bear patiently with children, is something only a mother knows.

Q: How do you work these days?

Shri Mataji: So I go to every country, and tell people about Sahaja Yoga. And in these are special times that in every country people are seeking in thousands. Whether they seek God or they seek the Truth, it is the same. But there is no one to show them the way. Everyone knows that there is a market now, so everyone is into making money. Fact is, that to get the truth, you cannot give any money. You cannot buy truth! It is the light inside you that gets awakened!

Q: We know about Karma Yoga, Gyana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Tantra Yoga. You have talked about Sahaja Yoga. What is its importance?

Shri Mataji: The importance is that it is the gist of all yogas. In Karma Yoga Krishna said that “Do your karma.” But Krishna was a diplomatic personality. He didn’t say it clearly. He thought if people are not so clear themselves yet, so let’s tell them in this unclear manner. So there was special in what he said, that "Karmanya Vadhikaraste Ma Faleshu Kadachit". That “Do your Karma but don’t desire for results.” And the second thing he said was, “Whatever Karma you do, surrender it to me.” This we cannot do! Because we have ego; whatever we do we never think that, let’s surrender it to God. Tomorrow someone will do a murder and will surrender that also to God.

There is a way of it, that is, that you first get connected to God. And then you will see. You will do karma in a way that it will be akarma. Whatever you will do, you will never feel that you are doing it. All you feel is that it is happening. When this state comes in you, is when this is possible. This is what he spoke about. And on bhakti He said, "Flowers, fruits, leaves, whatever you give me I will accept". But what can we give? On such things are his words. He said that... ( interruption in tape)

Q: We know about Karma Yoga, Gyana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Tantra Yoga. You have talked about Sahaja Yoga. What is its importance? (same Q again)

Shri Mataji: The importance is that it incorporates all yogas. That is to say that till you don’t get connected to God through Sahaja Yoga, all yogas have no meaning for you. Krishna made Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga. In both these yogas he indicated that you should have a connection to me. First he said that whatever deeds you do, surrender them to me. That we cannot do. That can only be done after Sahaja Yoga. Then he talked about bhakti. “Ananya Bhakti", which means bhakti when there is no other. This also happens only after Sahaja Yoga. Because till the time you are not really connected to God, whatever deed you do, you will hold yourself responsible for it. Then there is Tantra Yoga. So in this we use the tantra. Tantra means the mechanism inside us. That is the mechanism we use in Sahaja Yoga. And the so called tantricas, they don’t know anything about it. They do all wrong things. So it’s not so called Tantrism we are talking about, but the knowledge of Tantra, our inner mechanism. The seven chakras and the three nadis, that is what we are talking about.

Now no one has written on this, but they have all said, "Sahaja samadhi lago"(Get Sahaja Meditation). Both Guru Nanak and Kabir have mentioned about it. Kabira has said a lot about it. "Ida Pingala sukhmana nadi re". (Ida, Pingala and Sushumna are the three nadis). "Shunya shikhar par anahad baaje"(The continuous pulsation beats at the epitome).Everything! Now "Anhada", Adi Shankaracharya has called them "Spanda"(Pulsation). So all this that has been told, the complete explanation and experience you have after Sahaja Yoga. Till you have no connection, it’s like you have a telephone without connection, who are you calling?

Q: Are there things like asanas, and pranayamas, in Sahaja Yoga?

Shri Mataji: No. In Sahaja Yoga the Kundalini inside you gets awakened and rises through six chakras, and comes out of your fontanel bone area, and gets you connected to the all pervading power of the divine. But if you have a physical problem, say your spine has some problem, then we can tell some asana to him. But (the idea) that asana (physical yoga posture) has to be done by everyone is like saying that everyone should take every medicine from a medicine box! Everything has a system, and discipline. Till now I haven’t told any asana to anyone!

Q: You are talking about Kundalini. So what does a seeker do, if he does not do asanas, does not do pranayamas?

Shri Mataji: It’s Sahaja, spontaneous. You don’t have to do anything. Just settle in it. Just as you sow a seed and Mother Earth sprouts it spontaneously and a tree is formed. Similarly in your seed, the Kundalini is the sprout. And after getting awakened, it finds its own way. And when you start doing something, you come into imbalance. You don’t have to do anything, but try to get into thoughtless awareness. The first state is of thoughtlessness, which you can achieve.

First edit done to here – 15.03.2012 If you think, you either think of what has happened or what will happen. So we live either in the past or in the present. And both the things do not exist. The past is finished and the future is not there. So to get into the present this kundalini works out. No thoughts, you are in thoughtless awareness state, and you grow. So many powers inside you get enlightened.

Q: I have read and heard in other Yogic practices, that one should be careful of Kundalini Shakti, it can be dangerous also. It can hurt the seeker or even make him mad.

Shri Mataji: This is a very wrong notion. It can never happen, because Kundalini is your individual Mother.She knows everything about you.When you were born all the pains were born by your Mother. You did not take any pain, did you? This is a very wrong statement. Those people who do not know about Kundalini talk like this. Or those who do not want that people should go towards truth.

Q: How can Sahaja Yoga transform the life of a person?

Shri Mataji: I all ways. One his physical state becomes completely allright. Now I have told you I am 71 years old, but I travel so much everyday.There is no problem I am just fine.So your life also becomes very empowered, and many things which cause you trouble, those illnesses, they get allright. We have even cured cancer. Many types of illnesses have been cured.This is about physical health, but you also get mental health. Many people have depression, epilepsy, lunacy, all this can be cured with Sahaja Yoga. And then your innermost desire as a seeker, that he should atain God, and atain His Shakti, You atain that. So you transform physically ,emotionally, and also mentally. I have seen children who were very week in studies, they started coming first in class.because when Kundalini enters your intelligence, it enlightens it. So your intelligence becomes sharp. Your sttention becomes steady and integrated. And also very innocent.

Q: A Sahaja Yogi is always practicing alone, or can thi sbe done in groups also?

Shri Mataji:He has to practice individually also, but it is in collectivity that he grows the most.Because the give and take between each other happens automatically. So colectivity is very important. Its just like when the drop becomes the part of the ocean , it becomes the ocean itself. Then you flow with the ocean. The drop cannot move independent of the ocean. But you also have to meditate athome on your own. Say for 10 mins. Just like a bath. So he also takes a bath with which the internal cleansing takes place. All this is the work of the pure energy, that is Love, that makes a man absolutely pure.What we call as "Khalis"

Q: In modern society we see, there are all kind of problems.Like peope are dying of hunger in the world. Or there are wars. There is so much discrimination. What awnser can Shaja Yoga give to the world?

Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga has a huge effect. First of all man forgets discrimination of cste and creed because universal brotherhood comes in him. He starts to think, who is theother? There is only one. Now we have marriages in Sahaja Yoga. Every year some 80 to 90 marriages take place. They are all international, and they all live in peace. They have very nice family lives. They have beautiful children, and very pure inside. They have left drinking, smoking, I never said anything to them. Spontaneously everything drops out. Like in the darkness you can sit in your hand with a snake. And if a light comes in, you just drop it. Just like that these people have become pure! And all these problems you have are because of man. All these political problems in the world are because of man. So when man is allright all these problems will also be solved.

Q: But these problems are so many. And if I see it, I just heard yesterday about Sahaja Yoga.

Shri Mataji: No, No. I don't know why you were unaware. Its avery old word. And also it is a very old thing. It used to be kept as a secret before. May be thats why you did not hear about it. Sahjaja means spontaneous. And if you know hindi, it also means born with you. It is your right. You have to get it.

Q: In our language i thin "Sahaj" means easy.

Shri Mataji: yes, that is true. Its the same thing.

Q: And there arae many problems in the society. Like people go mad. Or they run too much after materialism in western countries. There are a lot of family problems. There is divorce between husband and wife....

Shri Mataji: But now a new race is getting ready. A new kind of people who are away from all these problems.They don't have family problems, or society problems. Because man is the cause of all these problems. If every individual human being is corrected, and that individual if he becomes collective, and one, then where is any problem? Now look at us. All this is happening in 65 countries. And these people when they meet together, they four to five thousand people together at a time. I have never seen them fighting, or having any arguments.The may tease each other, but for fun. They all are in joy!

Q:You being a women, can you give some message to our sisters here, who are moving forward every moment. Shri Mataji: My message for women is that our society has put always a lot of burden on them. They have taken care of our religion, of their households, their children, and their husbands. Thats why we can still say , that the kind of society we have in India, you will not find it anywhere in the world. They may belong to any religion, Hindu muslim, sikhs or christians. They all have peace in their lives. This has been maintained by the women. This is the work of women. A woman is like Mother earth. She tolerates so much and still nurtures everything. And man is like the sun. So to tolerate the heat of the sun, and then to nurture and produce nature, is the task of the earth. Similarly women are very powerful. And Indian women specially are respected all over the world. Its also said, " Yatra narya pujyante, ramante tatra devta".(The deities onle reside where women are worshipped)

Q: We Indians in the west , we are forgetting our own culture. What would you say on that?

Shri Mataji: That is happening everywhere.In India also. Its called Coco Cola Culture. But it will change. Because when they will see its negative effects, then people will change. I recently met the cultural (......?) of China.He was also saying that this coco cola culture was a lot in china also. But its changing now. But we have something stay inside us in our culture in the roots, that there we cannot change. Its very steady.

Q: What is the importance of our Indian culture?

Shri Mataji: The biggest thing is that it is based on Dharma. Dharma means, morality. That man has a lot of moral bindings. Morality is a very important thing. And this morality is left out here in the west. So what is their culture? And in our culture morality is the most important thing. There are a lot odf such examples based on morality in our culture.

Q: ShriMataJi what is the importance of Indian culture?( Question repeated)

Shri Mataji: Importance is that our Indian culture is based on morality. Morality os very important. Immorality is not accepted in our society. But here morality and cuture are two different things. There is no talk of morality in culture. Like , I was talking to this lady, she was very educated. And i was surprised when she told me that itsin our culture that we expose our bodies. And I thought what kind of a culture is this? So like this they don't have any morality in their culture.The first thingi sthat if something does'nt have morality in it...then what kind of a thing shall it be? So Indians need to know that they hold on strongly to their morality and their culture. Because in the end everyone is going to take to that. So why should we give in. Now these Sahaja Yogis you see, they are living completely like in our culture. And in their own freedom. Because the culture has a part of the pure spirit in itself. It is based on the light of the spirit. The origins of our culture is to do with great seers, great saints, the real ones. And where has their culture originated from?Whatever Christ told them, they don't follow even a bit of it. All that he has talked is the explanationof Sahaja Yogis. You should'nt have adulterous eyes. Thisis what He said. And these people in the west, specially the Christians, what do they know?

Q: But we see in western countries, these people are moving towards Indian spirituality.What is your opinion on that? Shri Mataji: Thats so because, we Indians we think, we know everything. But these people they see that they are drowning, and this spirituality is the only thing that can support them. And they are ready to do anything for spirituality. Many got lost in it also. Because many crooks also came from our country, and befooled them , and made a lot of money here. But I see that with what depth these people understand Sahaja Yoga, we Indians do not. And also Indians outside India, they also don't hold on to Sahaja Yoga. I don't know what is the reason.

Q: One last question. I have read that people believe you are an incarnation. How do you see yourself?

Shri Mataji: I shall not say. I don't want to say. There must be something. Otherwise how is all this working out? The thing is if you say something that I am this or I am that, people run after you to kill you. I am not here to die. Christ said i am the son of God, and they crucified Him for that. They poisened Mohommad Sahab. In oue culture they have tortured saints endlessly. In your Bihar, Kabira was born, Budhdha was born. What a land it is! Mahavira, the founder of Jainism was born. And there have been so many saints. Now Kabira called Kundalini, by the name of Surati, and these people in Bihar, they name Tobacco as Surati! Now what should I say? The way they have done the juxtaposition of whatever these great saints said and did, I think I better not say anything. I would rather say, first you get your self realisation, and then know me from your subtle vision. And what is the need for me to say anything? I am a woman, I am a Mother. All this is me.

Q: Thank you.

Q: We have people from Surinam here in Holland. So they also get entangled in the problems of west, like divorce, growing stress, and people are running after materialism. What is your opinion on that?

Shri Mataji: The solution to all this is Sahaja Yoga. Because when Sahaja Yoga happens, you realise that you are not alone. With you everyone is enjoying this nector. Everything in this creation is for joy. I you get that joy, why will you run after material things? You have nothing to do with materialism. But the quality of materialism, is this. Like if people come to you, and you want to show your love to them, so you offer them things to eat and drink. Or give them some presents. This is real materialism. This is the beauty of matter. The other thing is art. Whatever is matter how can you make it beautiful, and decorate it. That is asthetics. You can create beauty out of matter. But when matter becomes money, then everything becomes ugly. But the realisation of this happens after Sahaja Yoga.Like these things made out of Ganges(......?) are very good for Sahaja yogis. Because the vibrations flow from them. Something that has vibrations is what we consider beautiful. Like the picture of MonaLisa, it has vibrations. Its in many places, like this 16 chappel, here , it has vibrations. Where there are vibrations flowing, there is beauty. And then what is the need to possess it. Just enjoy it ! For example, if this is my carpet then its my headache that I have to get it insured, and this and that. But if its yours, then its good for me, I am enjoying it! So attachment goes away. You shall be surprised to know people in Russia have no attachments. The government asked them to take their own flats, and to take care of them. And the people said we don't want anything, we don't want to ow anything, you keep it. And what are we goingto own. Its all going to be left here. But this can only happen after Sahaja Yoga.

Q: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: All problems, now you have these poor people....I can tell you...... Now see, our country is a agriculture based country, what we call as farmers, they are more in our country. With the help of Sahaja Yoga, sometimes the agriculture produce is 10 times or 20 times. Such big Sunflowers, with the help of these vibrations. And lot more can be done. So a sahaja Yogi is no more poor.Because he has the best seeds, the best agriculture produce, an dhe is better off the other people. So the countries which is agriculture based economy, for them Sahaja Yoga is a great thing. And cows. Norma cows give around 4 to o5 (ser) milk, now she gives around 12(ser).And we don't need to buy hybrid seeds. Just vibrating the normal seeds solves the problem! So you don't need to be a slave of any company.So the problems of our country, specially our country, can be solved. There are many such things. In Sahaja Yoga you can understand. Which are the special things we have, that can be sent abroad. You get a subtle understanding. And you all will also prosper inall ways, once you get this subtle understanding.

Man when he is one with the whole, all his hidden qualities, start manifesting, start getting enlightened. There are great musicians in Sahaja Yoga, great artists in Sahaja Yoga. Our Commander in Chief, he is also in Sahaja Yoga. So this is such a thing, that as soon as a human being gets it, he achieves his "Parampada"( Highest state). He goes in that state. We always pray for "Parampada". This is "Parampada".

Q: Thank you.

Shri Mataji: Hope I have answered all your questions.