Press Conference 1986-07-24
24 July 1986
Conference
Volterra (Italy)
Talk Language: English | Transcript (English) – Draft
Shri Mataji: It’s all right.
Yogini: She is telling us not to worry.
Romano Battaglia: The gentleman is a special correspondent for “La Nazione”. Now Afeltra is also arriving, he wanted to come here.
Lady: Ah, he’s coming?
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Yes.
Lady: Can you explain everything?
Lady: Yes. I want to explain that Dr. Afeltra and Dr. De Martino, they are two very famous journalists.
Man: Yes!
Lady: Very famous indeed, they have been head of a newspaper, editor-in-chief of various newspapers. And they are considered, you know, how you say, the authority in Italian journalism. And Dr. Afeltra wanted to meet You. So he’s coming now, if we can wait to commence.
Guido: So better get some chairs, more.
Lady: At least a couple, two of them.
Guido: Let’s get some more chairs.
Lady: There is also a doctor with them. He is particularly with Scientific Press.
Warren: Oh, good.
Shri Mataji: Oh that’s good, that’s very good. That’s very good. Because Sahaja Yoga deals with science. And I was saying that if somebody is interested in the science side of Sahaja Yoga...
Warren: Guido, you stay here and let him get the chairs.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Did you want to make an interview? Did you want to ask something?
Shri Mataji: Too much, is it? You don’t like it? We can put it down here.
Warren: Open the windows.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): So, let’s explain that today, if it rains, we have to change and go to “Canniccia”.
Lady (In Italian): Who has to do it? Who has to explain it? Me. (In English to the yogini) Your English is much better than mine.
Yogini: Yes, but you are nearby Romano.
Lady: Okay.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): The fact is that if it rains it’s not possible at the Versiliana.
Lady: Okay. If it is going to rain, the meeting will take place in another place. Sorry.
Shri Mataji: Yes, we want to see tonight there.
Lady: Yes, so maybe it will be at the “Canniccia”. I don’t know what it is. What is the “Canniccia”?
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Yes, the “Canniccia” is three or five minutes away, behind.
Lady: Five minutes, behind, only it is. But how do you say “la Grande Madre” in English?
Warren: The Great Mother.
Yogini: The Great Mother. The Great Mother.
Lady: The Great Mother? Ah, okay. She says that tonight it is not going to rain. You said that it is not going to rain tonight.
Shri Mataji: No, it won’t. Tonight. It will be all right, don’t you worry.
Lady: Okay. So wait...
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Is She saying that it will rain only tonight? Tonight?
Lady (in Italian): No, no, no. It’s not raining.
Guido (in Italian): There won’t be any problems.
Lady: So we don’t need to...
Shri Mataji: I don’t think so. I don’t know.
Lady: No.
Romano Battaglia: You have to be there around five in the afternoon. So five in the afternoon. There will be some interviews they want to do, so...
Lady: There are various televisions and radio and journalists who want to have some interview with You, so we arranged something.
Guido: There will be many television and press people.
Shri Mataji: Oh, it’s all right.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Then one more thing.
Guido: We have to be there by five o’clock.
Shri Mataji: All right, yes.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): One more thing: while She speaks, we broadcast our radio along the entire coast up to Sanremo, so ten thousand people are listening.
Guido: While You’ll be talking, about ten thousand people will be listening through the radio in all the cost.
Shri Mataji: It’s very kind of you to have arranged.
Guido (in Italian): You were very kind to arrange this, Shri Mataji says.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Only that Versiliana is a magical place. Beautiful. It is a forest of two kilometers by two kilometers with this villa of the great poet D’Annunzio, where he wrote “Alcione” and other things. To change location, if it rains, it is another thing.
Guido: Mr. Battaglia says that the Villa we saw last night is a magic place, and used to belong to this famous poet, and so if they have to change the place tonight because of the rain, it would be a different atmosphere.
Shri Mataji: All right, doesn’t matter. It’s all right. Whatever suits you, whatever is the best place.
Lady (in Italian): Are they coming?
Man (in Italian): Already arrived.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Who has arrived? That is, Afeltra?
Man (in Italian): Yes, but aren’t they in the same hotel?
Man (in Italian): Yes, yes.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): She is always serene, isn’t She?
Guido: Are You always serene?
Shri Mataji: (Laughing) Do I look serene? I don’t know.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I don’t. I don’t.
Guido: He says he is not always serene.
(Shri Mataji laughs)
Romano Battaglia: Come forward, come forward, come forward, come forward.
Lady (in Italian): No, beautiful.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): This is Mr. Gaetano Afeltra, from the “Corriere della Sera”. Very important..
Guido: This is Mr. Afeltra from “Corriere della Sera”.
Lady (in Italian): Mr. De Martino.
Guido (in Italian): Mr. De Martino.
Lady: Dr. Pizzetti, he is a doctor. (In Italian to a guest) So we will pamper you and put you here.
Shri Mataji: Now. Only thing is you are far away.
Lady: Oh no, no, we are closer.
Shri Mataji: So. It would be better (She laughs).
Lady: Yes.
Shri Mataji: We can get more chairs. It’s better to be closer.
Guido (in Italian): It’s better to be closer.
Shri Mataji: Get other chairs also, they are coming.
Man 1: (in Italian): Then has it already started?
Lady: No, no. Not yet.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): No, we arrived just now. We are talking about the bad weather. It would be a shame not to use (The Versiliana)
Shri Mataji: Are you comfortable there?
Lady: The Great Mother says that... (In Italian) She says that anyway it won’t rain tonight, and not to worry. Romano Battaglia was saying that he is not always serene, so what would You suggest him to do?
Shri Mataji: You see, it’s a state. It is a state. It gets established after the Self-realization, as we call it, after the second birth, as Christ has said.
It gets established slowly, slowly. It’s an evolutionary process and a living process. So it takes little time but it gets established. Come along, come along.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Are they from the radio?
Yogini: From the radio? From the radio station.
Shri Mataji: How to make them comfortable?
Yogini: We are bringing chairs.
Guido: They are bringing chairs.
Shri Mataji: So that is a state you just establish gradually.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says that it is a state, a new dimension, which gets established gradually after the Self-realization.
Lady (in Italian): Let’s hope so (somebody laughs, Shri Mataji laughs).
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Today, what do we have to do today? That is, for example, what do we have to talk about, for the people, for all the people?
Guido: What would You like to talk about today, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: I mean, whatever are your interests, whatever you want to ask Me about how it helps you in so many ways.
Guido (in Italian): So, what may interest you to know the most, and that the public could...
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): The public wants to know first of all who the Great Mother is, so it needs to be explained well, I don’t know if by you or by Alganesh. Is Alganesh here?
Guido: So first of all they, the public would like to know who You are, who is the “Grande Madre”.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And then, and then ...
Guido: This is for now.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Yes.
Guido: No, for the... (In Italian) You mean for now?
Romano Battaglia: No, no, no. It is all right also...
Guido (in Italian): For the public.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I would do it even now, because...
Man 1 (in Italian): If I may, if I can, I would like to ask a very simple question. I am completely ignorant of everything.
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): I find myself for the first time in front of the Great Mother. Who is She, what does She represent and what idea does She bring?
Guido: The gentleman says that he is here for the first time in front of You, and he doesn’t know anything about You, and he would like to know something about You, and what is Your message, and so on.
Shri Mataji: What you say about...
Lady: Who You are, and what is the idea and the message that You bring. He has two questions, actually.
Shri Mataji: You know, as far as Myself is concerned, as you see as I am, and if you want to know about My birth or something?
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Stop. Let’s do the translation right away, otherwise it won’t be heard.
Man 1 (in Italian): Right away, right away.
Guido (in Italian): Currently you can see how I am, and if you want to know, I don’t know, about my birth or my childhood, etc.
Man 1 (in Italian): I just want to know what is the ideology, the faith that you want to bring? You are the bearer of what ideas? I don’t know anything. Tell me.
Guido: They want to know about the idea and the message.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what. You see, I have a message to say that we all have within ourselves a power, the power of the Holy Ghost, as they say in the Christian religion, we call it as the Adi Shakti, in Indian language.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says She must reveal that within us there is a power, a potential energy, which in our tradition is called the power of the Holy Spirit, or in the Hindu tradition is called Adi Shakti.
Shri Mataji: That is dormant or sleeping in the triangular bone which is called as sacrum within us.
Guido (in Italian): And this power is within us at a potential but dormant level, and is waiting to be awakened, in the sacrum bone that is called as “sacrum”, not by chance.
Man 1 (in Italian): I beg your pardon.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Please, please.
Shri Mataji: I think you’d better allow him to sit properly. All right?
Man 1 (in Italian): How can we make it blast?
Lady: It is the Kundalini. Kundalini.
Guido (in Italian): Yes, it is called as Kundalini.
Shri Mataji: (Aside) So, you just get comfortable. Oh, I see. Why don’t you move this way?
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): It is very cold there due to the air conditioning...
Shri Mataji: You don’t like the draft?
Man 1 (in Italian): He wants to turn it off.
Lady (in Italian): He wants to turn it off. (In English) Can you turn it off?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. It’s okay.
Man 1 (in Italian): I want to ask the Lady: how can this thing explode?
Guido: How can we awaken this power?
Shri Mataji: This power is a living power within us, like a primule in a seed, and it gets awakened spontaneously, as a seed gets awakened when you put it in the Mother Earth. It has a built-in quality to be awakened.
Guido (in Italian): So, this power is a living power that has the same potential, let’s say, as a seed, when it sprouts. We simply put it into the Mother Earth, which has the power to make it germinate.
Man 1 (in Italian): Yes, I understand very well and I am happy to hear this, but I would like to ask the Lady: after having this perspective, how can I feel it move within me, to adhere to this faith of Hers, to feel this sudden explosion?
Guido: What he has to do to feel the power awakened within himself and to have the experience?
Shri Mataji: Nothing, because it’s spontaneous, you have to do nothing. It’s just, I would say, supposing I have the quality of a Mother, say, then in My presence you will get it automatically. Then you will have it, the power, then you can give it to others. It’s like that.
Guido (in Italian): So, it is something that works in a very natural way, you don’t have to put any effort into it. And Shri Mataji says, “I could be compared to this power of Mother Earth”, and in the presence of Shri Mataji, this energy of yours can be awakened in a spontaneous, natural way.
Lady (in Italian): And then he, once he has...
Guido (in Italian): And then, in turn, you can pass it on to other people, once it has been awakened in you.
Shri Mataji: Like an enlightened light, you see. Like an enlightened light, one enlightened flame can enlighten another flame.
Guido (in Italian): Just as a lit candle, Just as a lit candle, a lit flame can light other candles.
Man 1 (in Italian): Is there a need for a spiritual preparation on my part, a fideistic attitude – let’s say – towards Her, how can I say, towards this faith of Hers? How can I have this power transmitted to me to awaken the other that is hidden in me?
Guido: How can he achieve it so easily? Does he need any spiritual preparation or any background, particular?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. Nothing. I mean, just like a seed, how does it achieve it? It is built-in within you. There is nothing, everything is made within you.
Guido (in Italian): It is something that is innate within you, and so, simply as a seed will sprout within Mother Earth, in the same way...
Shri Mataji: Like the connection, like an electrical connection built in here, as soon as you put to the mains, it starts working. Like that, you are fantastically made.
Guido (in Italian): It is like this so-called electrical device, as soon as we insert the plug into the socket, it begins to emit light.
Man 1 (in Italian): Yes, but I understand very well, the Lady is very clear and very sincere in Her exposition. However, I understand well that behind Her there is a whole tradition, there is a whole world to which we are strangers. For us who belong, let’s say, to Forte dei Marmi, so far from this faith, from this ideology, how can I shorten the route and get closer to Her? That’s it.
Guido: The gentleman said that, of course in India you have a big tradition behind and so on,
but how a common man from Forte dei Marmi, from this place, can achieve all this, and how can the approach be faster?
Shri Mataji: Italians are very great people, too. Italians, I always say, Italy is the soul of Europe,
and Italians are very good.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says that Italians are smart people, and defines Italy as the soul of Europe. And so...
Man 1 (in Italian): I thank the Lady for this, but I really want to draw from Her source.
Shri Mataji: No tradition needed.
Guido (in Italian): No tradition needed.
Shri Mataji: Only thing, because of Indian tradition, it is easy to convince in India people, because we know about it already. Easy to convince scientists, doctors, people who are in the profession. It is difficult to convince here.
Guido (in Italian): Now, because in India there is this tradition, naturally it is much easier even for people of science, to immediately absorb this new knowledge. While here there is more scepticism, because we are not prepared for this new type of culture.
Man 1 (in Italian): But I would like to say this to the Lady: that I, personally – I believe others too – always have great admiration for these bearers of faith, for the certainty that they have in their faith, something that we don’t have, because we always doubt. We always have the temptation to say: “Well, it’s all just chatter”. Even in the Catholic tradition there is always some doubt, while I admire this strength in them, this kind of constancy of faith, without any doubt. All right? It’s true, being able to possess this which is a beautiful thing, this is what I say, possessing the non-doubt, which is a beautiful thing.
Guido: So, the gentleman said that he has a lot of admiration for the Indian people, because they have that faith and that security within themselves and that tradition. And he said, we would like to achieve that security, doubtless security.
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, everybody has that within themselves, the Spirit is within yourself. Only thing, you have to just achieve it, that’s all. It’s very simple.
Guido (in Italian): She said: “Everyone has the Spirit within themselves, has this little flame within themselves, even here in the West. The only thing is to enlighten it.
Shri Mataji: He’s already got it, realization, Just now.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says that you have already got realization.
Shri Mataji: Just see on his head.
Man 1 (in Italian): I have already?
Shri Mataji: Yes, you got it! Put your hands just now like that.
Guido (in Italian): Put your hands like this.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you have got it.
Man 1 (in Italian): Don’t make me do any magic! (Laughter)
Shri Mataji: No, no, just see on his head. Just see on his head. Just see...He’s got it. He’s got it.
Guido: (in Italian): Simply put your hands towards Shri Mataji.
Man 1 (in Italian): No, because I’m very fixated, eh.
Shri Mataji: You have got it, already. See now. You just watch Me without thinking, you see. He’s feeling cool breeze?
Guido (in Italian): Just look at Shri Mataji without thinking, and say if you feel a sort of a cool breeze on your hands or head.
Shri Mataji: Shoes are very negative here. (17.23) You have to touch the Mother Earth.
Guido (in Italian): Maybe you should take off your shoes.
Shri Mataji: You have to touch the Mother Earth.
Guido (in Italian): To have contact with matter (Mother Earth).
Shri Mataji: That’s it. Now he’s got it. He’s got it. All of you can get it, first of all, better... (inaudible due to voices overlapping).
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says, “The best thing... the best thing...”.
Shri Mataji: Would be better, because it helps us a little bit, this Mother Earth, yes.
Guido (in Italian): If you could all kindly take off your shoes and have the experience, why ...
[Man talks, indistinct words]
Shri Mataji: He’s got it, he’s got it, while talking to Me, he’s got it.
Guido (in Italian): As you spoke, you have already had this awakening within you.
Shri Mataji: He can watch Me without thinking.
Guido (in Italian): And you can look at Shri Mataji without thinking.
Shri Mataji: Feeling the cool breeze?
Man: No, no, no, no...
Yogini (in Italian): Put them like this on the lap.
Guido (in Italian): Relaxed.
Shri Mataji: You start feeling the cool breeze in the hands. You all.
Guido (in Italian): You start feeling the cool breeze in your hands?
Man 1 (in Italian): I don’t know if it is the...
Shri Mataji: Feeling. (She laughs)
Guido: The gentleman also is feeling it.
Man 1 (in Italian): I put this also together with my great sympathy for Her. Tell Her. Tell Her, tell Her.
Shri Mataji: That’s what I said! Italians are very good, they will get it first! He’s got it just...
Guido: He’s feeling a lot of sympathy for you, Shri Mataji.
Man 1: (in Italian) Great sympathy!
Guido: A great sympathy for You.
Shri Mataji: (Laughing) Thank you very much.
See now.
Man (in Italian): Yes, yes, it can be felt.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Lady: How is it that I not, I not...
Shri Mataji: You don’t, little bit on the liver side.
Guido (in Italian): Put your left hand on your liver.
Shri Mataji: She’s a little... She gets liver. She’s a little on the liver side.
Guido: The left one. The left one, yes. Like this.
Shri Mataji: Left hand, yes. You think too much, that’s why. Just don’t think. Watch Me without thinking, try to do it.
Guido (in Italian): Watch without thinking.
Shri Mataji: See these two yogis, felt it? Yes, good. Everybody - look at his eyes, sparkling. Your eyes too, sparkling, the eyes sparkling.
Guido (in Italian): Your eyes are sparkling.
Shri Mataji: Ah, now, better, you see, on the Vishuddhi. Just can you take out your necklace, please? Just a little bit. That’s it. Yes, good. Are you all right? I mean, little take out that necklace, yes, it’s a little pressure on that center.
Guido (in Italian): There’s a little pressure on that center, this chakra is called Vishuddhi.
Shri Mataji: Now he’s relaxing. Close your eyes, you’ll enjoy, just close, don’t think, only enjoy, you will feel better. (19.39)
Guido (in Italian): If you close your eyes, you will feel very well.
Shri Mataji: Just close your eyes, you’ll enjoy, just see yourself. You’ll feel so relaxed.
Guido (in Italian): You’ll feel more relaxed.
Shri Mataji: Is she all right? Just laugh, that’s all, you see. It’s all a joke, over. This is a drama. (Shri Mataji laughing)
Guido (in Italian): It’s a drama, it’s a big drama!
Man (in Italian): Good, good, good! But faith is this, it is the certainty of hope.
Guido: This is the faith, the security of the hope.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s your Self, your Self, you know your Self.
Guido (in Italian): This is your Self, it is knowing yourself, your inner Self.
Shri Mataji: Look at this. You feeling? You may not feel because of little problem, you have throat trouble little bit, isn’t it?
Guido (in Italian): Do you have any throat problems?
Lady (in Italian): Yes.
Shri Mataji: That’s why. Please put your hand on your throat.
Guido (in Italian): And this prevents, let’s say, sensitivity on the hands.
Shri Mataji: How is she? Are you all right? How are you? Good, enjoy! Now. Ah, good! (Shri Mataji laughs)
Guido: They want to continue the experience!
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, continue, it’s a good thing, just enjoy, that’s the main thing. Just close your eyes and enjoy for a while.
Guido (in Italian): The best thing is to close your eyes and enjoy this experience, for a little while.
Shri Mataji: Just don’t think, put attention here, on the top of your head.
Guido (in Italian): Now you have to put the attention.
Shri Mataji: Coming out from here, cool breeze, if you see, there’s a cool breeze coming out of your heads.
Guido (in Italian): If you want to see, there is a cool breeze also coming out of your head.
Shri Mataji: Yes, on top of your head, from the fontanel bone area.
Guido (in Italian): From the top of your head.
Shri Mataji: Little, little coming.
Guido (in Italian): It is there, but there is this lack of sensitivity because of this problem of Vishuddhi.
Shri Mataji: Ask her, this hand towards Me. This hand towards Me.
Guido (in Italian): Put your right hand towards Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Now is she all right? Tell her to forgive everyone.
Guido (in Italian): Say within yourself: “I forgive everyone”.
Shri Mataji: Everyone.
Man (in Italian): Put your hand immediately and feel the coolness...
Guido (in Italian): Say: “Mother, I forgive everyone”.
Shri Mataji: Everyone, that’s the problem (Shri Mataji laughs). Just forgive everyone. Ah, better! Just forgive.
Guido (in Italian): You must forgive everyone.
Lady (in Italian): (In Italian) I think I have always done it. (In English) I think I always do it.
Shri Mataji: Just say that in your heart.
Lady: Oh, I have, I have...
Shri Mataji: Yes, just say that with your heart.
Guido (in Italian): Say it to yourself, with your heart: “I forgive everyone”.
Shri Mataji: Good, she’s got it very well! (Shri Mataji laughs) See, silence is there, inside.
Man 1 (in Italian): I would like to ask – let’s change the subject - I would like to ask: this thing replaces faith, no? I mean, it replaces the other faith of another, no?
Shri Mataji: This is, this is Shraddha is that – it’s not blind faith, it’s not blind faith. But it is, after seeing it you have faith - is Shraddha.
Guido (in Italian): Let’s say that it is not a blind faith - this is defined as Shraddha, that is, an enlightened faith, a conscious faith. Aware after the experience.
Man 1 (in Italian): What are the rites that we should do to be orthodox, to be adherent, obedient to this thing? As faith, as hope?
Guido: There are any rituals to follow with faith or with ...
Shri Mataji: No, no, nothing.
Guido (in Italian): There are no rituals.
Shri Mataji: Nothing, but you see, this is based on a very great science.
Man (in Italian): With this meeting we are, we remain, let’s say, in line with our Catholic faith, which we Catholics practice, or in contrast?
Guido: After this meeting, they will be in contrast with the Catholic faith or...?
Shri Mataji: No, not at all!
Guido: Or it is in the same line?
Shri Mataji: You see, it is, Catholic faith has little bit diverted from its main line, main stream.
Guido (in Italian): The Catholic faith, let’s say, has drifted a little from what was the pure message of Christ.
Shri Mataji: It is not the, it is now become a mental projection more than Christ.
Guido (in Italian): It has now become a bit of a projection of the mind, rather than being the actualization of Christ’s message.
Man (in Italian): So with this meeting we are like Catholics in a state of sin.
Indistinct voices: No.
Guido: He is asking: “So now, are we Catholics doing a sin in this moment?”.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. You are really the real Catholic now. What Christ has said that you are to be born again. And this is an actualization of your baptism, its actuality.
You break through, you see. It’s not artificial like somebody priest saying you are Christian. That’s an artificial thing.
Guido (in Italian): In fact, you are now true Catholics, because Christ has always said: “You must be born a second time, born out of the Spirit”. And this is the actualization of the second baptism, of the true baptism, because through the ascent of the Kundalini you enter this new dimension of the Spirit.
Shri Mataji: And when they get a real experience...
Man (in Italian): Don’t judge me, don’t judge me. I believe it, absolutely.
Shri Mataji: Surprisingly, you see, when they get a real experience, the Jews also respect Christ and the Muslims and the Hindus, because they know there is Christ.
Guido (in Italian): Because after the experience, Muslims, Jews themselves, Buddhists...
Shri Mataji: Jews, Jews.
Guido (in Italian): ... all recognize and respect Christ, because they now understand that He existed, and they know about His...
Shri Mataji: Now, where is Christ?
Man (in Italian): So Her message is addressed to all religions.
Guido (in Italian): Universal.
Shri Mataji: Universal.
Guido (in Italian): Universal.
Shri Mataji: There cannot be fanaticism in Sahaja Yoga. There are no compartments.
Guido (in Italian): There can be no fanaticism in Sahaja Yoga, because there are no watertight compartments, let’s say.
Man 1 (in Italian): We have been great admirers - me personally and I think others too - of Gandhi's asceticism, which truly represented something... it is the only message that has come in these last decades. I would like to know from the Lady, that I think I have understood...
Guido (in Italian): She was close to Gandhi.
Man 1 (in Italian): ... who had acquaintance with the great Mahatma, what Her impression is, what remains of him, and what animated him in this thing, this faith that truly filled the world, full of admiration for them?
Guido: They have great admiration for Mahatma Gandhi, and they would like to know from You what is Your idea about him, and what was his message and what was your relationship with him and...
Shri Mataji: Yes. Yes. You see, I was a very small child when my father took me down to him. I was only seven years of age and I stayed with him when I was a little girl.
Guido (in Italian): So Shri Mataji, when she was only seven years old, Her father took Her to Gandhi’s ashram and there She began to come in contact with Him and with this world.
Shri Mataji: And he was a very kind person to children, but otherwise he was very hard with discipline, with others. They had to be disciplined.
Guido (in Italian): And he was an extremely sweet and kind person with children, but with other people he was extremely strict.
Man 1 (in Italian): Yes, all right, strict because they wanted to observe all the human rules...
Guido (in Italian): He wanted discipline. Yes. Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): ... that are highly appreciated by us. But the thing that I notice is this: that inside they are so tolerant, and they are so full of faith at the same time, full of ideals, like those of Gandhi. Contrary to what the West is, which is always quarrelsome and always full of ferments. This is something that derives, let’s say, from the ideology of Gandhi, or belongs to the, let’s say, anthropological nature of their race?
Guido: The fact that the Indian people are always so full of faith, is coming that from the teaching of Gandhi, or is something just built within the Indian nature, we can say?
Shri Mataji: You see, we are very, traditionally very old people and we always listen to the great seers in our country, sages, they ruled us. So it is an ancient knowledge with us that you have to become the Spirit.
So we don’t pay so much attention to other things. First thing is you have to become the Spirit. So these teachings are coming since lots of traditions for thousands of years. So our attention is on that all the time, that we have to be the Spirit.
Guido (in Italian): So our tradition is very ancient, and we have always known that our purpose is to become, to reach complete identification with the Spirit. And so we have always followed and listened to the saints and seers of the past. Because this...
Man 1 (in Italian): Yes, I understand very well. You mean that it belongs a little to faith, to tradition, to culture, etc. Now, without wanting to interfere in a reserved judgment that You may have on the West, on Italy, on Europe, etc.: what is the thought, the judgment, that they have in this continuous tumult that Europe has between the West and the East, between America and Russia, between satellite countries, the Third World, how do You judge it? Do You judge it as a manifestation of selfishness, a manifestation of excessive power, or as a mistake of men, because they are above these miseries?
Guido: How the Indian people, or You, judge this big upside-down movement which is happening all over the world, in the Western world? I mean, wars, fighting, quarrels...
Man 1 (in Italian): Not a political judgment.
Guido: Not a political judgment.
Shri Mataji: No, I know. I know, but just if you become the Spirit, you witness the whole thing like a drama going on.
Guido (in Italian): Once we become the Spirit, identified with the Spirit, we see everything simply as a big comedy, and we become witnesses of this comedy, without involvement.
Shri Mataji: Now, you see, the whole thing is that when you are at that stage, you can see why people are fighting, what’s wrong with them. Sometimes it can be ego, sometimes it can be their conditionings, and all these things are working out. But gradually, all of them can realize one day that it is, you are part and parcel of one whole personality.
Guido (in Italian): And so, once you reach this state, this level, you can better recognize when people, for example, act under the influence of the ego, or under the influence of conditioning. But there is this hope that sooner or later one day they will realize what is happening to them.
Man 1 (in Italian): Listen, I think I’ve asked about everything that interested me.
I want to tribute to the Lady Great Mother great respect, great sympathy and of course great admiration for Her way of presenting and for Her spirituality that can be seen emanating from Her personality.
Guido: He would like to express his gratitude and respect to You and admiration...
Shri Mataji: Thank you, may God bless you.
Guido: ...for Your great spirituality and for Your deep message which You are bringing forward.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much, thank you. Thank you very much.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I would like to ask, how many followers does the Great Mother have in the world?
Guido (In English): He would like to know how many followers You have in the whole world. (In Italian) How many followers.
Shri Mataji: I have no counts of them. I think they are not followers, they are my children. So, anybody who gets the realization is my child. I think he is a child now born again you see...
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says, “I have never counted them, and I do not consider them as followers, they are like my children; so whenever one of them gets realisation, he automatically becomes as my child”.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And how is She regarded as in India?
Guido: How are You considered in India?
Shri Mataji: (Laughing) It’s embarrassing.
Warren: I’ll answer that question: as the incarnation of the Holy Spirit, as Adi Shakti.
Guido (in Italian): In India, Shri Mataji is considered as the Adi Shakti, that is, the incarnation of this primordial Power, that is, the Holy Spirit in our culture.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Is it true that in India She does not walk on the ground, but She is carried on a chair?
Guido: Is it true that in India You don’t walk, but they are carrying You on a big chair on the shoulder, in a procession?
Shri Mataji: In a procession, yes. Not on the chair, but on a bullock cart.
Guido (in Italian): Not on a chair, not on a sedan chair, but there are these carts pulled by bullocks, all set up and decorated. And they do processions, really, with thousands of people coming from all over India.
Shri Mataji: In a village when I go, all the villagers gather together, and they sing a song and they carry me in a bullock cart.
Guido (in Italian): There are these big processions...
Man 1 (in Italian): I will ask: why do you take off your shoes? What is the symbol? What is the meaning? In the same way as we have rituals? Why? Explain it to me.
Guido: He would like to know why we take off our shoes.
Shri Mataji: Because this Mother Earth, you see, she sucks in our problems, that’s why.
Guido (in Italian): Because we establish contact with Mother Earth, which absorbs our problems.
Shri Mataji: The nature, you see, the nature also sucks in - for this lady, for example, is more of sun in her. So for her it is important that her - more sun in her should go in the nature, so that she gets into proper balance, I mean to say, this way.
Guido: (In Italian) And so nature also helps us at every moment to re-establish a certain balance. For example, for the lady who has a sunny temperament, that is, she has perhaps absorbed too much sun into her, it is good that she has this contact with nature, that she absorbs a little of this excess heat to re-establish a certain balance.
Romano Battaglia: (In Italian) I wanted to ask a question. What power does She have over a sick person?
Guido: What is Your power in front of a sick person?
Shri Mataji: Oh, that’s a comforting power.
Guido (in Italian): It is a power that comforts.
Man 1(in Italian): Oh, great, perfect answer.
Shri Mataji: It is, it is like, is there a doctor here?
Guido (in Italian): Is there any doctor?
Shri Mataji: This is a force which is the, which controls your parasympathetic nervous system. Guido (in Italian): It is a power that controls the parasympathetic system.
Shri Mataji: Like, you see, supposing you have to run - then your heartbeat starts going fast. That’s too sympathetic.
The parasympathetic is the one which brings you to the balance.
Guido (in Italian): And so, for example, when we start running and our heart beats faster - this depends on the sympathetic nervous system. But the parasympathetic nervous system is what restores balance to our system.
Shri Mataji: So, then when this Kundalini, this power within us rises, she passes through our six centers, which are actually the subtle centers of all the physical plexuses, as we call it, in the medical terminology.
Guido (in Italian): And so when the Kundalini, which is this power within us, is awakened and rises, passes through six centers which correspond to our plexuses, let’s say, in the physical body.
Shri Mataji: So once these plexuses are nourished by this Kundalini’s force, you see, it’s a vital force, you get physically all right.
Guido (in Italian): And so this vital energy, when it passes through these centers, the centers themselves are automatically nourished and healed.
Man 1 (in Italian): So it’s something like acupuncture?
Guido: It has something to do with the acupuncture?
Man 1 (In Italian): A very, very basic question.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, acupuncture is wrong, because acupuncture is just diverting energy from one center to another center.
Guido (in Italian): So, acupuncture works, let’s say, in the sense that it moves, or shifts energies from one center to another, through small channels.
Man 1 (in Italian): So that is acupuncture.
Shri Mataji: But in this one you get...
Guido (in Italian): But it is different.
Man 1 (in Italian): It is different, yes. It is like a practical fact, a practical fact, like a therapeutic fact.
Guido (in Italian) Yes. Let’s say, it’s not something that cures.
Man 1 (in Italian): I understand.
Guido (in Italian): It just shifts the energy, but the problem remains, the tension remains.
Shri Mataji: Now, by this happening, by this happening this fontanel bone area opens out, what we call baptism.
So the subtle energy which is all around us – this is the one you felt just now, the all-pervading power - that you get in contact with. And all the time it starts flowing in you, then there’s no question of getting sick.
Guido (in Italian): While instead, through the awakening of the Kundalini, the opening occurs here, at the top of the head, where the fontanel bone is. And at that moment we activate a connection with this all-pervading power, which is an inexhaustible source of energy. This is why we are cured and we cannot even get sick.
Man 2: It’s very difficult to find, to localize centers in the brain. Also for me, anatomically it’s very difficult.
Shri Mataji: No. Anatomically it’s not...
Man 2: It’s very difficult to localize.
Shri Mataji: Yes. The thing is...
Man 2: You know where are the centers.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I know. I know where they are. Because through meditative process you can also know where the centres are. Because when the Kundalini is rising, sometimes it stops at a point. You see, supposing it stops say, here.
Man 2: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You see, the center in the optic chiasma where they cross each other is...
Man 2: Is the optical here, the optic center, is?
Shri Mataji: What’s he saying?
Guido (in Italian): So, the question – let me summarize for a moment...
Warren: Let’s let him just translate.
Guido (in Italian): The question was that it is very difficult for medical science to locate, for example, the centers in the brain.
Shri Mataji: Have you got some books on Sahaja Yoga?
Guido (in Italian): And Shri Mataji says that for Her it is very easy, because...
Shri Mataji: Something just...
Guido (in Italian): ... through this meditative process, when the Kundalini rises, if there is a problem in a certain center, the Kundalini stops at that point and starts pulsating and indicating which center is not functioning. For example, here where there is the optic chiasm, there are these two sympathetic channels that cross at the pineal and the pituitary.
Man 1 (in Italian): I don’t know if the professor said something I wanted to say before he spoke. I know that gentleman. The professor is a great doctor and a great anatomist, and so I would like him to ask questions in the same way that the Lady can ask him.
Guido: The professor is a great doctor, a great anatomist, and...
Shri Mataji: Anatomically, as you said that - as you said is correct, that anatomically you cannot locate it if you open it out. Because these are centers of energy. And you cannot locate energy with your eyes, you see. But its action you can see when the Kundalini moves, it stops at that point, you can see with naked eyes the pulsation on the sacrum bone, and also you can see on other centers.
Supposing somebody has a liver, say for example. If you see that person bending down, on the liver it will be pulsating there. Like a pulsation, regular pulsation. The sacrum bone also, like a heart, it starts moving.
Guido (in Italian): So, since these are subtle energy centers, if we dissect our physical body, of course we won’t be able to see them. However, the moment the Kundalini moves and stops, for example, at a particular center, then it starts revealing, let’s say, the extent of the malaise, just through pulsations that we can see with the naked eye. This happened precisely with a RAI (Italian national TV) journalist last year, and at a certain point the Kundalini rose up here to the Nabhi chakra and we saw this lump right in the back, which came out and started pulsating.
Shri Mataji: In some people, not in all, if your center - the solar plexus, as you know, is controlled by what we call as the Nabhi chakra,
is the one, the center which controls the solar plexus on the physical aspect. If it is caught, then you can see it.
Lady: (In Italian) Can I say something? Can I say something?
Guido (in Italian): Yes, one moment... (Voices overlapping) Yes. Now. For example, there is this chakra, the Nabhi chakra, which controls the solar plexus. And if there is a problem in this center, you will easily see the Kundalini, when it stops, see this pulsation. Right here, at the spine.
Lady (in Italian): I wanted to ask the Lady simply one thing: when one reaches this power, and finds this strength, this power within oneself: how does one then behave towards the problems of life that always exist, how does one overcome them? Because it is not that one can overcome them only with our internal power, right? We must, so to speak, confront the problems that surround us. And so, what do we do? What does one do, does one abandon the problems, does the adoration and lets go of everything, or how does one face them? Because one must live day by day.
Guido: Once one has achieved this power and this state, how will he manage towards life, in the daily life? He just forgets everything, or...
Shri Mataji: No, no. You become really dynamic.
Guido (in Italian): He becomes an extremely dynamic person.
Shri Mataji: But you have to little bit understand about your own mechanism.
Guido (in Italian): But he must also acquire some knowledge of his own mechanism, let’s say.
Lady (in Italian): Yes.
Shri Mataji: So, say, for example, you will know on your fingertips, these are the fingertips, which become sensitive and you start feeling on your fingertips, what’s the problem is. Now these are five centers, this is six and seven. These are seven centers which start decoding on your, you start getting messages on your fingertips.
Guido (in Italian): And for example, through the fingers of your hands, in a way you will be able to decode the messages that these centers send you, that is, you will start recognizing the centers on your fingertips, for example located here on the hand. And you will be able to know clearly which are the centers, for example, that are not functioning well inside you and correct them.
Lady (in Italian): But these are all internal things. I want to know the behaviour with the external world which surrounds us, with which we always have to deal. We cannot all go to Her house and go... (inaudible 43.33).
Guido (In Italian): Yes. Yes. (In English) She wants to know about the behaviour towards the outside world.
Lady (in Italian): Do these problems not exist anymore, or do they still exist?
Shri Mataji: Oh, yes, yes. Now, you see, when you establish yourself fully as the Spirit, the behaviour towards others is that you become aware, you become aware, it’s not just a mental concept, but you become aware on your central nervous system that you are part and parcel of the whole, they are all within us.
Who is the other?
Guido (in Italian): So, once you have achieved this identification with the Spirit, this kind of awareness is triggered within you, which is not simply a projection of the mind: it is something real, something actual. And, in this awareness, you will realize that you are an integral part of the whole, of this universe, of this world.
Man (in Italian): What is the Mother’s position on the mystery of death? And does She envisage a successive life?
Guido: What is Your point of view on the mystery of death, and do You expect another life after death?
Shri Mataji: Then, yes. You see, say, if you are not a realized soul, when you are not a realized soul, it depends on what kind of a quality of life you have had. Accordingly, you get your second birth. Like supposing you are just a mediocre in life, and didn’t think of something of an extreme nature, so you can be born as anything ordinary. But if you are an extreme type, supposing somebody is an evil man, a very evil person, you see, he would like to be born as again a very evil person, because he wants to satisfy his evil within him. And there’s a saint, he would like to be born the way he can help the whole world, for a beneficiation of the whole world. So it depends on the quality of a person one is, first of all.
Guido (in Italian): So, Shri Mataji is saying that, basically, this process of reincarnation depends on the quality of life that we have maintained during this period, let’s say. Therefore, a mediocre person will probably reincarnate as a mediocre person, just as a person who is a little satanic, diabolical, will reincarnate again with this problem, in an attempt to fulfil certain unfulfilled desires. Just as a great saint will reincarnate as a saint, with the desire, let’s say, to...
(Audio interruption)
Lady: ... continue, for someone I don’t know, if it’s a curse.
Guido: It is an eternal curse?
Shri Mataji: No, no. After Self-realization, everything is over. Then it is your own decision, if you want to be born again. In India, a person who is not a realized soul, we do not bury it in the Mother Earth, we burn it. But if he is a realized soul only, then we bury.
Guido (in Italian): And so, after Self-realization all this comes to an end. And of course it depends on our desire if we want to reach this condition of rebirth. And, in India, the tradition is that only the realized souls are buried in the earth, while all the other people are burned (cremated).
Warren: Can you rise above the evil that you’ve done? I think she’s saying.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, that’s what you mean.
Oh, of course, you see, of course. You see, here is the center now. I will discuss about Christ now, because there are many other centers, but I’ll tell you about the center of Christ, which is the gate to enter into the limbic area, into the, we call as the kingdom of God, you can call it. So this is the center which is crossed like this, like a cross, He’s there. Now what happens when He is awakened, the end of these have got one side is the ego, and another side is the superego. Two balloon-like things come up on the head, and that’s how we develop “I am this, I am that”, separateness.
Guido (in Italian): And so, this center we can say where Christ resides, who said: “I am the gate and I am the way, I am the narrow gate”, at this center, where these two channels cross, this cross is formed - these two balloons originate there, these two bags that are called ego and superego, which represent precisely our conditioning – the superego – and our...
Shri Mataji: One has the conditioning, the superego has the conditioning within us, and the ego has the idea that I’ve done this work, good or bad, you see. So all these things just are sucked in, like that. And the whole thing opens out.
Guido (in Italian): And so, these two balloons, when they are too inflated, preclude any possibility of connection with the whole. So, these conditionings and this ego, which is what makes us feel like those who act, who do things, who are important, etc., once this center is illuminated, let’s say, it automatically sucks in a bit these two bags and therefore the opening is possible towards this new connection.
Shri Mataji: And then, you develop a soft bone here like a child, like a child you develop a soft bone, and like animals don’t feel they have done anything evil, in the same way, there’s no more of that. That’s why they said He died for our sins, you know.
Lady: Can you ask the Lady: at a certain point You said that the people who realize themselves, who realize this, if they reach their realization, they are considered - how to say - I don’t say as saints, but still as successful, right? And these are buried into the earth. The others are burned. Who judges these things, in an absolute way? Who is this judge who is so sure?
Guido: The lady is asking, who will judge those who have to be buried and those who have to be burned? (...)
Shri Mataji: You see, the judgment comes that when we get realization, you see, you become the absolute, the Spirit. Then these vibrations tell you who is a realized soul, who is not.
Guido (in Italian): Now, once we have got the realization, through this new awareness, which is a vibratory awareness, we finally have the possibility to establish who is a realized soul and who is not.
Shri Mataji: And there are also written down, what are the signs of a person who is a realized soul. His behaviour, his life is very different from others.
Guido: (in Italian) And, let’s say, there are a few canons that describe what the behaviour is, what kind of life a realized soul has.
Shri Mataji: Like now, you have got lots of false people, false gurus who have come to be the best. And you can’t know, because you do not know how to judge a person.
Guido (in Italian): For example now we have had this inflation of false gurus in the West, and we have no criteria to establish who are the good ones and who are the false ones. We don’t know how to recognize them.
Shri Mataji: The first thing is that you cannot take money for this work. This is spontaneous, this is automatic, it’s divine. You can’t take money for this.
Guido (in Italian): The easiest thing, for example, is to understand that for this work, which is a divine work, a living work, you cannot ask for money.
Man 1 (in Italian): Listen, I would like to ask a specific question.
Guido: (in Italian) Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): But I would like the Great Mother to be kind enough to answer me with a yes or a no, to some specific question. All right. The first is this. Rational philosophy says that before us there is nothing, and after us there is nothingness. Instead, is She certain that after death something happens, there is a survival, even if unconscious, of the personality?
Guido: He would like just to have an answer, yes or no, about this question.
Shri Mataji: Open the door, so that more air passes. Yes. Yes.
Guido: So the rational philosophy said that before, before the life and after death, there is nothing.
Man: Do you agree with this?
Guido: Do You agree?
Shri Mataji: What? After death, after life, who says...
Guido: Before life, the rational philosophy.
Shri Mataji: Russians have still to learn a lot.
Guido: Rational, rational.
Shri Mataji: Rational? Oh, rationality is very limited.
Guido (in Italian): Rationality is very limited. It is something very limited.
Man 1 (in Italian): So She believes in reincarnation.
Guido: So, You believe in the reincarnation.
Shri Mataji: Yeah, you see, rationality cannot reach very far.
Guido (in Italian): Rationality cannot go very far.
Man 1 (in Italian) Okay. But this is the specific question: does She believe in reincarnation?
Gregoire (in Italian): She said “Yes”.
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): Here it is, she believes in reincarnation.
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): Now. Believing in reincarnation, of course She thinks it’s all unconscious, we may have already reincarnated forty-two times.
Guido (in Italian): Yes. (In English) So, by believing in the reincarnation, maybe we could have been already reincarnated many times.
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course, you have! You have, you have been seekers in your previous lives. That’s how you got it so fast.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji says that we have been, we have reincarnated many times, and we have been great seekers in our past lives. That is why we have got our realization so quickly now, as she has got it before.
Lady (in Italian): So, every life is a step forward towards evolution and final liberation.
Guido: Is every life a step forward towards our realization?
Shri Mataji: Can’t say, depends on how you lead your life. You might be going forward, backwards.
Guido (in Italian): It depends a little on how we have led our lives, we can advance or we can also go backwards.
Lady (in Italian): It always repeats the same...(indistinct word).
Shri Mataji: But it makes no difference now. Whatever is the past, forget it.
Guido (in Italian): Now, after realization, the past is automatically erased. It has no more influence or importance.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I wanted to ask: is your belief all based on Yoga, and do you consider yourself the creator of a new Yoga method? Like for example Babaji, who did, he developed the “rebirthing” breathing, meaning rebirth?
Guido: He is saying that Your system which is based on Yoga, is a revolutionary system, is something new, like – he’s talked about Babaji, who has made some respiratory technique.
Shri Mataji: No, no. They are all, you see, it is a very old system in India. It has been a very old system. But the thing was that it was not so effective. As any discovery is in the beginning is just, you can say that on every tree there are, can be only one flower to begin with. But today the time is such that there is a blossom time. So it’s working so fast.
Guido (in Italian): So, it is something that has its roots in the millenary tradition, but it has now reached this evolution, this process – a stage where, let’s say, the blossoming, the blossoming time has arrived, whereas before there were only one or two flowers on this big tree. Now the time has come, the time is ready, let’s say, it has arrived, for this blossoming en-masse.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Her creed is based on Yoga.
Lady: She doesn’t reply to questions.
Guido: He wants to know if Your system is based on Yoga.
Shri Mataji: Yoga means union. Of course you have got the union with the Divine. So Yoga means the same thing.
Guido (in Italian): Yoga means union, union with the Divine.
Shri Mataji: But if he is meaning Hatha yoga, then I’ll explain.
Guido (in Italian): It should not be confused with Hatha Yoga, maybe, which are simply physical postures, etc.
Shri Mataji: Yes, same thing. It is in the, you see, in the olden times in India the students used to live with a teacher and they lived like brothers and sisters. It was called as a university, you can say. And then there they used to pick up some children only for this realization, very few. And then they would teach them how to develop their different chakras and all that slowly, slowly. But now in Sahaja Yoga also we use an asana, sometimes supposing there’s a, say, the center heart, what we call chakra, which looks after the, what you call that?
Warren: Antibodies.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Warren: Antibodies.
Shri Mataji: Antibodies. No, not antibodies, I mean the chakra, the plexus name is the heart, solar plexus...
Guido: Cardiac plexus.
Warren: Cardiac.
Guido: Cardiac plexus.
Shri Mataji: Cardiac. Cardiac plexus. The cardiac plexus, if it is out of order, then we have to do a certain asana, a kind of an asana for it to open out physically. So if there is such a problem then we do it. But it’s scientific, it’s not like taking all the medicines, you see. It is whatever is needed for a particular center, that if it is needed physically, we do it. But this today’s Yoga is that you do all kinds of exercises without understanding. It’s indiscriminate.
Guido (in Italian): Yes. For example, we do not do positions indiscriminately.
Simply, if there is a need, for example, if there is a disorder in this cardiac plexus, there are particular positions we can suggest, but certainly we cannot, for example, take a pill for the liver if we have a headache, or vice versa.
And Shri Mataji says that, in the past, there were disciples who lived in community with their preceptor, their teacher, and among these only a very few were then chosen who were brought forward in this knowledge of the chakras etc., towards Self-realization. And, therefore, this is Hatha Yoga: the Hatha Yoga positions, the asanas, are something that is recommended specifically, when there is a need...
Lady (in Italian): It is a physical Yoga that...
Man 2 (in Italian): There are no rituals.
Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?
Man 2: You have no rituals, you have necessity for positions.
Shri Mataji: There is no need for...?
Man 2 (in Italian): Your positions are not rituals...
Shri Mataji: No, this is spontaneous.
Man 2 (in Italian): ... They have a physical purpose, let’s say, [Man 1:I “Indicative”], for the heart, etc.
Guido: It’s... No...
Gregoire: He says the positions in Your Yoga are not according to rituals, but necessity.
Shri Mataji: Necessity, yes. Just like a doctor, you can understand.
Man 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I understand.
Shri Mataji: And also when it moves, you see, unless and until the Kundalini moves upwards, you don’t know where is the obstruction.
Man 2: Yes. I think that in Europe we think that your position are more rituals, than...
Shri Mataji: It is more, you see, the understanding of this thing is like [Man 2: “Yes. Yes. Yes”] you see, you are your own doctor, you do your own diagnosis and you treat yourself.
Man 2: Yes. Yes.
Shri Mataji: It’s like this.
Guido (in Italian): So in Sahaja Yoga, everything is done in the light of this new awareness where we become our own doctors, our own physicians, because we know, we are aware of our system and we know where the blockages are, we know how to cure them etc.
Shri Mataji: When the Kundalini moves, you see, you understand where it has stopped, but it must first move. Otherwise how do you know where it has stopped?
Man 2: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Guido (in Italian): And so, when the Kundalini moves, and it stops for example at a certain center, we know exactly which center it has stopped at, and so we can take action, let's say, in this case. It is not simply doing gymnastics or doing exercises like that.
Man (In Italian): You, the followers, should all be long-lived.
Guido: So all Your followers are supposed to be, have a long life.
Shri Mataji: Yogis, yogis, of course!
Now in India, in the Delhi University, they have prescribed that a person who has passed the MBBS, the graduation, can do his doctorate in medicine, in Sahaja Yoga. And they have found out as a research that the people who are Sahaja Yogis, like he is, have better resistance, skin resistance, have better heart, teeth, balance, their nerves are better, and they behave in a manner as if they are much younger in age than their own age. So they are all doing the research there,
and they can get doctorate of medicine.
Guido (in Italian): Now, for example, at the University of Delhi, a course has been opened for graduates who have already graduated in medicine, to have a specialization, a doctorate, in Sahaja Yoga. And they have already discovered that Sahaja Yogis, that is, those who practice and follow Shri Mataji, have for example a higher resistance to physical fatigue, for example, they have more elastic skin, they have a more resistant heart...
Shri Mataji: Lots of problems... Heart, heart improves.
Guido (in Italian): ... stronger nerves.
Shri Mataji: Now, blood pressure is normal. You see, some people have... For, this is a doctor now here. He had a very high blood pressure. His high blood pressure is absolutely normal now.
All problems, you see, so many troubles get cured. Even cancer is cured by Sahaja Yoga. If you maintain the practice of Sahaja Yoga, you can get your cancer cured completely.
Guido (in Italian): For example Shri Mataji says that, precisely, through the practice of Sahaja Yoga, any type of physical problem can be cured, even the most serious problems. And She has given the example of Dr. Warren, who is a famous Australian doctor, who had heart problems, circulation problems, high blood pressure, who is now very normal, and leads an efficient and dynamic life.
Shri Mataji: Now, this lady was... The doctor said she cannot have a child in any way. She cannot have a child.
And she didn’t have a child for three years or so after her marriage. With Sahaja Yoga practice, now she has a nice little baby.
Guido (in Italian): For example, in the case of this lady from Switzerland, the doctors had diagnosed that she would not be able to have children. But after Sahaja Yoga, within a couple of years, she had a beautiful baby.
Shri Mataji: Now I’ll explain how it works out. That would be better. In a very simple language, very simple language.
Guido (in Italian): Now Shri Mataji would like to simply explain, in a few words, how this mechanism works.
Man 1 (in Italian): Very well. Very well.
Shri Mataji: You see, in a very simple language, so that even if you are not doctors, you’ll understand.
Guido (in Italian): In a very simple, synthetic way.
Shri Mataji: You see, like a center is here, like this, say, and this is the vertebrae, say for example, and this is the center in between. And this is the left side sympathetic, this is the right side sympathetic.
Guido (in Italian): So, assuming this is the center, and this is the right sympathetic nervous system and the left sympathetic nervous system – here are the vertebrae...
Shri Mataji: Now, this center, say, is looking after this side and this side, supplying for the activity of the sympathetic.
Guido (in Italian): And, therefore, these two sides supply energy to the sympathetic activity.
Shri Mataji: According to Sahaja Yoga, the right side looks after the physical and the mental side, and the left side, the emotional side. Of course, doctors don’t discriminate, but we do.
Guido (in Italian): And so, according to Sahaja Yoga, the right side supplies energy for all physical and mental activity, while the left side supplies energy for emotional, emotional activity.
Shri Mataji: So, you see, according to Sahaja Yoga, this center, say, starts going too much on the right side, working too much on the right side, say, for example, or left side, anyway. Too much energy is extracted from a particular center.
Guido (in Italian): And so a condition of disequilibrium can be created, when there is an excess of activity on one side or the other, so that the center naturally goes “off center”.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I am completely out of center ... (Laughter)
Guido: He says he is completely out of center.
Shri Mataji: (Laughing) No, no. You are not (Laughing). I thought he went there (laughing 1.04.50). Now, what happens that, when this center goes overactive with the energy, it starts slipping down from each other, you see, and loses the control with the whole, because the spinal cord, it loses the center.
Guido (in Italian): And so, when there is an excess of activity on one side or the other, there is a little bit of a detachment of what is the appropriate activity of this center, and so there is a disconnection.
Shri Mataji: Now, doctors accept... yes.
Guido (in Italian): And then we lose connection with the whole.
Shri Mataji: The doctors accept that there is a triggering agent, they call it protein 52 or 58, that actually comes from the left side.
Guido (in Italian): So, the doctors said that there is something that works in this system that they call Protein 52, or 58.
Shri Mataji: That means according to us, it is a psychosomatic disease, which has something to do with psyche, according to us.
Guido (in Italian): And so these proteins are usually the ones that act along the left channel and cause cancer.
Shri Mataji: So that comes from the psyche, that problem.
Guido (in Italian): For us, however, it is simply a psychosomatic problem, therefore something that comes from our psyche.
Shri Mataji: So first you are vulnerable to cancer, and then when it is triggered, it becomes separated.
Guido (in Italian): And so, first, naturally a certain vulnerability is created within us, a predisposition towards this attack of cancer.
Shri Mataji: And the energy...
Guido: (Finishes the translation) Then the disconnection takes place. (To Shri Mataji) Sorry.
Shri Mataji: And then it starts working on its own, you see, because it has no connection with the whole. So it becomes malignant.
Guido: (In Italian) And so, once you lose this connection with the whole, this integration if you like, the disconnected parts begin to act on their own.
Warren: And it becomes malignant.
Guido: (In Italian) And it becomes something malignant.
Shri Mataji: And then, when the Kundalini rises, she, like a string in the pearls, you see, it just brings it back in one line.
Guido (in Italian): And so, when the Kundalini rises, it acts a bit like the thread of a necklace, which has to sew, pass again through the center and slowly bring back...
Shri Mataji: And also gives energy there.
Guido (in Italian): And of course it provides energy to this center, fresh, vital energy.
Man 1 (in Italian): From the lady’s exposition, it all seems clear to me. Because I understand well what she said now: when an imbalance occurs, naturally those become malignant cells, let’s call them like that, and therefore they can degenerate. It seems logical, rational, understandable to me. So, all this can be repaired by this Yoga system, right?
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): I must say, from my personal experience as a listener, that I have always heard good opinions about this Yoga. And I also know of people who have had some effects. However, in practice, when I ask where this thing is, you end up with people who improvise... Now, since it is a serious thing, I would almost say a discipline, why can’t we have some practical indications? For example, the lady is in Milan. To be able to say: the one who practices this thing is this. That is, a true indication.
Guido (in Italian): It is there, it is there. It is there. It is there.
Yogini (in Italian): There is, there is that.
Guido (in Italian): Everything is there.
Yogini (in Italian): Everything is there.
Man 1 (in Italian): Ah, it is there?
Guido: He says that he believes very much in what You say, Your exposition was very clear. And he wants... Yes.
(Man 1 talks aside with yogini)
Man 1 (in Italian): Centers.
Yogini (in Italian): Centers. Centers of Sahaja Yoga in Milan... (Indistinct aside conversation)
Guido: And he wants to have...
Shri Mataji: Permanent.
Guido: Yes, he wants to know where Your centers are [Shri Mataji: “Yes”], to have a better discrimination against the fake guru, and the fake teachings.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): How do you keep these pearls of the necklace together? How do you create this force that gives this balance? What is the method? I...
Gregoire: It’s a very pertinent question, Shri Mataji. He said, “How do you keep all the pearls on the thread? From where does this strength come, which can awaken this energy?”.
Shri Mataji: In me?
Guido: No, in a person, in a common person.
Lady: Anyone.
Shri Mataji: Because you are made like that. You become one with the whole, you see, the energy is a subtle, like a ether, a subtle energy of all-pervading power. And you become one with that, and it starts flowing like one, with the connection with the whole as you get it.
Guido (in Italian): So, we were created, conceived like this. And so, once we have this connection with this all-pervading energy, which permeates the entire cosmos, as well as the ether, then...
Shri Mataji: You see, you have to keep your connection proper, because it should not be loose connection.
Guido (in Italian): So, it is essential to keep our connection always active. We must not lose this connection with the whole.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Exactly, but how do you do it...?
Guido: And how - he is asking - how do we keep the connection?
Shri Mataji: That’s what one has to little bit pay attention for about, at the most for a week or so, they can tell you how to do it. It’s little working it out.
Guido (in Italian): And so, by following for a week, more or less, some instructions that we can give you at our centers, then you will be explained how to keep this connection active.
Lady: I have three questions to ask the Great Mother. First, when did you discover that, and you were so sure that you are right, I mean. First question...
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.
Lady: Second one...
Warren: Wait.
Guido (in Italian): Let’s have one at a time.
Shri Mataji: Yes, all right.
Guido (in Italian): The lady asked...
Lady: First question is...
Shri Mataji: You see, there is a...
Lady (in Italian): I have asked...
Shri Mataji: I was born like that. From my childhood, I knew I had a mission. And I was quite aware myself. As we are aware we are human beings, I was aware this is my job. That’s one point.
Lady: Okay. All right.
Guido (in Italian): So, the lady asked when did Shri Mataji develop, discover this system and when did She discover that it worked. And Shri Mataji has said that She was born like this, She was born with this power, with this peculiarity, and She became aware of it.
Lady (in Italian) My question was when did she actually become aware that she was the depositary of something so important?
Guido: When did You become aware that you had within You this power...?
Shri Mataji: Oh, you see, I was quite aware that I was a realized soul myself, and that I was connected, I was aware of that from my very childhood. But I knew also that I have to make an en-masse happening.
Guido: (In Italian) So, Shri Mataji was aware of Her condition as a realised soul from Her early childhood, but what She wanted to conceive was this system to be able to give realisation to the masses, at a mass level.
Shri Mataji: So, you see, in my own meditative method, I tried to find out what’s the problem with human beings, why can’t we do it en-masse salvation (1.12.26).
Guido (in Italian): And so, the first thing he tried to focus on in his meditations is what is wrong with human beings, and how to achieve en-masse realisation.
Shri Mataji: What are the permutations and combinations we can work out, so it becomes an en-masse happening.
Guido (in Italian): And so She tried to set up all the various combinations and possibilities to be able to carry out this type of realization on a mass scale.
Shri Mataji: So for quite some time in my life I worked out - I was married, I had children, but still I was working internally to find out what the problem is, why can’t we have an en-masse happening.
Guido (in Italian): And so, even though she led a normal life, let’s say, as a married woman, mother of two daughters, wife of a diplomat etc., She always tried to develop this system within Herself to give realization on a mass level.
Shri Mataji: And my father was also a realized soul, and he knew about my mission. And he used to say that, ‘You should try to find out a medium by which you can give an en-masse realization’.
Guido (in Italian): And Her father himself, who was a realized soul, advised Her since childhood to work in a way on this project to find a method to give en-masse realization.
Shri Mataji: So, I would say, now I’m 64 years of age or something, I’m 64 years of age, and at the age of what - ‘70, 1970, on the 5th of May, I could achieve that.
Guido (in Italian): And so Shri Mataji, who is now sixty-four years old, on May 5, 1970, managed to put in place this revolutionary system, if you like.
Lady: I think it’s better if I put the question in Italian, so that people can understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes.
Lady: So. (In Italian) I understand that this method of hers is more of a preventive method than a curative one, because once the person is ill, it seems to me that – if it is a light illness, she probably intervenes for a heart failure or something else, I don’t know.
But if they are degenerative illnesses like cancer etc., it seems to me that I don’t know if the lady can intervene. So this – since preventive intervention is so important, I believe that, with such a fundamental intervention for the well-being of humanity, all of us who were able to succeed in perfecting the realization of this Self of ours, and then offer it to others, we should dedicate our entire life so that humanity would be in good health and happy, at this point. And it would be very easy, it seems a bit too simplistic to me. So this is...
Gregoire: She says, “Your method is more preventive than curative, because through this method, evil cannot succeed. So, if this is so, then it’s such an important thing for mankind that ...
Shri Mataji: Of course!
Gregoire: ... we ought to dedicate our whole life to it...
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course!
Gregoire: ... but I think the whole thing sounds a little bit too simple to me. Why doesn’t it happen?”
Shri Mataji: You see, how did we become human beings from amoeba? Very simple.
Guido (in Italian): So, the question is this: how did we become human from the primordial state of amoeba? In a very spontaneous way.
Shri Mataji: You see, this means whatever is vital has to be simple.
Guido (in Italian): So, everything that is vital has to be simple.
Shri Mataji: You see, supposing for our breathing, we had to go to library to find out how to breathe, we would be dead, all of us (Shri Mataji laughs).
Guido (in Italian): So, for example, if in order to breathe we had to do, I don’t know, strange exercises, go through strange things for something so simple, what would happen?
Shri Mataji: The time has come. Actually, the time has come.
Guido (in Italian): The fact is that the time is ripe for this event.
Man (in Italian): This is true.
Shri Mataji: That’s why. It’s the maturity has arrived. The flowers are ready. The wind has to blow. That’s all. Finished.
Lady: So many prophets - I mean, Christ said that the time has come. And look where the world is now! So...
Shri Mataji: Yes, maybe. Maybe they were not real prophets, maybe. But it’s true that the time has come, the flowers are ready, and you are to be transformed. After all, God has to look after this world.
Guido (in Italian): And so the time has come, the times are ready, they are ripe, and the wind must blow and this flowering must take place now.
Man 1 (in Italian): Now I am going to ask a very down-to-earth question. Tell her and translate these.
Guido: He is making a question, very...
Gregoire: Down to earth.
Guido: Down to earth.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): I would like to say this, I don’t know if I interpret the thoughts of all the listeners. At least I, personally, am fascinated by the way the lady presents, how she explains and how she rationalizes everything also to us, talking about a subject that is basically very fideistic.
Guido: He is absolutely fascinated by the way You are exposing and You are explaining the whole thing.
Man 1 (in Italian): But we come from a Catholic culture, from a Catholic education. So, this faith of ours – I’m saying this, for now let’s leave aside the individual question of whether I believe or I don’t believe – but in this country the Catholic culture leads us from childhood to the observance of certain rites, so that we reach a maturation in adolescence by which we can personally say: “I believe, I don’t believe, etc.”. And so this is, let’s say, one part.
Guido: But in our background we achieve certain things, and we arrive at the adolescent age that certain conditionings are already built within us. And at a certain point we have to decide whether we want to accept or not a certain ritual, certain things from the Catholic Church.
Shri Mataji: No, you need not accept anything.
Guido: He has not finished, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Oh, not finished, oh, I see.
Man 1 (in Italian): The question that my colleague Battaglia asked is very simple, and it is the same question I would like to ask.
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Man 1 (in Italian): We are fascinated, as I told you. We would like to cling to the way how to be able to... When we go to the doctor, they tell us: “For arteriosclerosis, you try not to eat fat, do not consume sugar, do not do this, do not do that”. Here Battaglia says: “I would like to know how I can bring these things into balance”. Why is there no possibility of telling us - who are uncultured about this topic - how we should do it? And not in an abstract way, but in a concrete way...
Guido: (In Italian) Practical.
Man 1 (in Italian): ... practical, to grab, to be able to weld these two rings.
Shri Mataji: It’s the practical side.
Guido: He wants to know about the practical side, how to achieve it practically.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. That is, you see, that is actually absolutely grows by itself, within yourself. Once it is excited - now, this lady is not feeling it now. It’s all right, but she’ll feel it very soon. Because she has a little problem, say here, on the Vishuddhi Chakra as we call it. So the hands are not sensitive, so she is not feeling it.
But once this gets cured - because I think you have to talk too much in the interviews, maybe, that might be one of the reasons - she will get all right. So it is spontaneous. It works automatically. But you need a little help from a person who knows. Now, for example, he knows about it. But he is another Italian and we have many Italians. He is Swiss and we have people say, in Bolivia, we have people from everywhere, of every age group, and they all have picked it up in no time, because it is inside yourself growing!
Guido (in Italian): So, it is a mechanism that has now triggered and it is a growth that takes place, a maturation that takes place slowly, slowly. And so, as far as the techniques or the knowledge of these techniques are concerned, it is something that is acquired, let’s say, very easily and smoothly. Just as it happened for us, who perhaps did not know anything about chakras, energy, etc. when we approached Sahaja Yoga; and then we have acquired this knowledge.
Shri Mataji: That’s it. And moreover, we have a center in Milano, we have a center in Rome.
Guido (in Italian): So, we have Sahaja Yoga centers established in Milan, Rome, Venice and then all over the world.
Man 1 (in Italian): Where a practical therapy is done, let’s say, about these things.
Guido (in Italian): Yes, let’s say that the practical aspect, the practical application is done of these Sahaja Yoga techniques.
Shri Mataji: All over, all over, all over the world we have.
Man 1 (in Italian): Now I’m going to ask another question. Is it necessary, let’s say, to adhere to the ideology of the lady, so that the effectiveness of Yoga is regular? Or can one practice Yoga and achieve the benefits even without having faith in these things?
Guido: Can they benefit of this Yoga without having the shraddha, without having the faith in You?
Shri Mataji: Oh, you’ll have (She laughs).
Guido (in Italian): She is saying: “It will happen, maybe automatically”.
Shri Mataji: See, because just now you said you have sympathy for me. So if it is so, I give it to you.
Man 1 (in Italian): So the effectiveness of the treatment itself makes you feel gratitude, to faith.
Guido (in Italian): In a way. The very fact that you feel sympathy for the Lady is positive.
Shri Mataji: Yes. It is so joy-giving that you feel the oneness, you see.
Guido (in Italian): It’s something so rewarding, so joyful, that automatically...
Man 1 (in Italian): One is led to adhere to that thing.
Shri Mataji: Everything automatic - everything automatic - your habits drop out, you become very powerful, everything automatic.
Guido (in Italian): And so it’s all automatic, natural, effortless.
Man 1 (in Italian): The last question, very banal.
Guido (in Italian): Yes.
Other man (in Italian): Is the red mark she wears meaning or decorative?
Guido: The tikka that You have in Your forehead, is it emblematic...
Shri Mataji: It’s for married ladies.
Guido (in Italian): This is worn by married ladies, in India.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): Last question, because I have to leave, I have to go there to work.
Guido: He has to go to work.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): The last time in Milan, you put your hands on me and immediately discovered my weak points.
Guido: The last time in Milano, when you saw him, you found out immediately what are his weakness points.
(Shri Mataji laughs)
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): I would like to know: what are your powers? Also because, when I called Alganesh, I was worried.
I said: “Let’s hope it won’t rain”. Alganesh told me with certainty: “When the Great Mother arrives, it doesn’t rain”. I would like to know what these powers are, with this certainty.
Guido: He would like to know something about Your powers, because he phoned Alganesh, and Alganesh told him: “When Shri Mataji comes, it will not rain”. So, how does she get this security? What are Your powers?
Shri Mataji: Because, you see, they have experienced. You see, the thing is they have experienced.
Guido (in Italian): Because Alganesh and we have made the experience.
Shri Mataji: You see, whatever I say how it happens, so she has experienced. So because of experience, once you have the experience of it again and again, then you have to have faith in me. Can you take my photograph from my purse, is there.
Guido (in Italian): And so, when we have had the experience, and we have the proof that what Shri Mataji says is true and it happens, then from that we can have certainty.
Shri Mataji: I’ll give you an example. All right.
Guido (in Italian): Now I’ll give you an example.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): No, sorry, this is important: she says that (unclear words) the possibility to change the weather! (1.24.52)
Shri Mataji: Really, I was once – once I was just speaking in a village, you see? And I see many things that you don’t see, for example.
Guido (in Italian): For example, Shri Mataji has the possibility to see many things that we cannot see. She was once giving a lecture in a village in India.
Shri Mataji: So, you see, I knew what was happening, but somebody started taking photographs and they got the photographs of the light falling on my head, seven photographs falling on my head, in the photograph.
Guido (in Italian): And so there were many people, unaware photographers taking photographs. And Shri Mataji knew what was happening at that time.
Shri Mataji: And I was just laughing, I knew that, so I put my hand like this also.
Guido (in Italian): And at a certain point Shri Mataji began to smile. She put Her hand like this. And a light remained impressed on the photos, a light that was coming from above and that was directed towards Her. A light that we could not see with our naked eye.
Shri Mataji: Now, on this photograph, they saw it, many photographs like this. There’s one photograph these people took in... You tell in Italian, what happened. They went to Zermatt.
Guido: Zermatt.
Shri Mataji: Where there is this...
Gregoire (in Italian): Ah, yes. It is a little story about Shri Mataji, to give an example that there are many extraordinary things that have happened. For example, my brother works in a bank in Geneva, a normal man, okay.
He goes to Zermatt... - it is normal for a Swiss to work in a bank (laughing) – he went to Zermatt and did a havan, which is a Vedic, very ancient fire ritual, but which was done according to the teachings of Shri Mataji.
And during this havan, he said the names of a deity who is called Ganesha in Sanskrit, who is the god with the head of an elephant, the god of innocence. From behind the Matterhorn, a cloud of 7 kilometers in diameter came out which was absolutely the face of an elephant.
You could see the trunk, you could see the two ears... Excuse me for disturbing you, but what can you do? We took the photos and in the photos you can see these things. It is a fact. We cannot say no, it happened and there are the photos.
Guido (in Italian): And there was also Shri Mataji’s face.
Gregoire: Eh?
Guido (in Italian): And Her face could also be seen in the clouds.
Shri Mataji: I think that even I was wearing a diamond ring, here. (1.27.32)
Gregoire (in Italian): And then, after this elephant, in the clouds, with the watermarks of the clouds, in the blue sky, you could see the face of Shri Mataji. But we did not bring this photo, because we (left?) from Geneva this morning, we did not know.
Shri Mataji: There is one photograph I’ve got, one photograph, how do you explain this one? One I’ve got, because they haven’t brought anything. They should have brought some books, but they live in, you see, third or fifth dimension (She laughs). No books, nothing.
Gregoire (in Italian): No, this is an example to say that many things happen which we think are impossible.
Shri Mataji: There are many photographs like this, you see, lights going, making all...
Guido: He’s got the pictures. He’s got the pictures.
Shri Mataji: He’s got?
Man: Yes.
Guido: He’s bringing the pictures.
Shri Mataji: No books, you said you have 500 books!
Yogi: Shri Mataji, I have the pictures, I have your pictures.
Shri Mataji: All right. But in good colour, one, and the book... Yes.
Yogi: No, this is ... (Inaudible).
Shri Mataji: That starts coming.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): It’s too late.
Shri Mataji: There are many experiences like this. The photograph, the camera is very honest.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And what is that light?
Shri Mataji: Very subtle.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And what is that light?
Guido: He’s asking what is this light.
Shri Mataji: This is the light of my heart, my love.
Guido (in Italian): It is the light of Her heart.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): So it will not rain today.
Guido: So he is asking: it will not rain today?
Shri Mataji: No, it won’t.
Man (in Italian): I don’t know.
Guido: It will not rain.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): She said she does not know.
Guido (in Italian): No, She said: “It will not rain”.
Shri Mataji: You don’t worry.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And if it should rain?
Guido (in Italian): She said not to worry.
Lady (in Italian): The “Canniccia” is very nice.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): And if it should rain? This is my problem.
(Laughter)
Man (in Italian): (Saint) Thomas!
Lady (in Italian): Man of little faith, you see: you do not believe, so it will rain! One has to believe in it.
Man (in Italian) So, is there more science or more faith in Your message?
Guido: In Your message, there is more science or more faith?
Shri Mataji: Everything.
Guido (in Italian): There is everything.
Shri Mataji: It’s integration. Science is also from the same. Science is what we discover. But from where it comes, the source is the same. Whether it is faith is also love. And science is also an expression of the same.
Guido (in Italian): It is an integration of the two, because science comes from what we can discover, and faith comes from love. So the two things come from the same source.
Shri Mataji: I’ll give you an example. I’ll give you an example. One day I said that carbon atom represents this Ganesha, this innocence, this carbon, see.
Guido (in Italian): So, Shri Mataji said that one day She revealed that the carbon atom represents this innocence of Shri Ganesha.
Shri Mataji: And on one side, if you put it, it looks like an OM, like an OM written down, if you take a photograph.
Guido: (In Italian) And a spectrographic examination has revealed that on one side it has an OM, that is, this sign...
Shri Mataji: And if you see from the other side, it gives you a swastika which is for construction, not for destruction. There’s two sides of swastika.
Guido: (In Italian) And if it is seen from the other side, instead, you can clearly see a swastika with its four filaments rotating clockwise, that is, in the constructive direction, not in the destructive direction as it was used in the Nazi era.
Shri Mataji: And if you see it from down below, you see it as a cross.
Guido: (In Italian) And if it is watched from bottom to top, there is a cross.
Shri Mataji: Now, they tried it, with a new method, of putting it into photograph. And they saw that, from the right side when they put it, they see the left side as OM, when they put it from the left side, they put it on the right side, the atom looks like a swastika.
Guido (in Italian): And so they tried to take pictures of this, and they realized that when they photograph the left side they actually get a reproduction of the right side and vice versa.
Shri Mataji: A very well-known scientist in America has done it.
Guido (in Italian): And this was done by American scientists.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): So, Great Mother...
Shri Mataji: Oh, thank you very much. Thank you very much for these things.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): If You give me some energy with Your hand...
Guido: He would like to have some energy from Your hand.
Shri Mataji: All right. Just little - because I thought of him, and that I should give him this.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): ... I’ll throw myself on the ground...
Shri Mataji: Should I give him now?
Guido: Yes, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: It’s all right. I’ve been thinking of you all the time.
Guido (in Italian): Shri Mataji said that She has been thinking a lot about you.
Romano Battaglia (in Italian): What?
Guido: (In Italian) Shri Mataji has been thinking a lot about you.
Shri Mataji: And I’ve got something little for you, to remind you of Me. I went to Austria, I just thought of you and I got something nice...
Guido: (In Italian) And when she was in Austria, he thought of bringing you a little present from Austria.
Shri Mataji: Very small thing.
Guido (in Italian): A very small thing.
Yogini (in Italian): But from the heart.
Romano Battaglia: (in Italian) Where were you?
Shri Mataji: Silent (1.32.33). Enjoy yourself.
Guido (in Italian): Enjoy yourself, within yourself.
Shri Mataji: See her on his head. You all can feel it, see? The cool breeze.
Guido (in Italian): You can all feel this breeze on her head, coming out of her head.
Shri Mataji: From her head. From her head.
Man (in Italian): With the left hand.
Lady (in Italian): Yes, it is true!
Other man (in Italian): This is very beautiful.
Lady (in Italian): Yes.
Shri Mataji: You can, very easily, yes. It’s clearly ... (indistinct word).
Lady (in Italian): No? Yes or no?
Shri Mataji: Ah, see now!
Lady (in Italian): It is true.
Lady (in Italian): Yes?
Lady (in Italian): Yes.
Shri Mataji: Very good. It’s there! The proof of the pudding is the eating, I mean (Shri Mataji laughs). Have you shown the photograph?
Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji, the picture is there.
Shri Mataji: Yes, there is a picture. Hi, here, this is one of them. You see, this is one of them. The picture.
Lady (in Italian): This is a...
[End of audio recording]